Mango
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Posts posted by Mango
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18 minutes ago, Logic said:
Not sure if this has been posted yet, as I have no desire to wade through 56 pages of hand wringing, but...
Known Bills supporter and Allen defender Dave Portnoy (I say with tongue firmly in cheek) has this to say:
Imagine your boss going out of his way to tell the world that you are a moron. haha.
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I think people get confused with the dead cap number. It isn't in addition to, it is instead of. Sure the dead cap number is important, but the more important number is the delta. Generally when you hear that "teams have an out" it is that the delta moves from a cap negative to a cap positive.
Because Diggs was restructured it lowered his base salary and increased his bonus money. His bonus money stays with the Bills (dead cap) and the receiving team is only on the hook for his salary. BUT!!!! His salary only counts towards the cap if he is on the roster. So if Houston doesn't want Diggs they can move on and clear his cap number fully at any time.
The numbers work out as:
- 2024 Diggs on the Bills: ~$28M
- 2024 Diggs off the Bills: ~$31M
- 2024 delta Bills Salary Cap: -$3M- 2025 delta Bills Salary Cap: +$25-30M-ish
- 2024 Diggs on Houston Texans: ~$19M
- 2025 Houston cuts Diggs : +$18.5M (no dead money)
Diggs Spotrac Breakdown
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/stefon-diggs-16872/Bills Spotrac Breakdown 2024
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/
Bills Spotrac Breakdown 2025
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2025/-
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Just now, Bruffalo said:
There is no dead cap on a traded player the season after. All dead cap gets moved to the year they were traded. It's one of the reasons people thought he couldn't be traded, the Bills have taken on a massive dead cap hit but have cleared the books (saving 25ish mil) next season.
That is what I thought, but was waiting for spotrac to finalize it.
It isn't all that massive. It is $3M more than his cap hit on the roster.
Basically the Bills spent $3M in 2024 cap dollars today in order to free up $25M in 2025 cap dollars.-
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35 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:
Diggs is better than any rookie until proven otherwise, which is a complete unknown. With 30 mil dead cap next season. It was a bad decision.
I do not believe this is true. Right now Spotrac is showing that we take Diggs $27M cap number off the books for 2025. That could change as this whole thing gets finalized, but it won't be $30M regardless.-
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18 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:
not surprised by the move. a bit surprised there was a trade partner. his salary is immense for the production he put out last season along with his age. not going to pretend to know what was going on behind the scenes at OBD, but, Diggs was a pro, a team captain, took a pounding and always showed up, until recently. maybe he wanted out, maybe he dogged it a bit to force his way out. we do know that he wants to play with his brother, so moving onto Texas at least gets him closer. ty for your time here Stefon, was exciting nearly every week.
to all those that see this as an incoming homerun swing into the top 5 to nab a receiver, be careful, receiver is the hardest spot to transition from college to the pros. top guys flame out or take years to produce, all the time. sure theres been a handful of guys lately that were plug and play, but thats not the norm. short of grabbing Harrison Jr, i wouldnt even bother. ideally what you want to do is exactly what Beane did those years ago with Diggs, you want to find an established guy 1 or 2 years into showing consistency, and trade for that. the draft is a crap shoot.
He has the 13th cap hit this year now that he is traded. That isn't "immense".
In theory Houston has zero reason to keep Diggs if he does not perform and could move on from him for very very minimal cap implications.Buffalo eats his bonus and Houston is only on the hook for his salary. We will have to wait for the correct cap adjustments, but under normal circumstances base salary is not guaranteed.
We will have to wait for everything to be properly adjusted to confirm but more often than not this is standard practice.
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Just now, CaliBills said:
Wonder if he will like being a #2 receiver?
Hilarious. Because it is true.
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7 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:
I don’t hate the trade, and I think Beane did a brilliant job turning us into contenders. However, I’m starting to see Beane and McD display some of the traits that ended Beane’s tenure in Carolina. Beane is team building the same way he did in Carolina, and it didn’t end great. I worry he’s repeating the same mistakes.
LOL
Ended his tenure? Neither were fired. Both were promoted to HC and GM roles in Buffalo. What are you talking about?
I have been critical of a bunch of stuff from McBeane, but this isn't built on the foundation of any truth.
(Also, look at the Sabres. Never ever move on from Brandon Beane. Brandon Beane for president of everything for eternity please)-
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3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:
Wow!! Just saw this online and came here.
First thing for me is that I said again and again that it wouldn't happen, that there were way too many negatives for the Bills to cut him. But also that trading was at least possible, but really unlikely, unless he forced his way out.
So, first, I was wrong. I did put in the caveat, but I just didn't think it would happen. So, how wrong I was isn't possible to say exactly yet, but wrong. Significantly wrong.
Second, I have to fight my confirmation bias. Because I added the caveat, I have to fight an automatic belief that I know why this happened, that he did force his way out. I will try, for that reason, not to comment too much on the reasons it happened. My opinion is compromised.
