Mango
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Posts posted by Mango
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1 hour ago, Doc said:
Don’t know anything about them. How much were the Fortons/their in-laws worth back in, say, 2014?They've been friends and business partners since at least the 90's. They have been worth loads for decades.
They have/had a yacht with a full time staff on it. And no that's not the Pegulas.
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56 minutes ago, Doc said:
You realize how Terry was able to get the money to buy the Bills and Sabres in the first place, right? You think that was all luck (also)? LOL!
But yes, I am familiar with Terry, his relationship with the Fortons, and Fortons in laws that are Terry's business partners. Terry is a geologist by trade. -
3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:
Lots of companies pride themselves in having a flat management style. There’s probably way less that don’t. My point was that President is a legal/business/corporate term. Corporations are required to designate someone as the President. If memory serves, they’re also required to designate somebody as the Secretary. But the latter term doesn’t mean they’re supposed to bring the President coffee. 😉
To the bolded. LOL. No they don't. There is no legal requirement to name a President nor a secretary. Not in NYS, not in FL, and not by the NFL. You are just throwing short at the wall and hoping something sticks.
In my time working for and with multi-billion dollar brands there are a lot less brands that take a (relegated to) marketing executive and have them not only sit in meetings for hirings well outside of their field of expertise or department, but give their voice significant weight. But sure, maybe the bazillion start ups that try and stupidly emulate google far outweigh that.
We have not yet seen Pegula organize people in a way that breeds success. We have seen McBeane do it, and that includes also controlling Pegula. But when given (taking?) full control Ter-Bear has yet to show the ability to do that at scale.
Even if your point were true (which again, it is not. It is blatantly false), there is zero reason why a figure head President relgated to marketing should be present in the hiring of football ops unless 1. they aren't just a figure head and/or 2. their opinion carried significant weight however unqualified/undeserving to give it.
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4 minutes ago, Doc said:
About whom did Brandon say that?And he “resigned” in May of 2018. The Bills were already on the right track by then.
He said that to Terry, about Rex. That's been quoted a billion times
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1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:
I assume your problem is with the word ‘relegated’? It’s not at all uncommon for a high level corporate officer to have come from a specific specialty (ie marketing) within the company.
BTW: “President” is a corporate title required by law to be named once you declare yourself to be a corporation for tax purposes. It does NOT mean that you’re everyone’s boss.
Terry Pegula famously runs a flat management style where anybody can bring him anything and he becomes the arbiter.
Fairburn just wrote a whole article about how Adams got to speak out of pocket to Pegula since day one. And you think when Brandon says "Terry don't let him leave without a contract" Terry is turning around and saying "STFU Russ, not your job, you've been relegated to marketing"
Lolz.
If it weren't for Brandon's missteps the Bills would be trending like th Sabres. Russ Brandon is basically Kevyn Adams 1.0.
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1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:
now that you mention it, it's been only "a minute" since the Sabres were in the playoffs!
but yeah, it took Pegula 3 long years to wake up and dump Whaley and Russ. the time did not pass quickly.
Also, Buffalo Bill did not ****** those victims in the pit: he made clothing out of them...so analogy was on point.
Imagine describing somebody as being "relagated to the marketing side" when he's literally the President of two pro sports franchises owned by a guy who proudly wears "flat management structure" on his sleeve.
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On 6/16/2025 at 7:35 AM, Another Fan said:
Or I’ll just say for the sake of argument average quarterback play.
I’d say only 8 or 9.
Point being I think too much is still put on his shoulders to carry the team.
I think the O/U is probably at about 8.5.
My big question is are we talking IR'd Josh or do we get to spend his cap number to help the team?
If I get to spend the money I'll take the over. If I don't, I am not sure.
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42 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:
Terry is not much of a public speaker. But he might be in his box watching.
Especially one who kept their favorite team from moving. Short memories.
You think 20k people didn't see Pegula in his box watching? That's what we're leaning on?
Hopefully one day we can be unsure if Terry is in attendance for a Stanley Cup (LoL) or Super Bowl. Because the leagues and leadership between the three leagues are so similar, lolz.
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30 minutes ago, FireChans said:
Baker has been awesome, but I don't think it's a slight or unfair to say that QB's worse than him aren't worth paying/aren't franchise. Heck, Baker took 19th best QB in the NFL money just last year.
You can be better than Derek Carr or Andy Dalton and still be the last of the franchise QBs. It just means the tide has risen imo.
