Wayne Arnold
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Posts posted by Wayne Arnold
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This. Though I'll admit the line between the two can be thin and blurry and it's hard to tell sometimes which side people are dancing on.
It seems to be Truth though, these days it's hard to point out personal responsibility which contributes to a situation without being tagged as "blaming the victim", a situation exacerbated by the fact that there is usually a good deal of actual "victim blaming" going on concurrently.
Good post.
I think you are lumping posters together who think she did something wrong (independently of Johnson doing something worse) and random posts that you feel implied that she deserved to be hit by Johnson. I say this because you respond to both the same way. I don't think I can explain it any more clearly than I and others have. There is a difference, but you don't seem to see it. Gotta admit I find your post kind of insulting, for that reason.
Not at all. That's not my intent, sorry if my posts somehow come across that way.
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Yes we do have to be literal, because not a single person excused the punch. But if Johnson stopped at the point of holding her wrist and then just pushed her away after she kneed and hit him, he'd be fine, and everyone would be talking about her being the instigator.
"No....he decked he because she raised her fist to him immediately and he grabbed her arm to prevent her swinging and she immediately swung with her other fist, followed immediately by his response. She started a sequence of events that would lead any reasonable person in that circumstance to conclude that it was to continue. Look at the video. She immediately took umbrage to him bumping into her and became aggressive. Add to that that she was probably drunk and you have a pretty good case of self defense, IMO."
That's just one example. There are others, including from one poster who called me a "white knight" for daring to defend this woman lol
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i didn't see anyone say that in this thread?
Point to one post on this thread where someone said that she deserved what she got
Do we have to be so literal? Let's not be naive here. There is a whole lotta 'she had it comin to her' mentality in this thread.
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So basically we gave away Stevie and threw in the Chiefs game for nothing?
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Just fwiw, has there been any other source besides the moron's lawyer who said the drunk girl dropped the N-bomb? I would never believe a lawyer right off the bat on something like that.
No.
It's sad that people in this thread are using his lawyer's claims as a fact to make the victim look like she deserved what she got but not at all surprising.
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I'm wondering how a thin black dude and chubby blonde girl ever got into it in the first place. This might be the first documented instance of discord between the two camps.
I don't think the tuck rule is applicable in US Courts, Matlock.
lol nicely done
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So you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he knew she was pointing with her thumb and not making a fist?
I'm pretty sure you have it backwards. Since Johnson is the one who invaded her space by grabbing her wrist, Johnson's lawyers have to prove that she was acting with the intent to harm him. And since her arm/fist never moved forward, that will be extremely difficult to do.
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He clutched her arm when she raised her fist. Then she hit him with her other fist.
So its your contention that the next time someone brushes passed me at a bar to get a drink that raising my fist and escalating the situation is both reasonable and self-defense? Have you ever been in a bar? Have you ever been in public?
So when a woman or anyone else raises her arm to point at the person behind her, it's officially open season on her face?
I can't wait for the next time a person waves at me. According to a couple of people on this forum I'm going to be within my legal right to grab his/her arm, clutch it until he/she is able to defend and get away then I'm going to bash his/her face in because it looked like the person was about to slap me!
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He shouldn't have hit a female. He deserves to be off the team.
But she punched him. Why is that ok? Because she's a female? If it was a male who punched him & he hit him back, that's cool right? Why is it ok for a female to go around punching people? If she's Ronda Rousey, is it ok?
He made his bed and did something dumb. But she face consequences too. Everyone is going to point to his upbringing. What about a sloppy drunk chick who thinks its ok to punch someone?
It's ok from a legal standpoint because she was acting in self-defense. Why is this so difficult for some of you to grasp? He was creating apprehension by invading her space in the form of reaching for her arm and clutching it against her will. By definition, that is assault. And that was before his punch even occurred.
Look - no one thinks this girl is an angel on Earth. My daughters are both under 5 but 15 years from now I'll show them this video as a demonstration for how to not act in bars.
And I think it speaks volumes that no one here has been able to give me an answer as to what she could possibly be charged with.
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I did, and that's what I was referring to.
Your gif does not show the events leading up to the altercation, and in no way disprove the point that she was the initiator of the altercation. It makes sense that you're looking at this from a "legal" standpoint. You're utilizing the classic lawyer maneuver of putting words in people's mouth by framing the argument in your context and hiding the full evidence. Johnson made a lot more contact with the girl on the left, and she had no problem with it.
Then post it. I didn't post a longer gif because I couldn't find one. Good Lord.
So because the other girl didn't have a problem with Johnson rudely shoving people out of his way to the bar, that means no one else should feel defensive or uncomfortable with it?
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Any reason you started the gif at the altercation and not just before? So much for being impartial.
