ThurmasThoman

no news here, patriots haven't been that great since pioli left and they stopped being allowed to video tape their opponents practices to know what plays were going to be run against them on sunday. this is a bills message board, so the fear of the hoodie and the flying elvis is wildly.. WILDLY.. irrational. they have: a 35 year old quarterback who was banged up all last season and isn't getting any younger no running back a 5'8, white (not saying its important that he's white, but i am saying im glad we dont have any white wideouts) #1 receiver wideouts playing in their secondary no defensive line a super-lethal, dangerous, unstoppable offense that relies on 2 tight ends running 7 yard patterns accross the middle of the field that was 1 lee evans drop/1 kundiff shank away from being unable to beat any teams that play above .500 football. we were a stevie johnson benching away from sweeping them half of the callers to sports radio (i live in new england) think belly is losing touch and has too much control their drafts have been terrible since pioli left they are THE shining example of why we should trade EVERY. SINGLE. PICK. for the next 5 years to get a quarterback. you can make and win the superbowl in this league with a great qb and a good gameplan. but other than those 2 factors working in their favor (both of which appear to be on the decline) we, collectively as bills fans, need to stop acting like we play in the same division as jesus christ and the apostles in cleats.

rams announce the pick is up for grabs today, and set the bar for what they want. nix says they dont want in - its too steep. theres only a handful of teams in play here. depending on manning, and flynn, and other GMS... a lot can happen. maybe in a week? month? things will change. maybe miami is out of the running. maybe the skins make a splash tonight. who knows?

beliceck is a system guy who can get away saying that, because even when tom-goddamn-captain-america-brady goes down, they still won 11 games. chans "system" hasn't won that many games in two seasons COMBINED in buffalo. it's pure hubris on his part to say HE can make the next stev13.

there are some really great posts in this thread, and this is one of the best. let me admit something: i am a homer. the bills can do no wrong in my eyes. if we're 0-7 im watching the 8th game, because a far bigger piece of me than im willing to admit believes that we're going to win out and be the 9-7 team that wins a super bowl. people say bills fans are pessimistic-i think i am wildly, blindly optimistic. so, along those lines, i really really try to stay away from criticizing management or our coaches - i believe in my heart they want to win just as much as i do. BUT i will say this: we have a gap in our organizational philosophy that needs to be addressed. we have had good to great drafts since the super bowl years, and there have been some good to great players that have worn our jersey. people have a misconception that winning teams field all stars at every position - thats simply not the case. ive watched most of this patriots "dynasty" thats taken place for a decade, and let me tell you, they have no running back, they have 2 wideouts who are 5'8 white guys, they have wideouts in their secondary: these guys are not the harlem globe trotters on astro turf, to say the least. but what they manage to do, along with most of the other perennially succesful clubs in the league, is keep their own when its cheap, and replace them with DRAFT PICKS when its not. that's where the bills mess up, time and time again. letting good players walk - FOR NOTHING. and what it does, is it makes the draft look bad. its like, you draft stevie in 08. in 2010 he had a damn good season, and wasn't on anyones radar. but I knew he was good. YOU knew he was good. NIX knew he was good. WE ALL KNEW HE WAS GOOD. that was the time to sign him to a cheap, bad contract for 6 years. but we let him play this year on his rookie(?) deal. and what happened, he played great for 4 games. we should have signed him THEN to a marginal contract. but we didnt. and now, the year ends, free agency is set to begin, the league knows he is a great (yes, not good, great) receiver, his price is through the roof, and the bidding war begins. but the problem isnt that it might be expensive to sign him, the problem is that if he leaves, we get nothing. NOTHING. just like POZ. the patriots just almost won the super bowl. they have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. we just finished 6-10. we have 3 picks in the first 3 rounds. THAT is what is wrong with the buffalo bills. we have to start signing our middle of the road talent to sweet heart deals after their 2nd year. we need to start taking risks at THAT end of our organization. spend a little money on guys who might never be great... but if they ARE great and want to leave, we can load up on picks. or they can stay and we have a great player.