Darnold feels like he's not it because his career is filled with very bad years. He's more of a 1 year wonder than a franchise QB at this point imo.
I think Baker is a top 10 QB. The problem here might be who we are considering franchise QB's. For me it is any QB that a franchise has or will hitch their wagons to with a fresh contract. So I don't have Caleb Williams but I do have Jayden Daniels. It doesn't mean Caleb won't be one. But he isn't right now.
If you think there are only 10 franchise QB's, then sure, maybe. But if you think there are 15 or so it isn't really close. Absolutely not.
Rough order for me
Allen
MahomesLamar
Burrow
HurtsStafford
Daniels
Baker
Stroud
Purdy
LoveLawrence
DakTua
Murray
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2
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19 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:
Proof?
It has been a topic for three straight years after they win. He just sends in a short statement. Bandits threads generally devolve into laughing that they are happy not to have him him around because he struggles with the Sabres. The comments are littered with stuff like "Keep the bad juju away, we are doing fine without him".
I am not sure what proof you are looking for? Like a picture of him holding the days paper at his house in Florida, with that days 10pm news on in the background?
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14 hours ago, Lagoon Blues said:
No matter what there will always be people who dislike men who show their emotions.
I am not sure that is what is going on here. I cry every time I watch Cool Runnings (literally, the whole crowd clapping at the end always gets me).
My quick, and uneducated $0.02 on this is that the topic is more about Beane maybe lacking some level of professionalism, tact, and/or having some thin skinned. I think there is some confusion between emotional and sensitive. Neither might be a great fit here.
I don't think the criticism is Beane telling people that people criticizing his work sometimes hurts his feelings. I think the criticism is attacking talking heads for dumb hot takes and calling data aggregates because they reported that their algorithm ranks him, his team, and/or his work poorly.I am fairly ambivalent on this one. It is professional sports and the NFL. They can be aggressive. Part of me felt like the WGR outburts was refreshing. But it is also strange we are hearing about another instance where he called somebody to mother fork them about an opinion he didn't like.
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1 hour ago, FireChans said:
Aw poor Beane, having to deal with the tough gestapo-controlled Buffalo media who have fawned over him for like 8 years.
I'm sorry, are you trying to tell me that One Bills Live is not just fair and balanced reporting and that they don't have the freedom to be as critical as they want to be of any facet of the Bills organization?
I found the Beane WGR incident both refreshing and cringy. It was strange and cathartic.
I think WGR is among the worst sports radio of any NFL city. Their content blows, their programming is lazy, and their sports IQ is too low for how arrogant and condescending they are.
But at the same time, Beane my guy, if you can't handle Schopp's garbage and patronizing takes you'd have a hard time in other cities.
13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:Yeah I think those run-ins are probably the tip of the iceberg with Beane behind the scenes though. He's a shyster so I never had any doubt that he would attack media or make threats behind the scenes. The people who think he's just an ordinary "aw shucks" guy like he generally tries to portray himself as are the one's who he's puppeted. If his personnel work catches up with his skill in lying and manipulating he will get up there with Howie as a top GM. Hopefully that can coincide with Allen still being in his prime.
This is a bit more of an aggressive take than I would say, but we're in the same arena.
I think the WGR moment and whatever happened with PFF is likely partially due to being coddled by local media. The staff is at a tipping point. The expectations are leveled up so he's gone from hero and saving the franchise to being partially blamed for falling short of the new expectations.
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14 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:
Sure! The Owners had a big meeting and put a PowerPoint presentation together that told their employees ‘you need to work harder so I can vacation in Aspen’……sure, that sounds right!
They legit had the meeting, told people they weren't getting raises, and put up a slide about maintaining their family lifestyle.
I am just a guy on the internet who was dating somebody in the building at that time. (Fun fact, Josh Allen moved to Corona because the Labatt rep no called/no showed to their meeting).
I get it, you don't have to believe me.
But it's also strange that you have a copy of the slide and an article about multiple sources also corroborating something similar and you still go "meh, I don't think this stranger I don't know would do that"
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12 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:
And you believe that story? Honestly?
They shared a building with Labatt. Two businesses that worked together often. I know a handful of people who can corroborate the story.
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4 minutes ago, FireChans said:
I don’t know why folks say that Buffalo has never won a championship, I won our beer league last year.
I think it’s not a stretch to say that the Buffalo region isn’t financially prepared to support the Sabres if they are terrible.