Show the gif when both are walking up to the bar.
You don't have internet access? Find it yourself.
Well according to the legal beagles here, it's because she was illegally restrained and acting in self defense.
Yeah, imagine that.
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From a female perspective I think she should be held accountable for her actions just as he was. His reaction was unjustifiable and he was dealt with appropriately by the school IMO, and any charges forthcoming could hold further punishment. But I spent my 20s in bars where you get shoved around and there is very little space to be claimed. If she doesn't like it, she should stay out of those kinds of bars. I never felt the need to act like this girl when in that situation and she should face appropriate consequences as well. The argument I keep seeing is that if anyone says she should be held accountable too that somehow that means that person also feels she is "to blame" for the QB hitting her or that he was somehow justified. In reality, I haven't seen anyone say that, but rather that her actions were independently inappropriate. Some of the nastiest fights I have seen in bars have been between drunk girls. I don't care how big they are, they can get vicious. Was he scared for his life? I doubt it, but she did appear to try to go after him so of course he should have walked away but he didn't, and his natural reaction was to reciprocate. He's paying the price.
What consequences would be appropriate for her? Maybe she should be banned from the bar for being belligerent but that would be up to the owner(s). From this video alone, I see no illegal actions from her. Johnson, however, broke the law.
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Certainly not impartially. Johnson makes more contact with the girl on his left. The blond is the one who smashes into the bar, pushes the guy to her right which makes him turn around. Johnson doesn't push the blonde directly. He initiated contact trying to squeeze through to the open spot at the bar, which she was blocking. If she got upset at that common occurrence in a crowded bar, then she's the one that has issues. And that was clear with how quickly she turned around to confront him and instigate the altercation. There was no bartender in sight, so you can't argue that she was pointing to the invisible bartender. You also don't know what she was saying, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't to wish him luck on the season.
I think you need to look at it again if you think Johnson doesn't push the blond directly...right into the guy on her right. Which may be who she's pointing at (although there is in fact a bartender there). I'm not going to speculate what she's saying.
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Oh, you mean his attempt to slide by her, which was hindered by her excessive weight? I'm sure it wasn't the first time someone couldn't get by her, she should be used to it. Stop being a "White Knight" and watch what happened. If this was a guy, he would have been in jail right along with him.
I'm not going to go there.
Not being a "white knight" - I'm looking at the video impartially from a legal perspective.
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Except it's not what happened as per video. This is a polar opposite of the "she was wearing a short skirt" defense. This is a defense of a drunken aggressive female who gets a pass simply because she's a female.
To me that's what it looks like happened. Whether her little fist ball was her gearing up to punch him or her pointing back behind her toward the bartenders is irrelevant - he committed the first invasion of space between the two of them by grabbing her arm.
It's not like her hand was at her side and she was looking a different direction when he grabbed her wrist. Again, you are looking at this situation sober, and from a better perspective angle-wise than this 19 year old kid had.
Whether her hand was at her side or up toward her head - he invaded her space before she ever did.
You mean after she balled up her fist in a punching position?
Is that what that was?
If I decided to punch everyone who's ever bumped into me like that or worse in a bar I'd have a 3 page list of people...its not that serious, and clearly she only acted the way she did because her sense of entitlement has taught her that nothing would happen and she would be protected by all the "White Knights" rushing to her defense
Unlike his sense of entitlement - "get out of my way, I need another drink."
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Um, she did hit him first. Try as you might, you cannot get around that fact and "never in legitimate danger" won't fly in a court of law. Merely bumping into someone (like the girl also did to the guy in glasses when she saddled up to the bar) and even grabbing someone's wrist isn't a crime.
Creating apprehension by grabbing someone's wrist and holding her against her will isn't a crime? Seriously?!
So you're telling me that you think you can walk down the street and grab and clutch each random person's arm as they scream and attempt to get away any time you please?
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I'm not seeing where people are blaming her. the point people are making is that if a female swings at a guy, why are they able to walk away from any discipline or legal action because she's a female? This wasn't a case of him randomly punching her. Is he in the wrong? 100% absolutely is. HOWEVER, she is in the wrong as well. There was no need for her to throw a punch.
Bulldog on WGR was freaking out yesterday about this topic and refused to answer this question at first. IF she hit him, and he walked away and called the cops, should she be punished? Later he replies that no she shouldn't be. Why as a society do we allow this double standard? "Oh I can hit you because I'm a woman, but you can't hit me because I'm a woman"? I'm not advocating violence in any way shape or form, but the situation isn't right.
I'm glad they booted him from the team, he deserved it. However, Darby didn't do anything except raise the question of why the female gets off free (which is in a lot of people's minds).