but you have to value consistency too, more than numbers. if we can retain johnson, were looking at the same coach, qb, #1 wideout, and rb entering camp for the third year in a row. that hasn't happened in buffalo since the 1996 season with marv, kelly, reed and thurm. think about that for a second: its been 16 seasons since we entered camp with those positions unchanged for a 3rd season in a row. there is no reason to think we couldn't win 12-14 games with our offense healthy, and a big defensive draft. resigning steve johnson is more important that resigning a lease on the ralph.

this is exactly, 100% true. you DO NOT build through free agency. you build through the draft. period. we're close, we're very very close. sign stevie. OVER PAY STEVIE. whatever. draft a wideout. maybe marcus easley blossoms (or even plays) this year. who knows. then next year, we have THREE wideouts that are "too expensive." sign em all, trade 2. get 5 draft picks. draft 2 wideouts and 3 linebackers. rinse. repeat. win. its how the patriots packers steelers and giants do it. and its how they win superbowls. its like, were sitting here with a top 10 receiver drafted in the 7th round, and a league leading rb that went undrafted. and we need to hit free agency for vincent jackson? NO. wrong. sign our own, lock them up, draft their replacements. then when their stock is high but their value to us is marginalized, trade them and get the picks.

this. every year, certain "talking points" emerge in the discourse surrounding the NFL, and this year, it has been "injuries are not an excuse." i do not know who started this (my best guess is jim rome-he's the first person i heard bring this up, and it's certainly been repeated since then) but now that phrase has taken on a life of it's own, to the point that it has become a given. hardly worth discussing. "you can't use injuries as an excuse, look at the _________ " "this is a next man up league, so don't use injuries as an excuse." and on and on. its all gabage. the buffalo bills started the season 5-2, beat the afc conference champions at home, and lost to the eventual league champions on the road in the final minutes of a close game. following injuries to our: quarterback, running back, oline, wideouts, linebackers, dline, kicker and secondary, we began to fall apart, and missed the playoffs. these injuries are partly bad luck, but partly due to the fact that there was no offseason conditioning, there was no training camp, there were no mini camps. pessimistic bills fans will counter with: "good teams find ways to win in situations like that." i will counter with this: that was one of the worst seasons of professional football i have ever seen in my life. the patriots won our conference after beating denver in the divisional round by 30 points--a denver team we had beaten at home 3 weeks earlier by the same margin. they won our conference by beating baltimore in the championship game after baltimore dropped the game winning touchdown and shanked the game tying, 20 yard field goal. they won our conference despite baltimore being the only team all season they beat with a winning record. baltimore was only playing in that game because THEY barely beat houston's third string quarterback at home. a houston team that got to face cincinnati's rookie qb in round one. and in the national conference, you have the 9-7, super bowl champion new york giants. a team that had to beat the cowboys in week 17 just to get into the playoffs. quality of play across the league was down all year, it wasn't even a war of attrition. it was simply: one team is going to win the superbowl, who is it. how far, really, are the bills from these groups of teams? from a super bowl champion 9-7 giants team? from a can't beat a team with a winning record, hell, can't even beat the buffalo bills new england patriots team? from a divisional round denver broncos team? we're close. and injuries prevented us from clearing that hurdle this year. but next year? we absolutely should expect the best from this team. but that comes with a caveat: resiging our BEST offensive weapon. is the market for wide receivers too pricey? i dont care. you don't buy all the ingredients to make a cake, then complain about sugar prices and tell your kid he's getting dinner rolls for his birthday party instead. we got a coach that loves slants, curls and screens. we got a qb that can't throw it further than 10 yards in a dome, and we got an oline that looks great when the ball is thrown in 2 seconds or less. we NEED a young, fast, strong, durable wideout that knows where the first down marker is and can get there every time. that knows what fitzs limitations are and can adjust his route accordingly. people want a "true" number 1? that's great, but if you're picturing fitz hitting vincent jackson in stride on a beatufiul 50 yard go pattern, i think you should be picturing vince young or jamarcus russel throwing that pass, because that simply isn't how our offense works, or is capable of working. bottom line - resign stevie, make the playoffs.

