Wizard
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Posts posted by Wizard
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To answer your question, the last time we traded down was 2001.
The Bills traded their first-round selection (14th overall, used to select Kenyatta Walker) to Tampa Bay for their first-round selection (21st overall, used to select Nate Clements). They then traded their newly acquired second-round selection (51st overall, used to select Paul Toviessi) to Denver for their second-round selection (58th overall, used to select Travis Henry) and their fourth-round selection (110th overall, used to select Brandon Spoon). The Bills also had a 46th pick in the 2nd and selected Aaron Schoebel.
Of the five players - Walker (14- TB), Clements (21-Buf), Schoebel (46-Buf), Toviessi (51-Denver), and Henry (58-Buf) all five of the Buffalo players played in a Pro Bowl.
Walker lasted 6 seasons and never was able to be the solid LT that Tampa Bay was looking for.
Clements played for 5 years in Buffalo and was a Pro Bowler in 2004. In 2007 Clements became the highest paid defensive player in NFL history after signing an eight-year, $80 million with $22 million guaranteed deal with the San Francisco 49ers. He had many injuries and never played to the level he did as Bill.
Schoebel played his entire career with the Bills, retiring in 2010. He made Pro Bowls in 06 and 07. he is one of the all time leaders in games played for a defensive linemen and also in sacks.
Toviessi was injured as a rookie and never played a down in the NFL
Henry made the Pro Bowl as a Bill in 2002. He was traded to the Titans in 2005 for a 3rd round pick (lost his job to McGahee in 2004) and also played for the Broncos. He never reached the same level as his early days with the Bills. He also had significant off field issues.
Wow! Thanks...it seems like trading down worked in the past...let's do it again
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Question: When was the last time Buffalo traded down in the first round of a draft? Let me know.
As far as I'm concerned, this is the year for Buffalo to trade down in the 1st round to stockpile more picks. A lot of teams need quarterbacks and the Bills will probably be the first team to have a true need for a quarterback. I'm not a huge Fitz supporter but I'd rather have him, a 1st round pick, and two potential extra picks than having Fitz and a Mallett/Newton/Locker/etc. The Panthers, Broncos, and Browns who draft right around us all selected quarterbacks last year (Clausen, Tebow, and McCoy), sot he chances of them taking the first rated quarterback (with Luck being out of the draft now) is really good.
Arizona, San Francisco, Tennessee, and Washington all pick in the top 10 and have just as bad of quarterback needs as Buffalo does long-term.
THIS IS THE YEAR TO TRADE DOWN!
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In my cartoon world (and many other Bills fans), the Bills would get Haloti Ngata and put him alongside Kyle Williams in a 4-3 front. Realistically though, a top 3 DT like Ngata isn't coming to Bufffalo. However, Chad Greenway (Minnesota Vikings) is the type of quality linebacker that could really help the front 7 and the Bills organization ought to take a look at him in free agency. Greenway is young and consistent. He is an above-average player without a lot of press. He plays in Minnesota's 4-3; however, his versatility allows him to blitz and drop into coverage. Obviously, he benefits from his usally strong defensive line. Still, he has more talent than any current linebacker on our roster. Because the Vikings had such a poor year and he is a free agent, the Bills ought to take a long look at this guy.
- Adding Greenway to the front 7 will only be more valuable if the Bills add one of those DT's or DE's that are constantly mentioned in the top 10 picks of the draft. Greenway has the skill-set to fit "hybrid/multiple front" looks Chan Gailey mentioned about the future defense. Also, he is talented enough to be a good upgrade without breaking the bank and would be a high quality under-the-radar signing for the team's poor defense.
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Did you really say a pick or two?
McGee is a good corner, but at his age and recent injury history, Buffalo would be thrilled to get a 6th round pick for him. If you meant two picks, did you mean two 7th round picks? McGee isn't fetching anything higher than a 6th.
Things aren't going well, so McGee conveniently turns up injured. At least with Green we know mgmt told him to act injured (and none of us want him on the field anyway). But with McGee can't help but feel he's doing it all on his own.
If he doesn't want to be here, tired of the losing, fine. Why not get a pick or two for him and let him move on?
