TH3
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Ordinarily I ignore childish responses such as these,
but if you want any respect around here you realy, really should think (and check) before you respond.
I post opinion pieces from respected authors and sites.
If you cannot handle that, then its just too bad for you
here is the author of my last post.
S. Fred Singer is professor emeritus at the University of Virginia and director of the Science & Environmental Policy Project. His specialty is atmospheric and space physics. An expert in remote sensing and satellites, he served as the founding director of the US Weather Satellite Service and, more recently, as vice chair of the US National Advisory Committee on Oceans & Atmosphere.
I think I will read and defer to his opinions rather than yours
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Yes good ole Siefried Sawyer....also on the right side of so many things....like UV does not call skin cancer, CFC does not cause ozone depletion, and second hand smoke is inconsequential (probably forgot to ask flight attendants).
Might want to try to hitch your wagon up to someone with a better batting average....
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/S._Fred_Singer
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Cutting a link from a clearly slanted source is hardly weight.....
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So a graph with actual data and math gets skewered - but a cut and paste article from a propaganda site is cool?
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Well Obama seems to disagree tossing out executive orders like a Vegas black jack dealer with total disregard for the Constitution.
Better check your stats sharky....BO has only a fraction of executive orders that most presidents have..
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php
Any sane country would do this. Problem the current administration is anything but. Our president hates his country so he is in no hurry to make it strong. We also have the new religion of environmentalism that the president is more than happy to appease. Just a couple hurdles on the way to sensibility.
Really - "He hates this country" ? Come on statements like that just undermine any other relevant statements you might come up with...
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OCinBuffalo, on 21 March 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:Yet again you drop another thoughtless assertion.
Our health care costs ARE on par with the rest of the world's. The difference is: we report our health care cost straight up, all of them.
They do not. They look at what "they" are paying, ONLY in terms of what the government is paying. They don't account for side payments(because they are illegal, but everybody does it) or private insurance in their "per capital health care spending" charts.
You need to understand the very real difference between what is actually happening, and some report you get sitting at your school board meeting. They are not the same thing.
What you will get if we do what "everybody else" does: sure, you'll get your nice report that says costs have gone down, and therefore your district has to pay less. And, if that's all you care about, getting that report, then fine, but: it's a lie. It's a lie, because instead of really paying for health care, the government is just setting an abritrary, low reimbursement rate, and then? The providers start taking the "side payments" to deliver care/see your health care enrollees first, which make them whole.
The teacher's union will work something out with the local hospital, so teacher's get first crack, but you aren't in that union, so either you grease some palms at the emergency room, or, you wait for 3 days.
That's the reality of the rest of the world's fake, "low health care costs" here. You want nice cost reports that show you're doing a good job on the school board? Hell, I can print out all sorts of nice reports for you using this: http://d3js.org/ but the underlying data will all be a lie.
Rather than actually cutting costs, all the rest of the world does: move those costs from one payer to another, and report on the difference.
Single Payer: one of the biggest lies ever, because in any Single Payer system, you will always find multiple payers. Always.
You want to focus on costs, fine, let's do that. But, just stop with this is "rest of the world" crap. Again, your assertion is completely false.
For one - i have not proposed ANY HC programs - so get off my back.
Second - got ANY reports etc that show these "shadow costs" that other countries have?
Waiting for OC to answer this......
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If they were wrong about that, what else are they wrong about?
Why is it wrong to use anecdotal evidence to prove GW but OK to disprove......?
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Now you've gone and done it! You should not have poked the bear.
Bueller......
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Apparently Not!
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Dude has a working office at his house in Texas, and he went to, ugh-um, his house, in Texas. He didn't spend close to what Obama does, when Obama goes on security heavy and tons of money vacations. Please tell me you understand the difference?
My point is BOTH observations sound so stupid....
Please tell me you get it.....
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President George W. Bush. During his two terms, Bush took 879 vacation days, which included 77 total trips to his Crawford, Tex., ranch. Nine of those trips were taken in his first year as president.
While Bush holds the record for the longest modern presidential vacation for his five-week recess in 2005 in Crawford, the all-time record holder is John Adams who took eight months off in 1799
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Yet again you drop another thoughtless assertion.
Our health care costs ARE on par with the rest of the world's. The difference is: we report our health care cost straight up, all of them.
They do not. They look at what "they" are paying, ONLY in terms of what the government is paying. They don't account for side payments(because they are illegal, but everybody does it) or private insurance in their "per capital health care spending" charts.
