BuffaloBill
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But probably not in Buffalo.
Sad but true
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how about this:
could it be argued that kick/punt returners are bigger impact players for the offense than some of the guys on that 11 man list?
look at all of parrish's return yards. those arent just Special Team Stats. those are pure offensive yards that directly help the offense.
Then why can't Tasker get recognition as a special teamer (I know he was not the return guy)? I agree that you have to win the field position battle but a good punter will kick it away from him or good coverage makes for a fair catch. Probably three to five plays a game where he really makes or has potential to make a difference. McKelvin could make the same contribution though and we would free up a valuable roster spot if we get something worthwhile in exchange (notice I avoided return).
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Did you guys notice how the Chiefs feared kicking to the guy (just like so many other teams). That translates to better drive starts. He also is averaging 14.7 yards per return.
When he does get the ball in the passing game, he is fine.
It seems to me, this is a guy that we want on our team -- especially after he signed a cap friendly extension.
Just my two cents.
I agree the Chiefs were clearly scared and it resulted in good field position - a quality team would not do that.
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By the way...if you want to look at trading a WR this off season...see James Hardy. We have a certain 7th rounder who looks like he could be the steal of the draft and the future starter opposite Evans if he continues to develop. Word is the FO really likes him...so that would leave Hardy where? An expensive 3rd WR? What about Reed and Roscoe then? Someone has to be the odd man out...
Trade hardy on his potential...we could get a decent pick back for him...maybe a first day pick.
Not likely to get a day one pick .. kinda like buying a new car .. value drops as soon as you drive it off the lot. If he is not an impact plaer in Buffalo then not likely to be somewhere else just because the scenery changes.
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i wouldnt even say we disagree, lol
and im not looking to argue this until we have a "winner" like every discussion on this board turns into.
just giving another perspective.
i dont know that time will cause him to contribute more, and im not saying you wanted reed gone. just using him as a perfect, recent example of the same scenario we're discussing.
but, if we pick a 2nd round bust and 3 wrs get injured next year, im upping this thread
Time to go home and quit wasting my employer's bandwidth on another useless debate - I've enjoyed it and will check back later tonight after my wife and I are finished arguing about who has to clean the litter box tonight. At least that discussion has a meritorious outcome as the cats are "winners" in the process. -
Best case? Second Rounder? Yeah right...no way we get a second round pick for a player who is yet to prove he can play at this level as anything other than a punt returner. We didnt even get a 2nd round pick for Mcgahee, and Baltimore REALLY wanted him and he had proven he could be a significant starting RB in this league, just wore out his welcome in Buffalo.
I like Roscoe, but he has not proven to be able to step up and be consistent as a WR, earn more time, or stay healthy.
Unless he shows something during the rest of the year, I would say our ceiling on him is 4th round pick...maybe a third if he shows some consitent factor in the passing game over the remainder of our season.
Personally, I think it would be best to keep him as he is a special kick returner who has big play potential on offense...just not an every down kind of WR, well at least thats what he has shown so far.
As I have said... depends on what we can get for him. Agreed if it is only a fourth rounder keep him on our roster. A third you think about it depending on who you can draft and if it is a second rounder then it's a no-brainer.
Keep in mind we got a third and a fith for McGahee who also never really had a true impact season - I still think he got to rest on the hype coming out of college. I hate that he got hurt the way he did but good bye to him - too self absorbed and the Bills clearly got the better end of the deal.
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while they are all technically Wide Receivers, they all play different positions. Evans natural ability is speed and the burst to get by people for the long ball. he started out at a different level since he could be successful with something that didnt need to be coached or developed.
plus, certain people develop at different rates. it was still the beginning of this season that people wanted Reed gone.
obviously, if you are expecting a 2nd rounder for him, then you are expecting teams to see him as more than just a punt returner.
im all for improving the team, and agree that yes, right now he is basically a punt returner. Until we have a couple injuries at WR, then he is valuable veteran depth. something we are thin at at a lot of positions, no need to create another. of course, if johnson keeps developing and we get a real TE out of Fine... maybe we dont need to be so deep at WR.