no no - HE was making the incorrect leap in logic. my point is - cheating does not guarantee victory, but it tips the odds in your scale.

this is a logical fallacy. if a) new england won a super bowl by cheating but b) they didn't win a super bowl one of those years then c) they must not have been cheating lets use an analogy: your wife goes on a week long getaway to the bahamas with her male boss, and stays with him at the four seasons there in september, november and december, but not october. the following january, someone from her company accuses her of having an affair. you get a family counselor from your church to review surveillance footage from the hotel room, and advise you on your marriage. after reviewing the tapes, he tells you that your vows have been broken, and recommends the most intensive couples counseling in the history of marriage -- therapy that he has recommended for no other couples in the history of adultery. you're line of thinking seems to be "hey, she didn't go down there in OCTOBER with him, so it's not that bad. plus, she doesn't even go to the bahamas anymore! she went to rome with him in february, and just got back from a trip to tokyo with him last week. so there!"

we win more games than the pats next year, take it to the bank. to clarify: we beat them once, and had a 21-0 lead before we benched the best player on our team. we are better than the pats, and injuries to our qb league leading rb de lb wideouts kicker and anyone else you want to name kept us out of the playoffs. we will have a strong draft. we will have offseason conditioning. we will have a training camp. we will have an easy schedule. we will win the east. we will play in the conference championship. the afc is WEAK. i absolutely can not wait for this season. I CANT WAIT. i have not been this optimistic about a football season since doug fluties second year as a starter, aka the music city miracle year. is it september yet??

i used to be in this camp. i really did. look - i have been watching football for 20 years. there are people here that have been watching it longer than that. there are people that post here that have played ball on the college level. hell, there are people here that play a lot of madden on their playstation that understand the game better than me. but let me say this: i live in new england. i grow up in new england. im a bills fan. ive seen 99% of their games since turning 21 (old enough to go to bars with direct tv) and before that, about 50% of their games. but new england? man, i've probably seen more patriots games than any 3 of their most bandwagon, fair-weather, wes welkah should be cut patriot fans COMBINED. my only point is... OBJECTIVELY... i have never... EVER EVER EVER... seen football played like the patriots played it between 2001/2002, and 2003/2004. there's winning good, theres winning ugly, theres winning lucky, and then theres just winning when you have absolutely no business winning because you know what play is coming next. if it was black jack, they were hitting on 17 and getting a 3 every time. if it was poker, they were going all in on a pair of 7s after the 1st card, and then getting their 4th 7 on the river - EVERY GAME. they were beating peyton in his prime... in ways that were just... magical. after they beat the steelers for the second time in the conference championship, steelers wideouts after the game said PATRIOT PLAYERS WERE CALLING OUT THEIR PLAYS AT THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE! is brady the best qb in the league, and the best qb of the last decade? yes. is belly the best coach in the league, and the best coach of the last decade? without question. did the patriots cheat, and did that help them win superbowls? yes. these facts are not mutually exclusive from one another. and i used to say "i wish the bills could cheat like that." but no. no i dont. because the more ive read about it, the more ive learned about it, the less i want that stigma for my organization. because maybe some people will forgive and forget - but there is a LARGE segment of the football world, including current and former players, who feel that the patriots violated the very spirit of the game. a game that we are clearly quite passionate about. its truly unforgivable, and they deserve all of the bad fate that befalls them.

looked, but i didn't see a thread about this. did anyone else catch it? nothing particularly news worthy. somethings i took away from it. *stevie said he wants to stay in buffalo. said he's upset they haven't made an offer yet, but it's business. said it's his priority to sign here. *said he's going to test free agency, wants buffalo to match. *said at first he was upset about them not offering a contract. *said he's going to tone down his act. the thing that struck me the most: *said when he watched the playoffs, he could envision himself catching balls from other qbs. wondered alound what it would be like to catch balls from brady, brees, rivers, eli. also, didnt come right out and say that fitz's contract had nothing to do with his falling off. he basically said something along the lines of "idk why he started playing worse, maybe it was the contract, idk." i really don't give a flip about the guys intelligence, or character issues, or clear inability to handle an interview without starting controversy. but damn, i hope we resign him. he is certainly a talent.