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If Luck isn't there and we don't have one of the first 3 picks, I suspect we go with Marcell Dareus as a 3-4 DE or Robert Quinn as an OLB. Both of those guys are beasts. We haven't had an athlete like either one of those guys since Bruce was here IMHO.
Exactly...Dareus is an attacking 3-4 end and Quinn is considered a true rush linebacker with size and speed. If I'm picking for the Bills and Luck isn't available or doesn't want to come to Buffalo, I'm trading down and/or taking these guys.
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The defense is nothing short of a dumpster fire, especially the front seven. So, as crappy as the offense is...this defense is offensive. Fire the DC and start over with the front seven.
Here are four (4) reasons why the defense is that bad:
- The Bills have the worst run defense (more than 170+yards a game) and gave up more than 200 to Jacksonville.
- The Bills have the second worst percentage of stops on 3rd down. Teams convert more than 50% of the time on this defense.
- The Bills have only one interception as a team. This is tied for last in the NFL.
- The Bills are in the bottom five teams in sacks. Buffalo averages 1 sack a game.
The D-Line
I love Kyle Williams grit and his willingness to try hard...but trade him to a 4-3 team since he isn't going to cut it as a NT in a 3-4. Stroud and Edwards are past their prime and obviously don't generate a pass rush of any kind. Carrington and Troup don't see the field much, and considering how bad our defense is and the fact that these guys were 2nd and 3rd round picks, you would hope for a little bit more playing time/production out of them. Our former 1st round pick, McCargo doesn't even get activated...yikes!
Linebackers
Marcedes Lewis clowned our outside linebackers today with two touchdowns. He helped move the chains all day long, especially the 2nd half. It is bound to happen when there isn't one linebacker on this roster that can cover anyone other than Kevin "Paperweight" Ellison. Unfortunately, we are stuck with Kelsay....Davis and Poz are serviceable...otherwise we have high picks (Maybin and Ellis doing nothing for the team) and a bunch of fringe special teamers.
I'm changing my tune. As much as I would like to have the pipedream of getting Andrew Luck, a solid LT in the 2nd round and striking gold with a 7th round receiver like Marques Colston, it is time to fix what this team calls a "defense." Use the first three round picks of 2011 to get the a pash rushing DE/OLB, a OLB that knows how to cover, and a run stuffing DE. Trade any player not fitting the defensive scheme for a player that can replace Maybin, Kelsay, or any of the OLB's. It can't be that hard...just find a corpse... ( a backup on a team that has a top 10 defense) will work!
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Although the Bills and 49er's have the same record, I'd take the 49er's in a heartbeat. The 49er's are better overall in terms of current talent, especially at positions the Bills are really weak in (TE and LB).
Staring QB (Push) Fitzpatrick and Smith both aren't what we would call starting QB's...so I'll call it a push... But hey, both of them scored high on the Wonderlic!
Starting RB (Gore) Gore is a better running back than Jackson or Spiller. Although I think we have more depth
Starting TE (Davis) Davis is one of the better TE's in this league. Who plays TE for Buffalo again?
Top WR (Evans by an inch) Evans is better than Crabtree right now, but I'd take Crabtree over the next five years
OL (49er's) The 49er's line isn't that good, but it is better than the Bills sorry O-line.
LB ( Willis) Willis is a top 5 linebacker in this league. Other than Poz (who is good but not great), the Bills don't have a top 30 LB in this league
Secondary (Bills) The Bills have more depth and overall talent in the secondary, but Nate Clements is still better than any of our current CB's...yes...even more so than McGee, McKelvin, etc.
Coaching (Push) Gailey hasn't done anything yet... Singletary hasn't done anything yet...but I'd probably give the slightest edge to the the 49er's...at least Singletary won something as a player!
History (49er's) Championships, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, and Steve Young (Bills have a great history too but there is something to be said about the # of rings)
***And a critical factor in determining whether the Bills are better than the 49er's....weather. Granted, both teams suck this year, but at least California has great weather year round.
I predict the Bills will finish 2-14 (beat Chicago in Toronto and beat Cleveland)
I predict the 49er's go 3-13 . The team tries hard as was evident against the Eagles by almost coming back and winning the game in the 2nd half.
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The Patriots love draft picks! They already have two 1st's, two 2nd's, two 3rd's, and two 4th's in next year's draft. We might as well give them a product they love and fill some of the Bills needs.