Not sure where to go from here ... agree to disagree? Roscoe has never proven himself to be a WR in this league so yes a second rounder is very optimistic but perhaps somebody bites based on his threat to change a game every time he goes in to return a punt.
I really disgree that time will cause him to contribute more. He has four years in the league, an NFL lifetime.
Your comparison to jettisoning Reed does not have a place in what i am trying to argue. One I never supported that thought as Reed is a very, very valuable role player. He blocks like a pit bull and in spite of having the drops a few years ago he catches anything thrown at him now. Plus as I said earlier Trent edwards reaaly looks for him.
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1) Green Bay Packers, Inc. Green Bay Packers - 1923 - Present
2) Ralph Wilson - Buffalo Bills - 1960 - Present
3) Bud Adams - Houston Oilers / Tenessee Titans - 1960 - Present
We take Ralph for granted in Buffalo, but with all the franchise moves and new owernship groups. and the passing away of some long time owners recently, Wilson has now moved up to number two in longest owership of an NFL franchise in one city. Bud Adams has owned his franchise just as long, but moving Houston to Nashville knocks him out of his tie wilh Wilson. Of course Al Davis has been around Oakland since 1960, but he was not their original owner (Wayne Valley was), plus he moved the franchise to L.A. & back after he became majority owner anyway.
So it's the publically owned Packers, and Ralph. Pretty amazing when you think about it. Long live Ralph Wilson.
I think Ralph has been good to WNY .... he could have run long ago. I give him alot of credit for not doing it.
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no, he hasnt had years, not really. nothing and no one on this offense has had years to develop given the inconsistency of coaches and players and their performances. a large majority of Bills fans have been calling for the head of Josh Reed for years, and now look... he's the cornerstone of this budding offense.
as far as im concerned, this is the real first year for this offense. maybe year and a half if you want to count part of last season.
Then why is Evans playing at a higher level as is Reed (when healthy) Parrish is now a veteran not a rookie. My point is that he has talent and the Bills can get something in return for it (no pun intended). Keeping a guy on the roster simply to return punts takes up a very valuable roster spot.
Also, to the other comments - agreed we should not give him away - the trade has to offer real value but like I said .. a second rounder ... a good mix of stuff moving us up (meaningfully) in the first round and maybe getting another pick to go with it .. who would pass it up?
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Forget the charity stuff. I,d like less INTs.
Agreed .. if he brings Buffalo the Lombardi then he has contributed more to the city and fans than any amount of charity work. I applaud JP for what he tried to do for the city and he meant well but his paycheck comes from playing well not being the chamber of commerce.
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Parrish is still developing as a WR and we honestly have no depth of at WR especially in the slot.
He has had years. I also get the idea that Trent Edwards either can't find him or will not throw to him. Trent seems to really like Evans and Reed.
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While there are many resons to hate Bellichick one thing he said years ago that did impress me (when referring to the Bledsoe trade to Buffalo) was that you have to decide who you can win without, even if they are good players. I'm not sure what we could get in trade for roscoe but he is not an NFL threat at wide-receiver and it may be too much of a luxury to carry him as a punt return specialist only. Let McKelvin handle all returns - even if it means dropping him to nickle corner on the depth chart to level out his playing time.
Let's argue that best case you get a second rounder for Roscoe. You can get a quality o-line or d-line player in return. If you can't get at least a third rounder then it is probably not worth the trade. Maybe there is a package deal in there somewhere such that we get extra picks and a move up in the draft. Again, may depend upon who is on the board but an impact pass rusher or solid TE helps the Bills more than Roscoe does.
Flame away
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May I add one more negative? ... just kidding ... lol
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GM employees have a Federally insured pension so you will not change that.
I think the people that have already retired need to be potected or you will send most of these people into bankruptcy and forclosure and the numbers are too high.
Most of the above are in their 60's and 70's and 80's and do not have the big pensions you read about Some get less then $1200 per month and they pay into their health care.
You can't just send these people to the streets.