He was physically restraining her against her will, which he had no right to do. From a legal standpoint she was acting in self-defense.
If he had walked away and called the police instead of decking her, the police would have come and found that there were no marks or evidence of a punch on Johnson because it was so weak. They would then question the witnesses. My guess is it would have resulted in no charges and a simple "Knock it off" from the officer because they were both being idiots.
"if a female swings at a guy, why are they able to walk away from any discipline or legal action because she's a female?" - This isn't true at all. Women are arrested for violent offenses against men every day.
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I think that he could have phrased it better but really? Anyone with knowledge of the context, or have seen the video would know exactly what he was getting at and meant. What sounds like a punk are the keyboard warriors that are harassing him because he said there should be consequence for a woman hitting a man. And he was clearly talking police.
One had to know that Darby's comments would be blown out of proportion and/or taken out of context simply because he's a black professional football player who attended FSU just a few months ago. Therefore, no matter what he said about the subject, unless he was 100% against Johnson it would just look like he was defending the psychopath who punched a strange woman in the face in public.
That said, "Yall can't keep letting females provoke guys in all ways then walk free" sounds a little too "The girl's skirt was too short" to me - at least in this instance.
Yes, she was drunk and too belligerent. But Johnson was the one who made physical contact with the girl first because he either refused to wait his turn or couldn't politely move to an open area without invading her space. Yes, she obviously overreacted to that - but holding up her hand (which could easily be construed as her pointing back at the bartenders) does not give a person the right to grab her wrist in a violent manner and clutch it against her will. After that she was in defense mode, trying to get her to stop and swung at him. And even then he was never in legitimate danger when he clocked her.
You guys can blame this girl all you want with the "She hit him first!" defense. It won't fly in a court of law because from a legal standpoint she did nothing wrong. Being a loudmouth isn't illegal.
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But she felt her life was in serious danger? Come on, man.
If she didn't, she certainly should have in hindsight.
It was a terrible dumb "decision"/reaction... but the kid is 19... I remember seeing all sorts of crazy stuff at college bars especially as underagers. He has to be held to a higher standard though having the responsibility of getting a full ride and being a 'celebrity' on campus. Also no idea on his upbringing either.
Girl looks like an obnoxious awful puddle but I do not think she did so much to make that response anywhere close to necessary... especially from a guy with so much to lose.
Ray rice was a grown man. Also hit his partner and it wasn't in a hectic bar scene. Makes the act in that case seem more psychopath and fits the bill of domestic violence.
Both are scumbags but to me, assaulting a complete stranger is more indicative of psychopathic behavior. But then again, I'm not a psychologist.
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She cocked her arm as if to hit him. He grabbed it to prevent that but she hit him with the other arm.
Yeah, I'm sure he felt his life was in serious danger. Come on, man.
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Watch the video again. She barrels into the guy on her right at the bar, while Johnson is trying to get the other woman to move. He doesn't acknowledge the blonde, but she's certainly keen on making sure he's aware that she's there. Her entire body language is all about confrontation.
He clearly lost control, but let's not give blondie a pass for creating the situation.
She definitely looks like a sloppy drunk. But he had absolutely no right to grab her wrist. A normal person would have laughed at her and moved on.
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@realronalddarby: What I want to know is whats happening to the girl that clearly hit De'andre first? It's never right to hit a girl at all
@realronalddarby: But they have to get some kind of consequence as well . Yall can't keep letting females provoke guys in all ways then walk free. Like ?
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she cocked her hand like she was gonna hit him...he grabs the hand and she hits him with the other one. He shouldn't have hit her but I'd lean towards self defense here. She also initiated the argument...he had his back to her and then it looks like she yells something at him and he says something back. He should press charges on her.
Johnson made physical contact first by needlessly pushing her into the bar table. He then grabbed her wrist violently and held her against her will. I don't see her "cocking her hand to hit him" - I see her pointing to the bartender behind her. And even if she was threatening to throw a punch - Johnson has a foot and 100 pounds on her. Self defense? At some point common sense should come into play here.
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Yup. He grabbed her right arm after slamming into her from behind trying to get to the bar. She clenched her fist but she didn't make any punching or other motion with it. He started it, she punched him and he punched her. Extraordinarily stupid. Nice to see FSU take appropriate action once the security footage became public. Just like Ray Rice.
She may be clenching her fist but to me it looks more like she is pointing back at the bartender like "I already ordered my drink he's getting it right now. Stop pushing me and wait your turn."
More Good PR For Florida State QB's
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
There's also a leap between stating people are using innuendo from the cold-cocker's lawyer as a tool "to make the victim look like she deserved what she got" and thinking or stating that the same posters really believe that she got what she deserved.