Patriots Receive
- The Bills 3rd Round Pick in 2011
- Patriots receive Drayton Florence or Terrence McGee (Patriots have weak corners)
- Patriots receive Marcus Stroud (Patriots have weak DE's and Stroud cost a lot of money, a salary dump)
Bills Receive
- Logan Mankins
- Tully Banta-Cain (an upgrade at outside linebacker over Moats, Maybin, or Kelsay as our LB crew is horrific)
The Bills still then have their 1st, 2nd, and two fourth round picks (Lynch trade) all while filling two needs and giving the Patriots another draft pick and filling two of their team needs.
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Ok I agree with about 90-95 % of what you said ! Until the Bills do what you posted and what every Bills fans knows The Bills are nothing more than a JV team !
Exactly...common sense...somehow some people get so caught up in being "Homers" (and there is nothing wrong with being passionate about your team), but I'm amazed at irrationality and a lack of honesty in the facts about this team. Many replies seem to support that thought. Until then, I will keep being a fan, but I will accept the Bills as a JV football team in the NFL.
Wow. Pretty impressed with our own opinion, arent' we? While some of the things that you state are probable true, please keep in mind that your opinions are not facts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but facts have to be proven. Stating that someone is no good simply has no merit, because there are no facts to back it up. So while I respect your opinions, they are worth no more than my own or those of anyone else on this board. Your opinion is not necessarily the truth, it's only your personal view.
[/quote
Which war?
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I generally appreciated your well-thought comments, but I can't agree with this one statement, "He is a solid contributor and losing him is just creating more holes we must fill in the draft and FA."
As far as I'm concerned, DE is a top 4 need on this team. Paying someone $6 million a year for four years is a waste of money. Kelsay isn't a difference maker, so he isn't a true contributor to the solution of bettering the Bills defense. I will give you that Kelsay is better at stopping the run than in pass defense, but if Buffalo is last in run defense (they were last year), then obviously, Kelsay can't be that much of a difference in stopping or helping stop the run from one side. Granted, I will give you he is solid in his work ethic, character, and he would make for a fine backup DE, but I would rather lose Kelsay to free agency knowing that Kelsay is being paid quality starter money for quality backup level performance and truly isn't a current or future difference maker for the Bills.
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It all started with the "can't wait to see Brian Brohm threads" and "Fitzpatrick just might be the answer at QB comments." I would love to have a day where a true and intelligent discussion can take place that honestly presents one's opinion in harmony with what skill/ability level the Bills currently have in players on their roster.
I'll go first.
True Statement: The Bills are a QB, LT, C, RT, TE, 2 WR's, a legitimate NT, a DE, and 2 LB's (one inside and one outside) from being an elite level football team. Now...let's have true statements about the positions of need
QB: Ryan Fitzpatrick has more guts than Edwards. Brian Brohm may be capable of starting a few games in Fitzpatrick's place for the Bills this year. Otherwise, both are career backups (nothing more than that..period)
WR: It was a huge mistake to sign Lee Evans to a long-term deal. He is fast and has good hands; otherwise, he has been a huge disappointment the last five years. Roscoe Parrish is fun to watch but will never be more than a #3. The other WR's are feel good stories, but there is less than a 10% chance that any of the receivers (including the beloved Steve Johnson) are going to be legitimate #1 or #2 starters in this league.
LT: It is nice that Bell is related to Karl Malone, and we all wish he had his dad's talent, but Bell is not Peters (so as much as it hurts) we won't catch lightning in a bottle twice and have a TE become converted to a solid LT. We have no viable LT or LT prospect on our roster. And, for those that say Wang is a legitimate LT, I reply, "how many LT's have been drafted in the NFL from China in the 5th round?" Be honest...Wang, Meredith, Bell, and the other guys are not real LT's.
C: Hangartner was a starter in Carolina (when the team was a little better). He really isn't a starter but the o-line is so bad that he occasionally looks serviceable. The truth is he is nothing more than a backup. It's like holding onto a girlfriend that is a "6" hoping she'll become a "7" but the truth is...she doesn't have it in her...and you know (deep down inside that you honestly haven't had anything better than a "6" and won't...so you are stuck with her.