Habs are clearly a much better franchise but even at 3 straight bottom of the conference finishes, they led the league in attendance in 23-24.
That's fair. I do think the region can support the Sabres through 5-ish terrible years. But they're not equipped to support them through the worst draught in NHL history. Which is about 3x of what I think the region is capable of.
That said, I'm not sure how many regions would support this run. It's never happened before.
If the Sabres were the 8th best team in the conference for 14 years they'd still be top 10 in attendance instead of bottom 5.
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7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:
Honestly Buffalo certainly is hockey crazy
It's basically connected to Canada and the cultures intertwined
Buffalo breeds hockey players
Like the city and the surrounding suburbs
The sabers certainly have a big fan base.. it's just they want top dollar for consistent year after year let downs and that just makes it tough
In the NHL we're eight teams make the playoffs per conference and there is also parody it's crazy that the sabres have went this long without the playoffs
especially for a once proud franchise
When Pegula bought the team the Sabres were averaging 99% attendance. They were near the top of the league for capacity for arenas without standing room only (who break 100%) and top 10 overall.
The Bills and Sabres regularly sold out during the Bills draught. Anybody saying the Sabres suck because of the region can't have two teams is just making excuses.
The day Terry Pegula bought the team the Sabres total P% was 4th in the league. They were easily the best franchise to never win a cup. They've plummeted to 14th.
To give anybody an idea of how deep that hole is. If you took Scotty Bowman's best 10 single years coaching, and linked them back to back to back, the Sabres still would not get back the 4th overall.
Think about that. A decade of the very best years from the very best coach could not get Buffalo back to where they were pre-Pegula.
This franchise is historically bad.
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1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:
How many owners have any clue about running their teams? Bob Kraft? How's he doing with the Pats now that Brady left? What you said is probably true about 80% of sports owners.
Bottom line: The Bills are still the Buffalo Bills because of Terry & Kim Pegula.
Bob Kraft has by and large been a good NFL owner and has run a stable organization for two decades. Even pre-Brady, Kraft has been in the SB.
They may be sticking a bit to get grounded, but he gets a little extra rope because, well, he hasn't had the worst run as an owner in the history of the NHL. The Pegula Sabres are arguably one of the worst runs by an owner in all of sports ownership history.
18 minutes ago, FireChans said:Are you seriously asking why Terry’s results in professional leagues matters more than rec leagues?
No dude, they are totally the same.
John Tavares, the current HC, and maybe the greatest NLL player ever, is currently a HS math teacher in Mississauga as well.
So yeah, NHL, NFL, NLL. Tomato Tomato.
And again, Pegula has never been to one single Bandits Championship game.
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2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:
I find it slightly weird, and very on-brand for Buffalo, that Terry Pegula is hated for the Sabres more than he's given credit for how his other teams do. The Bills are awesome, the Bandits are a dynasty and the Amerks have deep playoff runs every season. Why do we always focus on the negative?
They dont have a deep playoff run every season. In fact they missed a bunch of times and then went years without winning one playoff game.
There is no way that anybody legitimately believes that 1. Running an NLL team is comparable to the NFL,MLB, NBA, OR NHL. And 2. That Pegula has 1/8th of the involvement in the Bandits as he does the Sabres or Bills?
If you have full faith that Terry Pegula could tear this thing down and rebuild it again, by hiring the right GM and HC combo by himself, then I also have a bridge I would like to sell you.
Terry's most successful franchise is the one he gives less than zero forks about. He hasn't attended a single one of their championship games. Lol
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One cannot look at a franchise that keeps Kevyn Adams as GM and long time Pegula family friend Jerry Forton employed and think that they are either 1. Well run or 2. Trying to legitimately win hockey games.
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2 hours ago, JPL7 said:
Yes, I remember all of that. And that really is an idiot thing to say at any point in time, but especially during that chaotic period We all lived in.
I guess my point is, what is the difference between having the various teams they own under PSE as opposed to owning them but not under one umbrella?
For instance, I once worked for Kroenke sports and entertainment, which owns the Colorado avalanche (NHL), Denver Nuggets (NBA) Colorado Rapids (MLS), Colorado mammoth (NLL), etc. What’s the benefit to having them under one umbrella, as opposed to not having them under one umbrella anymore, to go so far to dissolve PSE?!
Not a lawyer. My my quick two cents is that One Buffalo becomes a marketing ploy under PSE. But as the Sabres spiral, including them isn't awesome. But additionally if they aren't all officially under one roof I think it makes it easier to divest from each one as needed.