You need to understand the very real difference between what is actually happening, and some report you get sitting at your school board meeting. They are not the same thing.
What you will get if we do what "everybody else" does: sure, you'll get your nice report that says costs have gone down, and therefore your district has to pay less. And, if that's all you care about, getting that report, then fine, but: it's a lie. It's a lie, because instead of really paying for health care, the government is just setting an abritrary, low reimbursement rate, and then? The providers start taking the "side payments" to deliver care/see your health care enrollees first, which make them whole.
The teacher's union will work something out with the local hospital, so teacher's get first crack, but you aren't in that union, so either you grease some palms at the emergency room, or, you wait for 3 days.
That's the reality of the rest of the world's fake, "low health care costs" here. You want nice cost reports that show you're doing a good job on the school board? Hell, I can print out all sorts of nice reports for you using this: http://d3js.org/ but the underlying data will all be a lie.
Rather than actually cutting costs, all the rest of the world does: move those costs from one payer to another, and report on the difference.
Single Payer: one of the biggest lies ever, because in any Single Payer system, you will always find multiple payers. Always.
You want to focus on costs, fine, let's do that. But, just stop with this is "rest of the world" crap. Again, your assertion is completely false.
For one - i have not proposed ANY HC programs - so get off my back.
Second - got ANY reports etc that show these "shadow costs" that other countries have?
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While the issue is at heart a constitutional one, Hobby Lobby is not in this instance appealing to the First Amendment but rather to the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which was passed by a unanimous House, a near-unanimous Senate, signed into law by President Bill Clinton, and certified as constitutional as applied to the federal government in a 2006 Supreme Court decision. The act sets a high standard that the federal government must meet when it burdens the free exercise of religion and was enacted in response to court decisions that had narrowed First Amendment protections.
more at the link
Am I missing something here? Why can't HL's insurance carrier just let the individual purchase an additional rider for contraception? HL doesn't carry it and every insurance company wants their members to have contraception for a multitude of reasons - the Insurance Carrier would probably sell the rider for minimal cost....or does HL prohibit this?
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I haven't read all the way thru this thread....but has ANYONE on here had personal actual experience with the ACA - either on a personal or corporate/business level?
I know opinions are great and all....
I have my own business to small < 50 employees and my small staff is all covered on their spouses plan. Additonal - I simply don't know anyone that can relate an ACA story....anyone?
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My point with HC is this: I worked budgets for 6 years and HC costs are such a budget buster for everyone, public, private...young old....if our HC costs were on par with the rest of the world life would be easier on so many fronts. That's all.
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Because there's a time to have a reasonable conversation....
And that doesn't start with "the right is out of touch with reality"...when the empirical evidence suggests just the opposite.
And, there's a time to call somebody out who makes uselss charges and refuses to back them up with fact....as I've now seen you do 3 times recently.
3 strikes and you're a dumbass, dumbass.
If you read through my school board experience you would see the effort to bring rhetoric into policy is much more complicated and nuanced than "Obama sucks"
Yes - I think the GOP is out of touch with reality. They have no pragmatic alternative to the ACA, no pragmatic executable policy on immigration, they still focus much too much time on losing social commentary, do not recognize global warming (I am not going AG on you), I also think that a huge problem - maybe the biggest we have - is the lack of middle class income growth. I do not see the GOP getting their arms around this. It seems the GOP victories these days are due to redistricting and it makes me sick to see the efforts to change voter laws to constrict voting. Hey - let's win by having better ideas.
Want proof the GOP is out of it. A black community activist with a losing record, an Islamic father, and an Islamic name just kicked the GOP candidates ass in the last election.
I consider myself "R" and don't vote D....but I am terribly disappointed with where the GOP is right now. Our country needs a strong GOP.
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Who, on the school district side actually agrees on the contract? I am aware of the Illinois problem. I have posted here a few times a chart showing school administrators scheduled pensions in that state. Many in the 100's of thousands of dollars annually. One at 680k and due to be worth 1.3mm when he dies.
The law firm interacts with board. Right now due to the tax cap the only variables the board can discuss in relation to the budget is how much the union contributes and - since there is a tax cap - how many positions and offerings (sports, extracurricular) are going to be cut to fit under the cap.
Hey - its just like the salary cap! - Only it is going down and we are all the Cowboys.
The board works in executive session - to affirm the contract - then has an open meeting for discussion.
