Turbosrrgood

This is a different type of situation than the POZ one. The thing with Whitner is, we already have a better starter on the team. Bryan Scott. So why get into a bidding war over this guy? He was a hard hitter, but whiffed many times as well. I bowed my head in disappointment many times when Whitner went for a big hit, only to bounce of as the opposing player just kept running, he never wrapped up when tackling ...he struggled mightily in coverage, and looked awful when asked to cover tight ends. Scott is better and coverage, and is still very big and a solid tackler. We also signed a promising looking SS in Searcy, along with talk of Aaron Williams being a possible safety. Not to mention Whitner is a douche. Actually if I had to pick one of the two to sign it would be POZ for depth, it's a bigger position of need (but again only at the right contract).

I won't, and that's my point. I just don't think we should commit to him if we have to match long, relatively costly contracts for a mediocre player. But I guess its Nix's opinion that will matter...

Saying POZ is our "Best LB" is a scary statement, even though it might have been true last year. My whole point is we should improve, not stick with a guy who is mediocre at best. Andra Davis is a much better LB when healthy compared to POZ in my opinion (granted he is older now). Sheppard was a tackling machine in college, and is bigger, faster, and more instinctive than POZ (granted he hasn't played in the NFL yet). "Decent" is not the standard to me...unfortunately "decent" is MUCH better than what we had last year...so if its an improvement, yeah I'll take it. I could support bringing POZ back as depth, and maybe a stop gap starter...but only if we got him on a low end contract. +1, Poz will generate offers, which will drive up the price of his contract, which is the reason I wouldn't want to sign him. The thing is he is decent (definitely not great) in a 4-3 defense, but he was mostly invisible in the 3-4 defense last year (despite all the tackles down field). Its not that I hate POZ, I guess my perspective is why make a commitment to mediocrity when we can get mediocre play from a udfa?

Yeah, forcing a bunch of 4-3 players to try and be 3-4 players didn't work to well did it...I think wannstedt being here means we will have at least some 4-3 formations...But the draft certainly seems geared towards the 3-4 over the last 2 years...I think they will continue to mix in 4-3 every now and then until we have the right 3-4 pieces.

Yeah, Sheppard hasn't played in the NFL yet so I can't get too excited...But he is already bigger and faster than POZ, and looks to be more instinctive. I also got the sense that this was POZ's replacement. Of course if we play mostly 3-4 you need 2 ILB's, and the Bills are anything but deep.... I am sure 4-3 teams will be interested...Which at least right now we are NOT. Comparing him to Ayodele (who is horrible) isn't saying much. No one questions that POZ makes a lot of tackles...too bad they were all 5-10 yards off the line of scrimmage. Where are the stats for how often a TE blew him away for a big play? JP Losman and Rob Johnson both had good QB ratings...we probably should have resigned them too right? Stats only mean something if they follow up good play... I can't argue against your point that we don't have a lot of talent behind him though...Sheppard and Davis sounds like a decent ILB combo to me...but that leaves no depth behind them. Clements, Williams, and Winfield all played great football for the Bills. In the case of Clements and Williams they got huge contracts afterwards...Comparing these guys to POZ, who has been mostly disappointing, is comparing apples to oranges...

A bit hypocritical, just the other day you referring to others threads as "jokes" and calling their opinions "garbage" because you didn't agree with them (troup thread). I agree with your message, but practice what you preach.

Yeah that will happen.

Well put response. I don't want to come off as being against KW, like I said he was our best D player. I just think his strength is attacking the line, not anchoring. I'd like to see him play 4-3 DT (very possible with wannstedt), or 3-4 end (arms to short?) where he can use those skills more. Obviously our LB's sucked last year, and it is certainly reasonable to blame the scheme. I was very upset with picking George Edwards as our DC, and even more upset that he justified my concerns...

I tend to agree with your point on this one, but you seem to really lack in people skills lol.

Wilfork, and KW played the same position last year, and had virtually the same responsibilities. NE doesn't really have good LB's either...This is just an excuse. I know KW is popular, and for good reason. I am by no means saying KW is a bad player, or even a bad NT. No matter how you slice it, he is very undersized as a 3-4 NT. He was even considered undersized when drafted as a 4-3 DT. He has one of the best motors I have ever seen, is strong, and can beat blockers. Having said that, the reasons for the Bills run-D failure listed above are just excuses. You want an example? watch one of the dozens of run plays that went straight up huge holes in the middle last year. On many of those plays KW was either pushed back, or more often, pushed to the side to create a gap. A good 3-4 NT needs to be near impossible to move. As bad as they were, I still can't believe that the Bills 3-4 scheme is "designed" to leave gaping holes to run through...KW is a great player, and probably one of the top 5 DT's in the league, he is just not built as a NT. Again, thats why the Bills have picked up another 3 pure NT's in the last year. He made is mark many times, by busting through the line and making great plays...unfortunately, teams ran right through the spot where we was supposed to be plenty of times as well.

This is the nature of posting on a forum. People post their opinions, other people disagree, each side tries to prove their point...Some will get upset over it...It is unavoidable...