by the numbers: record against division 2011 nfc east v afc east 8-8 2010 nfc north v afc east 7-9 2009 nfc south v afc east 7-9 2008 nfc west v afc east 5-11 2007 nfc east v afc east 11-5 2006 nfc north v afc east 4-12 looks like we play them at about .500. it would be interesting to see how other divisions in our conference are doing, in terms of records, against the nfc. really though, my statistical analysis of the data would be this: it's a fun, but completely meaningless coincidence.

we should get him. the guy is the best to ever do it. let's roll the dice again like we did with bledsoe. i would say we could win the super bowl NEXT YEAR with manning under center. that offense? wheeeeeeew. we'd be something else. we'd look at a lot like the patriots this year: you could put wide outs in our secondary and we could still make the championship. idk. id be excited as hell if we traded for him.

terrible year for the AFC. not saying brady isnt the best qb in the league (he is) or beliceck isnt the best coach in the game (i dont know how to gauge coaches, but its tough to name anyone better,) but this is a team that literally didnt beat anyone with a winning record all season got to host the broncos, coming off a short week, in the DIVISIONAL round (a team we beat 40-14 a few weeks earlier) and then had the ravens drop a game winning td and butcher a game tying FG in the last seconds. hell, they may win the super bowl this year... its 50/50. im just not in awe of that organization like so many on this board. they video taped everyone. and i used to be in the "well, i wish the bills would cheat like that" camp... but the league came down HARD on them with penalties. so it's not like the league "didnt think it was a big deal." after they got busted, they never made it back to the big game. pioli left, and their defense is terrible. i know i know i know, im saying all this about a team thats playing in the super bowl, "i wish the bills were that bad," etc. etc. etc. as jim rome would say "MUST BE NICE." BUT terrible year for the afc. honest to god. just a terrible year for our conference.

actually, this is completely incorrect. laws regarding counterfeit vary state to state, and even city by city. but they all agree on one thing: the OWNING AND PURCHASING of counterfeit goods is legal. the reselling of counterfeit goods for a PROFIT is illegal. with regards to making illegal the owning of counterfeit goods, as much of an inroad as anyone has made came in the city with this proposed law: http://www.lexisnexis.com/community/copyright-trademarklaw/blogs/graygoodfakegoods/archive/2011/04/28/proposed-new-york-city-bill-will-criminalize-purchase-of-counterfeit-goods.aspx which was never brought to a vote. the busts/raids/etc. that you hear about, such as this: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/21/feds-seize-counterfeit-tim-tebow-jerseys/ are targeting the merchants of such goods, who are clearly buying in bulk with the intention of, (and a clearly established distribution network to) move those jerseys. so while perhaps you may be morally opposed to the practice, it is NOT, in fact, illegal.

truly ridiculous right? there was a pick that brady threw earlier in the game that got called off. maybe it was illegal defensive contact, maybe it wasnt: it just irked me to see the ref so emphatically throw the flag for something that happened 3-4 seconds earlier, as soon as the ball landed in the ravens arms. ahhhhh, i wish evans had caught that. silence that crowd, at home, and end their season. here's hoping this giants team really is a team of destiny this year.

the thing that is TRULY astounding about the patriots is how scared of them buffalo bills fans are. i have said this in every thread this season - they suck now. they didn't beat anyone with a winning record until last week, when they beat the broncos, 45-10. we beat the same broncos team 40-14 a few weeks earlier. we beat the pats this year. we were a stevie johnson benching away from sweeping them this year. they have wide receivers playing in their secondary. before beating the broncos, their last 3 playoff games were a loss to the jets, a blowout by the ravens, and the end of their undefeated season. they haven't won a super bowl in 8 years. even when they were winning super bowls, anyone who lives in new england who isn't a patriots fan (like ME) knew, just absolutely KNEW, something wasn't right about the way they won. they were NOT better than the eagles that year, and they should have been blown out by the rams. they always won with smoke and mirrors, and what do you know, turns out they were cheating the whole time. say what you want about "man i wish the bills could cheat like that" but it is what it is, and that is this: no other team in the league cheated like that, the patriots were HEAVILY penalized, and they haven't won a goddamn thing since then. STOP BEING SCARED OF THE PATRIOTS. we have been a bad team for a decade, as have the dolphins. the patriots have bennefitted from a weak division for a decade. that run is coming to a close. they will get destroyed by the ravens this weekend. book it, gamble your mortgage on it. they are an old, fading team. stop being scared of them.