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In NY, who actually does the negotiating for the school districts?
You are gonna love this.....the district hires a law firm specializing in such matters. Think about....school board members serve for their version of the public good....everyone had full time jobs...and to be of benefit it takes quite a bit of time....just to add value to the conversation. Much of the budget is boiler plate and is simply cut and pasted from year to year so the brass tacks are "step raises" which are automatics for years served and further accreditation. The other budget elements are the district contribution to retirement fund (they send you a bill - pray for a good stock market). NYS has for the most part, done a good job in keeping this adequately funded - Illinois not so much. Want to blame someone in Illinois? Blame your legislators.....its just math.
The other element is health care. In my 6 years ending last year HC costs went up about 74 percent....and the only negotition hinge was how much teachers contribute. NYS has wonderful laws limiting negotiation so if there is no contract the teachers operate under the terms of the old one.....so why would the union ever concede anything?
So the current situation to change things is very limited.....you can bring your "don't tread on me flag" with you but its not going to get you far.
My personal view is Cuomo has set the stage for the voters to finally get pissed enough to force legislators to change the ability to negotiate. With the tax cap already over every year with step raises and benefit contribution escalation.....almost every district is now in the business of cutting scope every year. The Cuomo tax cap is like a boa constrictor squeezing each district....the pain is about to become very acute. It is upto the voters to change the game.
My thoughts on HC are simple....you look at budgets and there sky rocketing costs coupled now with the tax cap and it reality is hitting home. The all up costs of a teacher are over 2x their salary. I stared at this algorythm for 6 years.
Forgive typos. Ipad!
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The teachers are more for the unions than they are for the kids.
I can only speak from my experience......and yours is....?
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The basis of this thread was a Thomas Sowell column and in that column he was referring to inner city schools vs. charter schools in the same neighborhood. While I don't doubt that more concerned parents means better results, I don't think that is all of it. Otherwise it is a gigantic indictment of inner city parents. You have made it clear that you have some knowledge regarding school budgeting. Would you agree that the unions have the districts by the balls and really don't give two schits about the students?
Let's separate the teachers and the unions....teachers I have found to be "for the kids"...the unions not so much - especially in NY where the laws handcuff the districts hands - I wouldn't say they don't give 2 about the students - they are there to negotiate for their members.
Don't get me wrong - I am not "pro" union. It was not the number one issue in our district - if the NY voters would elect people who would let districts negotiate...that would be good.
As far as Takeyoutasker: You are all over the place - but seeing as you are the smartest man in the room AND hold the earth up...I see you are busy...
- I am not against charter schools and I don't say that schools have the answers - nor should they - umm said that for the THIRD time.
- I would say 1/3 of kids don't belong in college, don't want to go to college and will end up in the trades - which actually pay very well. Why put them through 4 years of college prep to fail? - the government bureaucracy seems to be predetermining that every kid should go college prep - isn't this the same thing? Calm down - maybe the kid and his parents are picking a trade....not forcing anyone to do anything....
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"Why not address military spending? Or entitlements? Or wasteful and redundant departments and their entire budgets?" - We should!
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"This is absurd, but again, not for this thread". - Whatever...but seeing how smart you are....
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"What in the seven hells do private healthcare costs have to do with public budgets?" I am not talking about private HC costs - I am talking about my experience funding teachers HC - which by the way is delivered by the same private insurers as the private sector - so the costs are the same. Teachers contribute 7 percent in our district - NYS average is around 16 percent. You can compare that to what you contribute.
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"The problem is unions, not healthcare." Never said the unions weren't a problem oh smart one. As I said the unions would rather see staff cut to meet budget than contribute more to their benefit package -sorry if I did not motherf$%k them - I thought that statement spoke for itself.
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Wouldn't you like it if our HC costs were more in line with the rest of the world?
- I am not against charter schools and I don't say that schools have the answers - nor should they - umm said that for the THIRD time.
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Well, you freely admit that charter schools make it better for some kids. In your opinion, what is it that makes them better?
Charter schools have some leeway in structure - but - but - without doing any research I would look first at that the demographic selection of the students. More concerned parents, better students ....
I was fortunate to serve in a district with mostly middle class+ kids with solid family foundations. Our district performed very well on a cost/performance basis. Our struggles are/were mostly budgeting - and I can say the big pinch is coming.
In NY right now - you will see a steady constriction of offerings. The step raises alone typically will eat up the tax levy cap let alone benefit (retirement and health care) growth. So without doing anything - most school districts are over the tax cap every year - already...