KW played exceptionally well at a position he isn't physically suited for. He was probably our best defensive player. But to say he is a "perfect 1-gap NT" is just WAY off IMO. He is an ideal 4-3 DT, and played surprisingly well at NT despite being undersized for the job. Now I know the Bills LB's were awful last year, but to think KW hasn't had some blame in the Bills horrible run defense the last few years is just naive. He is a great penetrator, and does a great job at attacking angles, but when opposing teams ran straight ahead KW had no awnser. He just simply isn't big enough to hold the point of attack when teams go up the middle, despite all his effort. Watch a guy like Wilfork play, not only can he not be moved out of the way, but he often moves the whole pile into the path of the opposing running back. Of course he is bigger, and a PURE NT. I like Williams, but he is not even ideal at NT, let alone perfect. This is why the Bills picked up Troup, Heard, and Jasper.

lol, so true...

I am definitely not dismissing anything, I think he has a lot of potential. I think he has more upside than Moats. I'd just like to see the guy at least make it through a training camp before comparing him to one of the best pass rushers the Bills have had and saying "Batten = Paup".

I don't see what one has to do with the other...We got Merriman relatively cheap (understandably so, he hasn't been able to play in 3 years)...But the guy is still young and has a MUCH higher upside than POZ. At his best Merriman is an unstoppable, defense changing force....At his best POZ is a mediocre stop gap LB... Plus the Bills would likely have to pay POZ MORE than Merriman, despite the fact that he is no more durable...

Yeah, unfortunately for us Fletcher is better. He is much more consistent, and gets to ball carrier faster. lol, now this is a good point. The Bills have a very low team salaray, and no depth...When you say it like that I can't disagree with you...That money would just go right in Ralph's pocket...

+1, I think we would LIKE for Batten to become Bryce Paup...But the guy has never even had a training camp, as Bills fans we don't need to be setting ourselves up for even MORE disappointment...At least let him play a little first before making those comparisons.. Dont forget, he didn't even play LB in college...

Yeah, there is no doubt KW has a ton of talent. The fact the he was able to do so well at the NT position, despite not really being "built" for it, is a great credit to him. I'd like to see what he can do at 3-4 DE, and we all know how good he is in the 4-3 formation. He might be our best defensive player now, it would be great if he could be used towards his strengths... That is of course dependent on having another capable player at the NT position...

Yeah, Williams should not be a 3-4 NT either...While I won't argue that the Bills D sucked as a whole, just because everyone played poorly doesn't mean that gives POZ an excuse to play poorly as well...He looks awful in coverage, and has no burst or speed, absolutely no moves to get away from blockers (necessary for a 3-4 LB). He was ok as a 4-3 LB, so if we are going to use a 4-3 formation to a significant extent it might make sense to keep him...If we are going to go with a 3-4, then we should get 3-4 players...Not force guys to be what they are not (POZ, Kelsey, KW, Stroud (already gone),....)

I will go a step further and say that Maybin will not be wasting a roster spot on the Bills this year...Although if the lockout continues that only HELPS Maybin. If the Bills can't get young guys into camp to get them up to speed we may be stuck with him... I would love for the headline of the post to be true...but saying a guy is going to be like Paup was for us (16 sacks in a season) is quite the optimistic statement. Batten came from a small school, was a late round pick, is coming off of injury, and really hasn't been able to practice with the Bills since being drafted. I would be happy just to see him get on the field, let alone be Bryce Paup....

This all depends on how the Bills D is going to work. Poz is absolutely NOT a good 3-4 LB, too small and while he makes a lot of tackles they are all down field. He was decent as 4-3 MLB, so if wannstedt uses a heavy portion of that then maybe it is worth keeping him. I know a lot of people like POZ, but he is very overrated. He is smart, but not athletic, downright slow for an NFL LB. He is a consistent tackler, but when they are all down field that just leads to first down after first down. Plus he can't stay healthy. If we can get him on the cheap, sure why not...But a combo of Sheppard and Davis sounds better to me in the middle right now, despite the fact that Sheppard has never played an NFL game. +1, agree 100%

Kirwan said "4. Marshawn Lynch, Seahawks (>): Just look at the epic run he had in the playoffs last year and ask yourself how many players could duplicate that effort" Yeah, it's funny...Because that epic run, as great as it was, was pretty much the ONLY production he had all season...Putting him ahead of a guy like Jackson (who was ahead of Lynch on the Bills roster), is a little ridiculous. Jackson does everything well (nothing great), he can catch, he can run, has speed, and power. He can even block and play special teams.... Lynch? He runs strong....thats it. He isn't fast, he isn't agile, he isn't smart, he doesn't hit holes...

I can't say I really disagree with his "numbers" on the Bills, but this kind of stuff is mostly arbitrary BS. It almost looks like this was done along the lines of team records, not the "franchise"...If Wilson is a 1 (no argument here), what about Al Davis? How is he not the worst? I also agree with GB being first, I have long thought that their organization was run very well...And it should be a model for how the Bills should be run. After all we have similar market sizes.

If he is on the PS, it's very unlikely anyone would take him off of it, especially the Pats or Jets. That would mean they would have to take a guy not good enough to make the Bills weak defensive roster...and replace someone on the Jets or Pats rosters... The guy didn't even play NT last year, he played guard at a no name school against midgets...What we we are hoping for is another Jason Peters like transformation...It's the best team for him...if he shows any ability at all then he should have no problem making this team. Edit...Of course the lockout screws him bad... If there is no pre-season for him to try out, there is almost no way he could make the team.

haha, the offseason is the only time during which we can feel some sense of hope...Only to be brutally awakened from that dream come the regular season...