I think that the dissolution of PSE also allowed the the opportunity to renegotiate any lease agreements. Pegula axed PSE, renegotiated the Blue Cross Arena lease, pulled out of operating the arena, and then Erie County bails on renewing the lease with Pegula and kicks it to the city after the org tried to make it seem like repairs fell on the county (they don't). Fast forward a few months to a year and Pegula has shortened the term on the Amerks lease at BCA from 8 to 5 years (after saying they wouldn't), officially listed the Knighthawks as for sale/stepping down as of 6/30, and we still have no resolution or even whispers on the KBC.
Is there one thing that makes me think that Pegula is 100% selling the Sabres? No. But the above pattern seems to point in that direction, paired with the fact that he has been at or near bottom of the league in spending the last 5-6 years. At every step in the above the Pegula camp said "Don't worry, we aren't going to do the thing your worried about". Then they kept doing the thing, the walked out on the agreement, they shortened the Amerks lease, they officially listed the Knighthawks for sale after saying that they were comitted to Rochester.I think what happens to the KBC will be telling. Anything around a 5 year agreement would give me pause, 10 would make me feel safer, but not 100% confident. For reference the last lease was 30 years and the new Bills stadium lease is also 30 years and the prior was 10.
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2 minutes ago, Augie said:
I remember that storyline, but I’m weak on the details. Exactly whose account of that meeting are we relying upon? What was the context and what were the exact words? This always sounded a lot like sour grapes to me, with a disgruntled employee flavor to it. I’m not sure I’m buying the ugliest version of this tale. It’s made to sound as though they look down on the staff with disdain, and I don’t think that is the case.
I think Einstein is being hyperbolic.
But I had a number of friends in the building at the time, there was in fact a slide, that Kim herself presented, that listed bluntly that one of the core pillars of PSE was "maintain family lifestyle".
PSE used to share the building with Labatt.
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2 hours ago, Doc said:
Gee, another irrational Pergula hater joins in. Color me shocked…When a guy has a historically bad run with a team in the big 4 leagues, it is not irrational to go "man this guy could really be a major liability in the post McBeane/Allen era".
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16 minutes ago, Doc said:
Yup. That’s the problem with hoping for a new owner.
If you didn’t think much of your GM in the first place…Then you fire th GM,full stop, you don't rely on yourself and the marketing guy to take over the responsibility.
Pegula has a history of overruling his personnel people in both orgs.
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2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:
And the Bills and Amerks are both pretty strong. Only the Sabres lag. In other words, it all sucks. 🙄
Given the perceived strength of the prospect pool, I thought it was all but universally agreed upon that the Amerks have largely underperformed expectations. They have had huge gaps in their game.
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Bucket List Weekend - need NYC Reco's
in The Stadium Wall
Posted · Edited by Mango
I'd add the Comedy Cellar for sure. It's iconic. And the atmosphere is unmatched. Probably too early to get a ticket now. I think they book a month or so out. I can't recommend this enough. Cover is like $14 plus 2 drink minimum.
Go a little early and grab a seat at the Olive Tree right above it. That's where alot of the comics hang out before hand. You can catch comedians like Burr, Normand, Jenson just shooting the shirt before they go on.
Also not sure where you're from, but do some digging on food. Sports bars are 'fine' but I'd certainly use it as an excuse to go chase awesome versions of your favorites or explore stuff you normally can't get at home. Don't rely on little Italy if youre looking for Italian.
Forewarning, the food in mid town blows. It's meh.
Liberty Bagel on 35th is my favorite bagel in NYC though, so it's one of the very few exceptions. But there are better places for smoked fish.
Los Tacos No 1 are popping up everywhere. They look like a chain, maybe they are now, but they started as a food cart/truck. They're legit.
Speaking of Tacos, there's Taqueria St Marks. It's not fancy but good vibes and good tacos. Feels like a cross between Essex St Pub and The Pink.
Kame Ramen on 8th is one of my favorite Ramens. It is in mid town and it's one of the few exceptions for things that don't suck around there. I'd put it up there with others in the East Village.
Saigon Bahn Mi in China Town is my favorite Bahn Mi anywhere and that sandwich is my favorite of sandwich of them all. It's like $10. Get it (#1) spicy and with pate.
Katz isn't just a tourist trap. It's legit and worth it.
I've done Penn 6 a couple of times for Bills events. It's been good.
I'm in and out of the city a bit for work and my doctors.