It is difficult to negotiate with the union - the union would rather see positions cut than contribute more to HC or retirement (typical health care contributions are 14-16 percent).
That is why I get back to HC costs - if they were half - like the rest of the world - that would provide quite a bit of room.
As one can see....ideology is fun to talk about - but at the end of the day - societal policy is incredibly complicated and integrated and rarely lends itself to simple answers.
Charter schools could be "seeds" of promise - the harder part is reloading the whole system.
Just my 2 cents....take it as some insider or toss
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Why don't you, then, walk us through what his point was.
God, you guys have short fuses and are sooooo sure of yourselves - but I am sure you have school board experience like me so..... I was asked if I was for or against charter schools. I think my answer outlines that question - if you would calm the f%$k down. Charter schools are fine- but are not the "answer". Schools cannot make up the deficit that these kids bring to the table and charter schools only create a better place for SOME kids.
I suggest that schools/parents/students SHOULD identify achievable careers for kids. Not all students are college capable and we should not spend 4 years of high school working toward that end. In Europe - kids not on a college path pick a trade and spend 4-6 years learning that trade - come out and are capable, productive, taxpaying citizens.
My point about health care is this: It is an all encompassing issue that we should all have a sane - grown up - conversation about. We pay over 2x per person what every other industrialized country pays. So instead of having 9-10 percent of GDP going to HC we have 17-19 percent. This existed before the ACA and I do not know what effect the ACA will have - but I am sure it will not get us into the range of everyone else.
If our HC costs were on par with the rest of the world - our federal deficit would be cured for now and moving forward - and - after having worked on a school board for 6 years - I can tell you the #1 issue is health care costs - not charter schools, not unions, not crayon colors or school lunches or creationism. Our inability to control HC costs cripples budgets and now is saliently reducing the scope and the performance of our schools.
Everything - everything in our country - would be better if we had a different and better health care funding, cost and delivery structure.
FYI - I voted for Gary Johnson - so you know where I stand politically. Our land has a number of issues - and many of them are VERY complex and not suited to one dimensional
answers.BTW - I cannot say what the answer is for school districts like Buffalo - its is a shame though because education is the one sure answer to demographic mobility.
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So, I would think that the vast majority of us here would agree that education is extremely important. Charter schools, for the most part do a better job of educating than public schools. They come out even better when compared to inner city schools. Are you for or against charter schools?
I am not "against" charter schools - but don't think they are the "answer". I was on a suburban Erie County School board for two terms - 6 years - and can offer the following:
Unions are a hindrance and add cost - but they are not the primary reason for poor school performance. In NYS the "union" is especially acute right now because of the tax levy cap. Districts are essentially held to the cap, state aid is going down, budget have been tight already - therefore there are two paths - get union concessions on contributions, pay steps, etc - or cut teachers and scope of offerings. The district has no choice but to cut scope of offerings. Until the VOTERS tire of this - this trend will continue.
The primary cause of poor school performance is the demographics of the students - that is all. Charter schools, school vouchers etc will enable a small percentage of students to get a better situation - but the underlying problem is not solved - students simply not prepared, or capable of school performance.
The City of Buffalo spends inordinate amounts of money trying to be better parents to the students - breakfast, lunch, discipline, attendance etc - but it doesn't work - as seen in the results. Swap City teachers for Clarence teachers - my gut says student performance stays the same,
The entire school structure needs to be rethought - students need to be ability tested in late middle school - not all kids should be on a college track - this is what Europe does and it works well.
Schools cannot make up for poor student demographics.
Look around the world - the best countries have one thing in common - strong public schools. I for the most think that public education is doing a good to very good job - except for the inner cities.
If you really want to help school districts and cost escalation - the US has to lower our health care costs.
Who's too chickenshit to back up his "Rs aren't dealing with reality" charge?
I just gave you a reality barometer, and then I gave you the answers.
I'm trying to help you get your head on straight, dumbass.
If I thought there was a reasonable conversation ahead - I would participate - but why would you want to converse when you already have all the answers and I am a dumb ass.
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So stop food stamps, earned income credit, heap, unemployment insurance and.....boom....bam.....presto....poverty, unemplyment, the poor........solved?
The Affordable Care Act II - Because Mr. Obama Loves You All
in Politics, Polls, and Pundits
Posted
Still waiting for OC's data that shows other industrialized countries costs are the same as USA due to shadow costs