RT: Cornell Green sucks...He's old and useless, but he probably is the Bills second or third best tackle on the team.
TE: The Bills haven't had a legitimate TE in about 10-12 years. Nelson is fast but he'll never be a good blocker (a desperate need with a terrible o-line), and Stupar and other TE's are just waiver-wire guys that good franchises didn't have room for.
NT: We love Kyle Williams because he is a hardworking, overachieving, white guy who is a blue collar player. He was picked in the latter rounds, and his motor is consistent. He's gritty. He's a solid rotational guy, but he isn't ever going to be a solid NT. He's much better as a DE in a 4-3.
DE: Edwards and Stroud are solid backups but they aren't particularly good at anything anymore (other than leadership or nice guy personalities)
LB's: Some people are still delusional thinking Kelsay is worthwhile. Note: If you think Kelsay is a good player (you should be banned from this board for the season). Again, we like him because he has "stuck with the team, is a captain, a nice guy, and is "gritty." Poz is okay but is nothing more than what he is...an injury prone reach LB that we all hoped was Shane Conlan 2.0. Davis was a nice pickup because we can't get anyone. The rest of the LB's really are nothing more than backups. Maybin is what he is...Yes...he is fast...but we hate to admit it inside, but he is....__________________ (something with the words bust...useless....one dimensional are appropriate)
So deep down....keep in mind that the Bills really are what you know they are rather than what you hope they are.... So, if that is true (and it is), please stop with the Brian Brohm or Ryan Fitzpatrick chants...And, yes...Chan Gailey is an upgrade over Jauron and Nix is an upgrade over (whoever that marketing guy pretending to know football guy is).
But again, the Bills are a girl rated as a "4". She's chunky, some stretch marks, some staining on her teeth, etc. but you've been with her for years and she occasionally shows flashes of excitement. The same is true for the Bills offense, defense, and for the franchise. While I commend everyone for their "faithfulness, fidelity, integrity, and loyalty" to your "4", let's talk about the Bills players as they really are.
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I know names like Locker, Luck, Mallett, and Ponder have been thrown out there knowing that, barring some miracle, Buffalo has a top 5 pick in next year's draft. And, yes, my pipe dream is the Bills trade out of the top 5, land Luck or Mallett and somehow get a 1st round LT that becomes a stud. Sorry for the digression. Looking at teams with quarterback position deficiences like the Bills and/or teams that will need a new starting QB soon (i.e. the Vikings with Favre's age and history), is there a starting quarterback worse than Trent Edwards?
Would you rather have Trent Edwards over any of the following players?
Jason Campbell-Raiders
Bruce Gradowski-Raiders
Jake Delhomme-Browns
Alex Smith-49ers
Brett Favre-Vikings (mainly cuz the guy is 40+ and Jackson and Rosenfels are the guys in line of succession)
Derek Anderson-Cardinals
Matt Hasselbeck (getting up in age and has had injury history recently)
Matt Moore (keep in mind that Jimmy Clausen is his current backup)
I would take any of these guys over Trent Edwards this year and next year if I had a choice between Edwards and any of these guys. The team most likely to be in the market for a starting QB would be the Vikings considering that Sage Rosenfels and Tavaris Jackson don't scream a successor at QB much like our Fitzpatrick/Brohm backup plan.
Is there anyone worse than Trent Edwards as a starting QB or a well-known backup in this league?
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I'd have to agree that getting in that first hit or taking that first hit is a good way getting into the game. I'll always enjoyed if a running play or passing play called me into action as a CB in the first few plays of the game. It builds some excitement and confidence in you, and for me, involvement early on got me into the game and took out those natural jitters most people have before a game.
I returned kicks, played CB & WR. I loved when we would receive to start the game, get hit on the very first play, it really got the blood flowing. You always hear players say they need that first hit.... its very very true.
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The future starting Tight End for the Bills is not on the roster. This is Gailey's year to truly see where the team's strengths and gaping holes are, and TE is one of the biggest. He needs a real blocker, with smarts, and some hands.
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I'm an optimist this year I've decided.
While I believe Trent Edwards has the capacity to match either mark, I don't believe his offensive line, the scheme, the lack of receiving talent around him, or his health will allow him to achieve both marks; therefore, this is a sucker bet.