It still seems like the most likely reason for this. But perhaps it wasn't quite that he forced his way out, but that it just began to look like if we kept going with him, it was going to become uncomfortable.
Just hear Anthony Prohaska from Cover1 say this, "Because of the financial implications, you don't make a move like this unless it's absolutely necessary from a roster perspective. from a team perspective, from a culture perspective."
Yup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lK64gxxwMU
He continued, "The Bills right now, without Stefon Diggs on the field, are not a better football team than they were in 2023. Even a diminished version of Stefon Diggs is still a very very very good football player, and as we talked about, early in the season he was on a historic pace, another record-setting year for a #1 WR who had previous record-setting years here."
And, "No matter how you slice it, the Bills are not a better football team for moving Stefon Diggs, jettisoning him to the Houston Texans. And especially considering what they got back in that package, also having to give some picks themselves, it really just seems like a 'we've gotta get rid of this guy' kind of move, even though schematically and on the field it hurts you, in addition to the financial implications."
Yeah, that. Jettisoning appears to be the right word. Jeez. And I'm so depressed that that second rounder is from 2025, although I've seen at least one source say it was 2024. But nearly everyone says 2025. Man, depressing.
They have taken a major step back for this year.
I think C1 is just trying to cover their own takes with this. They said that restructuring Diggs was a must do move this season.
The Bills needed to get younger and were never going to take the nearly $30M per year cap hit for Diggs for the length of his contract. Most assumed he would not finish his career in Buffalo. I thought he could move on this year but by next season (2025) Diggs would not be a Bill.
The cap ramifications for keeping Diggs long term were always much much greater than moving on from him.
Right now Spotrac is showing that we cleared $27M 2025 dollars with this move and it only cost us an additional $3M this year to do so.-
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2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:
I think each pass that someone not named diggs catches cuts into diggs’ personal motivation a small percentage lol it’s gonna happen pretty quickly in HoustonIn public statements though he’ll be a good teammate to try to disprove the diva label but over time that will fall by the wayside too
Diggs was a better teammate this year than I thought he would be. He had some outbursts in the past. But I also think part of that was him being a good soldier to get out.
2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:https://theathletic.com/5385582/2024/04/03/stefon-diggs-trade-texans-bills/
I’m competently shocked. Doesn’t feel legit.
So Shakir to Diggs’ spot, Samuel to the slot. 1st rd pick to replace Davis?
I think the hope is for the offense to be more in line with the the old NE and current KC offenses that feature the TE, pass catching RB's, and slot receivers.
That said, I think they want Shakir on the outside, but I won't be shocked if he takes over for Samuel inside. I am pretty high on KS. -
15 minutes ago, davefan66 said:
Houston got draft picks for this year, so couldn’t have been a post June 1. Wonder what a post June 1 trade would have looked like?I reserve the right to get this one wrong, but I am going through the wayback machine, and I think the Bills free up $27M in 2025 cap space by making this a pre June-1 cut. Spotrac is still a little wonky for the Bills 2025 and Diggs Houston numbers, but that seems to be what the numbers are telling me?
I will update @SDS when it is finalized. But ultimately Houston should only be on the hook for Diggs salary for the duration he is on their roster. If they cut him next offseason they should get quite a bit of cap relief. But they don't really need to, his cap number for them is hovering around the 17th among WRs. Whereas in Buffalo he would be pushing the highest WR cap number.
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6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
I can absolutely see something like that. I think the Bills trading into the top 10 just became possible.
DB taken at 28 confirmed
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5 minutes ago, davefan66 said:
Got it!Is there dead money next year also? If not, not a bad move IMHO.
Spotrac isn't up to date yet, but I think we get something like $5-10M back in cap space next year. I believe there is still some dead money, but ultimately we get some relief.
I thought the Bills would have waited until after June 1. I remember that in that scenario the Bills would have gotten $19M in 2024 relief and $5M in 2025.-
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49 minutes ago, muppy said:
ahem well who are you to chastise anybody. Get a grip on your high horse there pal. SMH
I am not your buddy pal.
It isn't a high horse. I merely pointed out that nearly an entire year went by where dozens of posters explained that Diggs contract is actually very movable if the Bills wanted to. Some posters just plugged their ears.
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4 minutes ago, davefan66 said:
Question.
We eat only 4 million this year, not the 31 million?
How does the 31 million dead money on 2024 play out?
Using round numbers it is $28M on the roster $31M off the roster. Effectively trading Diggs only costs us an additional $3M compared to keeping him.
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18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
I really don’t understand how the finances of this actually worked.
I don't think Spotrac is fully up to date yet some of the numbers still look wonky. Stef is listed as a Texan but on the Bills roster still and his dead cap number is blank, but they have some pre/post June 1 numbers that don't make a ton of sense.
