dayman

LOL Crayonz is literally out of his mind w/ that script deal

RI Bills owns you

We was literally the greatest player to ever play at UF

IDK was RI Bills Fan gentle?

Heat NBA champions. Give props now even if you hate them...they earned it and won in spectacular fashion

LOL b/c what should be rhetorical questions off topic deserve no response. <br>

True and I get that but if you are undeniably wrong you can't just..continue to be wrong even when you and everybody else knows it can you?

In some rare instance where there would be no political gain either way nobody in Congress would care it would be left to the exec to clean it up as their mess. perjury lol ... !@#$ing after the deadline wow .... 3rd party auto edit failing me? I must have misspelled it to begin with but that isn't even a word to change to...damn just missed another error...per this edit AND...it's not on...so I just spelled it that way to begin with haha !@#$ you Tom *activate after the deadline* haha

Let's make a deal...if Holder is convicted of purgery I'll leave PPP forever...if it is not proven he lied before Congress you leave. Easiest way to exile you from your home ... Congressional subpoena power over the executive for purposes of oversight just isn't that powerful plain and simple. If Congress wants to stick their nose up everybody's asses then let them try but don't get all defensive when it's clear they're out of control and out of political blood. The gov't is not one giant gov't and internal processes and deliberations of particular agencies are protected for reasonable justificationtions.

Nobody EVER just "gives" the documents ... EVER ...

LOL...I think you are confusing your classification of taxes in your thought process Ciga...direct and indirect tax distinction is important in this debate. A quick google of the whiskey rebellion (which I had no idea what it was honestly before now) shows Tom is basically right. And the responses by you regarding the banning don't make much sense. The first thing I jumped to was opium but when I looked it up it was after the 16th...so I wasn't instantly confirmed but ... IDK really what you are talking about Cinga...your initial post was off the mark just admit and move on .... or produce something that shows the taxing and spending clause basically doesn't exist in the original text of the constitution or I and Hamilton himself don't understand it...

making it "uniform" not "equal"...as in a cig tax applies in all states if it applies but not that it is not allowed b/c some people don't smoke... Just point me to where you think that uniform excise taxes per the taxing and spending clause was somehow more limited in the realm of clear indirect taxes (such as cigs) before the 16th amendment I would like to look at it.

hmmm...not certain about this btw (be sure to clarify that)

Hey the honest truth is tracing the origins of taxing power through time is pretty convoluted I'm interested to hear what you have to say (this discussion is interesting) but it appears to me through the taxing and spending clause and bolstering from other clauses you are wrong...I'm no expert on the historical evolution but some quick research that I've done so far has confirmed my initial impulse

See opium...inderect tax cmerxe clause etc

They could tax smoking and drinking before the 16th amendment.

B-man I feel for you man, I don't doubt you believe this is a totally legitimate investigation and Issa and his irk are simply proceeding as they are compelled to by their conscious and sense of obligation to their office. I feel for you.

LOL what are you talking about "designed to ignore gun sales?" We KNOW what it was designed to do, it was a !@#$ing sting...it wasn't "designed" to give guns to Mexican Cartels and just let them walk away and be ignored Joe... and we know they kept losing track of the guns and couldn't execute it, and we know finally it was ended b/c of that. And any idiot can tell that there was incompetence or else they wouldn't have sold a bunch of guns to criminals. The idea this is some huge conspiracy where we don't know "what is going on" is crazy Joe C'MON MAN (in my best Chris Carter voice)

If you can't see this as what it is...you straight up cannot talk about anything with anyone except other people who 1) are stupid enough to feel they have a "team" plain and simple in politics and 2) who have your team and are enthusiastic about it. This is as transparent as it gets. It's that simple. As for the "programs" argument...it's irrelevant. It's the practice that matters...that's what the ATF had been doing period...for quite sometime...it was messing it up for a while...and finally after a huge mess up was ended under Holder. That's it. "Program" labels matter not the entire dispute over 1 program continuing and morphing or 2 programs is stupid. It was all 1 big thing they had been doing...

Yes, it is. And that's the situation...ATF down there had for some time engaged in stings selling guns and lost quite a few, culminating in a sale where they lost a ton...then the practice was ended (by HOlder himself)...now it's being investigated by everybody b/c why? Eric Holder is in contempt of Congress by vote exactly down the party line why? B/c of a search for the truth and a remedy to this issue? Take off the blinder brother.

Tom...guns don't kill people, people kill people...except that gun and thus Eric Holder killed that border patrol agent...it's the one exception the general rule.

Blaming the gun for the death of that border patrol agent is.

Every time someone is shot from now on, that incident is now directly related the chain of custody of the weapon used for its entire existence. That's something the GOP really wants....ok... And at least you guys came out and said it...you think the program was designed to fail... congratulations....you are now in looneyville. Probably some slow play/diabolical scheme whereby Obama brilliantly executes a long con that ends with him taking away your guns... Why not instantly cooperate fully with the investigation and hand over everything...copies of all interagency memoranda, disclose all internal deliberations? Have you guys not paid attention to history? You've obviously never attempted an FOIA request on your own or been involved in document production on any level. This is how it goes. EVERY TIME. This is not something unusual contrary to what conservative blogs and idiot partisan hacks in the House would have you believe. If you can't see this for what it really is you can't take off your blinders.

Do you think blah blah? Do you think bleh bleh? Do you think the moon rotates around the earth? You are utterly Fox Newsified 3rd. Holder and everybody straight up lies, there's a huge cover up, this is unlike everything that happens with countless presidents, there's some large conspiracy at the heart of this that will surely bring the end of the National Democratic Party and this is all a great and noble investigation by Issa and the House Republicans. There is nothing that will actually come of this that anyone is willing to say with a straight face on this board justifies this behavior from the House GOP...there just isn't. THE TRUTH WHAT ABOUT THE TRUTH!!! Ok every time a mistake happens we turn over all internal documents of all agencies involved to politically charged congress and that's the way our government will work from now on. Not the way it has forever...but the way it now works b/c we say so. A BORDER PATROL AGENT IS DEAD!!! ...not relevant to F&F hate to break it to you. I got to go for a while but someone please explain to me what is so important. All details of this clear **** up be publicly dragged through the dirt by House GOP in the name of the truth? A nonsensical linking of this issue to Holder's family? I mean...ultimately WHY? The answer is pretty obvious to anyone with a view from 10,000 ft. If you are in the midst of a barrage of conservative media and conservative media only I can understand how you may be brainwashed but even then you should step and and say...ok...I can see this for what it is on both sides.

The point is what is the point? What is the point of all this and how does it help? The answer? No point, doesn't help, pure political grandstanding in an attempt to humiliate Holder. Yes there was a **** up, no ****. A department not wanted to make every detail of their **** up public? Wow huge surprise. Republicans want a confrontation here...plain and simple.