Mark me down for 1,874 yards and 11 tds with Edwards starting or surviving 12 games this year. I'm throwing one game out for injury, two games for Fitzpatrick to have a shot at starting, and one game when the season is over for the Bills to find out what Brohm has before drafting a quarterback next year. And, Fred Jackson or Brian Moorman will be the third leading passer on the Bills this year!
Have been set at:
2000 passing yards
12 Td's
by far the two lowest numbers of any starting QB in the league. I'm guessing Vegas is betting on the fact that Edwards will not be healthy to start all 16 games. If Edwards manages to stay healthy this season (that's a big if) the overs are a virtual lock.
2000 yards/ 16 games = 125 passing yards/game
For anyone who's betting on Edwards this year you may want to take a look. If you think he can stay upright for the entire season it's a lock, but betting on that is risky.
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I admire your optimism but unfortunately can't completely agree.
I do like the interior offensive line's future. I do believe Levitre, Woods, and Urbik all have the potential to be above average or solid players on this team's offensive line. IThese guys are some great building blocks. Hangartner is a quality backup who currently has to start because of the line's current struggles.
While I'll give Jamon Meredith an outside shot of becoming an average RT on this team and in the league, the Bills do not have a starting tackle at either position on this current roster. Green won't be in Buffalo very long, and Bell, Wang, and Howard are all projects with ceilings, in all honesty, as career backups/journeyman. If we are asked to be honest and not just fans, this is likely the case.
Depending on the quality of tackles available in free agency and in next year's draft , the Bills could honestly use a quality veteran and two of their first four picks next year on tackles. If two of those three potential pickups become capable starters or more, then I think my the starting offensive lineman and line depth would lead to both realistic and hopeful optimism.
Wizard
I just have some random thoughts on the O-Line after the Bills picked up Urbik off waivers. This is how I see our line shaping up by season's end:
LT Bell – hasn't been bad during preseason but still has room to grow. He is a beast when out in the open on run blocking plays.
LG Levitre – Long time guard for the Bills to hold down the line
C Woods – Will move there eventually this year and Hangartner will be a solid back up.
RG Urbik – Now that the Bills have the top three OG prospects from the 2009 draft on there roster and all are still young they should let them grow and jell together.
RT Wang – Very athletic tackle and a definite upgrade from Green who is a career backup.
This has the potential to be a very impressive line I think as long as we can be patient with them and let them grow together. We also have some solid backups (and yes I said backups) who will push the starters everyday in practice in Meredith, Howard, Green, and Hangartner. I am beginning to really like the way it is shaping up. Your thoughts.
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I constantly admire optimism, but it would be almost impossible for the Bills to get a 2nd rounder for Lynch. It is not like the guy is high character and/or coming off an impressive all-pro type season. The Bills would jump at the chance to trade Lynch and a 6th or 7th next year for a 3rd if a team is really needing a running back.
I was one that really wanted to keep lynch, because of injuries and we are for sure going to run the ball a lot. But With Bell on the practice squad and him just being awesome during preseason, I really wouldn't mind trading lynch for a low 2nd rounder or a high 3rd rounder at this point. Though I wouldn't advocate it. I just wouldn't complain about it.
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Yes...I'm not a huge Fitzpatrick fan...but the guy has more experience and got the most crucial snaps in the backup position over Brohm.
Fitzpatrick sealed his roster spot tonight as well as David Nelson, Reggie Corner, and Ellis Lankster.
That leaves Brohm out of the equation.
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Is Jairus Byrd officially out all year?
My only changes to your 53 Man Roster
WR...I see the Bills keeping 6 WR's, but I think Roosevelt get a practice squad invite. I think Hardy is given this year to prove himself under Gailey.
TE...Boy this is a week position, but I see Stupar, Nelson, and Foschi. Schouman is hurt too often and is too light (220+) is too small for a TE in Gailey's system.
LB...I think they keep Mitchell for his general versatility and the fact that you can't have too many LB's in a 3-4. He takes the open roster spot by having only three tight ends.
DB...I see the Bills keeping Lankster. He has a nose for the ball and plays bigger than his size. Also, he would contribute on special teams.