But effectively trading Stef will add an additional $3M to our cap number this year. I forget next years number, but I think this free's up between $5-10M. Because of the restructure Houston is basically only on the hook for Diggs base salary in terms of cap dollars. In general base salaries aren't guaranteed unless you are on the roster, so Houston should be able to move on fairly cheaply if they don't want to pay Diggs $18M anymore. -
Gregg over at Cover 1 must be in shambles.
He parrotted all year that Diggs was a must or likely restructure this year.-
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Just now, muppy said:
we need DATA and what has actually occurred here. I thought the same as you regarding his contract. We were basically "stuck with him" I thought due to his contract and potential cap hit
Sorry, that was sarcasm. Diggs was definitely always tradable. And not just tradable, advantageous for the receiving team. Diggs contract going forward for Houston is middle of the pack for WR1 across the league and there is next to zero cap implication for them to move on from him at any point because of the restructure. And the delta for the Bills is $3M this year. That is it. Now they have some more cap freedom going forward.
Not to be a blowhard or specifically kick you in the shins, but this was explained over and over and over again by a lot of posters.-
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Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:
Some people owe me an apology.
Despite an entire year of saying "Diggs costs $3M more off the roster than he does on" it is hard to believe that there were still people going "tHirTy OnE MiLliOn DoLlArS".
He was always tradable, the restructure put the cap risk on Buffalo. If Diggs is "meh" and not worth $18M AAV after this year (or any year) they can move on with basically zero cap implication.-
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Guys, can't be real. His contract is not tradable.
EDIT: Sarcasm.-
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2 minutes ago, mrags said:
So hard to gauge anything based on resale value. I doubled my ticket prices at face value in 4 of the 6 regular season games I sold. Didn’t lose any money on the other 2. As far as the playoffs I almost doubled my money on the Chiefs game but took a loss in the Steelers game. The weather was not helpful those weeks.
You sold 6/8 games and Terry didn’t come after you for a resellers license? -
20 hours ago, SoTier said:
I haven't watched a lot of Fields, but I think he has a skill set reminiscent of Russ in his prime, so they can both work in the same type of offense. My guess is that Russ will start the season with Fields as his backup. If he can't recreate the form he had in Seattle, then Fields will get his shot. Even if Russ excels and Fields doesn't see much playing time, I think that the Stillers may re-sign Fields for the future if he looks good in practice.
Just to add on, I hope they go 9-8 with 6 of their wins against Cleveland, Baltimore, and Cincinnati.
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4 hours ago, Jukester said:
https://wyrk.com/mark-poloncarz-issues-statement-about-buffalo-bills-high-psls/
The County Executive expressed his disappointment to the Bills and Legends representatives last week during a tour of the new Stadium Experience, regarding their failure to publicly release the PSL prices. For the record, the county has not been provided any prices/costs regarding the PSLs because we are not a party to the PSL agreement, as the county is out of the football business once the new stadium opens up. We are discussing the matter with the state at this time.
Pegulas leash with Buffalo fans is shortening.I’m on another hockey forum in addition to Sabrespace that’s generally pretty dry and straightforward hockey talk by comparison. It is becoming highly volatile and very anti-Pegula.
He needs the Bills in the SB and he needs them there soon. Otherwise I think the city is ready to flip on him entirely.
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5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:
NFL has changed qualifications for Hard Knocks meaning the Bills are eligible to be forced to do it this summer as they removed the playoff criteria. Here are the only teams that aren't qualified.
They have a first-year head coach in place.
They're participating in the in-season show during the upcoming year or the following season.
They have appeared on "Hard Knocks" in the past eight years.
They apparently will also feature an In Season Hard Knocks where they'll follow four teams in a division. It's doubtful the AFC East will be chosen this year since the Fish did it last year and the Jets were in the summer addition.
I used to be against it because of the possible distraction but it's not like avoiding the show has led to a Super Bowl birth. I would enjoy the behind the scenes stuff and get a better sense of the personalities of the coaches and players. Would be curious if you guys would welcome it or think it's too big of a distraction.
On the other hand you have:
- The Bills trying to get over the hump. Roster getting younger. Possible coach on the hot seat.- Rodgers come back season at 40 and possible run for VP.
- McDaniels is a bit of a media darling across the league. Then add in a possible Tua extension. Plus Poyer moves in the division.- Then the Patriots first season without Belichick for literally an entire generation of humanity.
A lot of pretty quality storylines in the AFCE even if this doesn't turn out to be a super competitive year. -
9 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:
Is someone forcing you to buy a PSL or not? Yes, public monies are involved too. But economic forces of supply and demand are also at work here.Christ!
A free market prohibits public subsidy because its influence no longer allows it to operate freely.
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Diggs traded to Texans for picks
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
We may be getting caught up up in grammar. I mean next year as in 2025 because the current league year already started.
$31M is the dead cap for 2024. Which is only a ~$3M increase from having him on the roster.