great article, id love to read one like that on donahoes bills.

this right here perfectly sums up the pessimism of the buffalo bills fans, and their hopeless, eternal eeyore attitude. the patriots beat denver 45-10, at home, stopping the jesus-christ-incarnate quarterback dead in his tracks? the patriots are the kings of the league - we must draft for the next decade to stop the patriots. infact, we should sit out next season, and just concede the division to them. after yesterday's performance, there is no stopping them. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY HAVEN'T BEATEN A TEAM WITH A WINNING RECORD ALL SEASON, OR HAVE WIDEOUTS IN THEIR SECONDARY, OR HAVE NO RUNNING GAME. THEY ARE THE PATRIOTS! THEY WON A SUPER BOWL 8 YEARS AGO! THE BILLS SUCK! DON'T YOU SEE?? HOW ARE YOU MISSING THIS??!??!?!?!? the bills beat denver, 40-14, at home, 3 weeks earlier, stopping the jesus-christ-incarnate quarterback dead in his tracks? what a worthless organization. we can't even have a losing season correctly. it just messed up our draft pick! we're screwed. the sky is falling! fire nix! fire gailey! cut stevie now so we don't even have to renegotiate with him, he'll just leave anyways. or drop a game winning pass against the patriots.

to be fair, its against the denver broncos that these patriots look like world-beaters. WE looked like world beaters against denver. miami was up 17-0 on new england in week 16, and we were up 21-0 on them in week 17. the strategy to beat new england? be above .500! (new england has not beat a team with a winning record this season.) theyll get smoked by either baltimore or houston next week.

great post. thanks!

But they made the playoffs the following season, and actually won a playoff game. (the last playoff game they won.) hell, they won the division the next year. and made the playoffs the year after that. i know they were a team on the decline, i just don't understand why the wheels only fell off for that season?

Now this isn't exactly the type of history that is going to take you back into the formation of the AFL, but I've always wondered the following: Why did the 1994/1995 Buffalo Bills squad not make the playoffs? I was in grade school at the time... a pretty young kid. I knew the Bills were a big deal, and had been in the super bowl the previous 4 years (obviously.) And, truth be told, it wasn't until the next season (1995-1996) that i REALLY got into the team. That year, if you recall, we beat the dolphins at home in the wild card round, then lost to pittsburgh on the road in the divisional round. The following year (96-97) we were upset at home by the jags, and then kelly and hull retired, and the end of that era was upon us. But that 1994-1995 season has always baffled me. I "followed" the team that year, in so far as I watched the games with my dad and uncles and what not. But all i really remember is the bills went 7-9 and didn't make the playoffs. Yet the next year, Berman was right back to picking Bills/49ers super bowl matchups, and there we were, making it to the round of 8. So what the hell happened?

lmao. wake up man. you're about 2 years behind the time. the patriots are not a good football team anymore. they have a good record: yes. but they beat... wait for it... ZERO teams with winning records this year. the magic is over. i live in new england - the bandwaggon is done, people care more about the bruins now. in your mind, they may still be dominant... but dont forget - WE BEAT THEM THIS YEAR. the jets? they went .500 and are a team in revolt. i guess theyll do whatever it takes to win... except win. and the dolphins. yeah, i admit, theyre scary. in fact, i could easily see them winning the east next year. but i truly, in my heart of hearts believe, it will either be us or miami coming out as the 3 seed next year, with the one that doesnt win the division getting the 5 seed as a wild card. LOL at realigning the league if fisher comes here. OUR DIVISION COULDN'T EVEN PRODUCE A WILD CARD!!!!!! and the competition is too stiff for you????