The Bills would then have:
QB (3)
RB (5)
WR (6)
TE (3)
OL (9)
DL (7)
LB (8)
DB (9)
Special Teams (3)
53 Total:
Practice Squad Invites:
1. Chad Simpson (RB)
2. Naaman Roosevelt (WR)
3. Antonio Coleman (LB)
4. Danney Batten (LB...Injured Reserve?)/Marcus Easley (WR...Injured Reserve?)
5. Lonnie Harvey (DT)
6. Cary Harris (DB)
7....Some offensive lineman currently on roster or cut from other squad. If the Bills get a veteran player, then I think OL (Howard) takes this practice squad spot.
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-bills-schoumanhurt
hopefully not his right one again
You know, I hate seeing guys get hurt, but I'm not a Schouman supporter anymore. He was part of and play a huge role in the sickest college game in history (Boise State versus Oklahoma), but he is constantly injured, has been inconsistent, and he weighs like 220lbs for a TE.
I think he gets cut. We already have a light tight end in Nelson, and I think Stupar and Matthews beat him out for the two backup spots.
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his motion looked the same to me
Nope...and this isn't a Tebow discussion board!
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Yes...it is preseason...and yes....there are some guys out there still hoping to catch a ride on this sunken ship, but it is truly sad times when the Redskins dominate your team in every facet for 60 minutes and coast to a 25 point victory.
After Friday's beat down, Chan Gailey should start cheating (the Patriots do it, so why not us) and should deploy scouts with cash to let Locker, Luck, and every legitimate LT prospect in the college ranks know how desperate this team is for talent.
Time to cut or trade all the crummy vets for a bag of chips or a 7th round pick if possible(Chambers, Corner, Ellison, Edwards, Fitzpatrick, Kelsay etc.) and let all rookies and those still with developmental potential play every snap possible. When it is all said and done what is the difference between a 2-14 team and this team? Answer: 3-13.
Time to blow up this ship and rebuild. Stockpile as many draft picks as possible and get a real QB, LT, Pass rusher, and outside linebacker.
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As a Fan for the past 25-30 years, think back to the early 80's, late 80's, early 90's and so forth, did you ever think that teams like the bucs, and saints would win a superbowl before the Bills. I thought it was a pretty sad day when the Saints became superbowl champs before the Bills.
thoughts ?
Nope...My first impression of the Bucs was the Steve Young and orange creamsicle outfits they wore. However, I was happy to see the Bucs win. Their defense was perfectly built for about 3 years.
As for the Saints, I was rooting for them because of the underdog mentality and in support of the Hurricane Katrina areas needing love and support. The Saints picking up Brees changed that organization in a positive direction entirely. Now...if the Bills could get a QB...hope again.
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I know that many topics come up on this board about "let's go get player X" via free agency or because "player X" was cut, the Bills should sign him.
This is one of the few times where I think McCray fits the "Bill" for Buffalo's defense. He's 28, 6'6 and 260 lbs. He primarily is a rushing defensive end. Also, as several media outlets (including ESPN) have reported that he started all the Saints playoff games.
The Bills need a rushing defensive end to make the 3-4 work. I'm not counting on Kelsay or Schobel (to get out of his retirement talks), and Carrington is just a rookie.
A starter on a high quality team with playoff experience that happens to be a reasonably young DE with measurables that Gailey looks for...let's bring this guy in for a look.
And then there were 36.
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
The ones I would keep/resign are bolded. Every one else either needs to be cut or traded
2001: Moorman
2003: Lindell, Kelsay, McGee
2004: Wilson, Evans
2005: Parrish
2006: Jackson, Whitner, McCargo, Youboty, Williams, Ellison
2007: Scott, Corto, Huggins, Posluszny
2008: Stroud, Spencer Johnson, Stupar, McIntyre, McKelvin, Corner, Stevie Johnson, Bell
2009: Brohm, Watkins, Sanborn, Florence, Hangartner, Fitzpatrick, Maybin, Wood, Levitre, Byrd, Shawn Nelson
I would maybe keep Sanborn just because I don't know about the longsnapper market. I understand snapping is an important part of plays, but I just think having a longsnapping only guy is a wasted roster spot. If Evans can be traded for an early 4th (sorry, these Evans for a 2nd round pick posts arenot probable), I would do so; otherwise, he has one year left on his contract.
The other guys are either overpaid, underperforming, injury prone, or aren't even viable backups.