Do not be overly confident in a federally insured pension ... fact of the matter is that PBGC could easily be overwhelmed and negotiations could end up leaving pensioners getting dimes, nickles, pennies on the dollar. I do not say this to be spiteful or hurtful just factual. The situation is a mess. I feel for the people who worked for years believing they were going to receive a benefit at the end. However, this is not unlike the millions who have invested money into a 401(k) believing that they were doing the correct thing only to watch much of it evaporate this past year. Also not unlike the social security system which is not as stable as many would like. At some point the government can't keep being the money bucket of last resort. Every day that goes by during this current mess makes me appreciate my grandparents generation that much more (depression era). They worked hard, they tried to avoid debt (except maybe for a resonable mortgage) they took care of their (extended) families and they paid their taxes.
Now this has less to do with the Bills - should we ask the gov't for a new stadium now?
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I lived in W.N.Y. [actually Orchard Park] all thru the 80s and most of the 70s and it seems to me the economy was ALWAYS bad. I wonder if that confiscatory tax system is more to blame then the unions. I read in the online news a few weeks ago about a retiring 59 year old cop who was going to get a 100000k+ pension-for life- with COLA no doubt-where is that money going to come from? Why you and the place you work.
While I have no data to respond to the cop and his pension, it is a combination of issues that has beaten down the WNY area:
Perhaps most painful is brain drain .... WNY has alot of very good colleges but how many grads stay in the region?
Taxes do not favor investment
For too long there has been an overreliance on heavy industry and a failure to shift to the "new" economy
The climate - WNY has never found a meaningful way to celebrate the winter and use it for recreation
Yes - unions - argue what you want about pay and contracts - fact of the matter is that they scare off investment. As an Executive I can tell you that no industry possibly impacted by the presence of a union is going to easily look to invest in WNY. I get it that companies (management) get the unions they deserve but unions also tend to be lost in the freakin stone ages and do not help their own cause by being short sighted
Failure to grow from within - for at least a decade the "saviors" of the economy were thought to be large employers that would be "attracted in" - WNY needs to foster growth from within. Perhaps there is a bit of luck involved but look at Seattle - a city that - like Buffalo - was a blue collar industrial town is transformed into a high tech beacon
Not sure what any of this has to do with the Bills but what the heck.
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Ok, but after Vick's jail time, public humiliation, loss of his best means of earning a living for several years, his attempts at restitution to troubled dogs after his conviction, and almost incomprehensible monetary losses, could you ever see the way to saying that he's paid his debt to society for his wrongdoings?
Without getting religious on the board ... yes he can and should have opportunity for forgiveness. No...he has no right returning to the public stage and getting wealthy while he does it. For once, we need to think about what it says to kids if we let athletes that make serious misjudgements step back into the spotlight. Athletic ability does not equal license for poor behavior. Let him make his living honestly like the rest of america but he is not entitled to return to the NFL. I would not want him in Buffalo.
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We all understand the point of your post, but it is misplaced. This thread is about positive, not intended to be highjacked by the negative. Somewhere in the range of 95% of the threads on this board right now are negative, so if you want to post negatively, do it in one of the negative threads and don't highjack one of the extremely rare positive ones.`
I'll take my rant to another thread.
It is positive that the Bills are more likely than not going to have a winning season. A step forward even if they do miss the playoffs.
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Totally nailed it right there. A generation ago, the US economy shifted from manufacturing to service. The "Rust Belt," cities in the Midwest/Eastern Bloc, near the Great Lakes (Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Erie, Detroit, Milwaukee, et all) still have yet to truly recover or redefine themselves from that image. As much as I love our history, and I cite my Rust Belt roots with pride, our attitude about how we do business in Western New York HAS to change for us to have any growth in the future. I was raised in the 'burbs, I admit. Kenmore is first ring though, the city is at least bordering the village. Sprawl has KILLED this region. Either from fear of crime, or simply the city schools are just too bad to raise a family in, suburban sprawl and the systemic shift of resources really hurt us. While I've read that the housing market in Erie County, and the city municipality is on an uptick from the rest of the industry, its still VERY hard to do business here. The highest property taxes and sales tax in the country? Erie County. How do businesses survive when the county that "supports" them bleeds them to death? And of course, no surprise, but the teachers unions are all up in Collins's grill because he wants to make it easier for bad teachers to lose their jobs without all the bull sh-- and red tape. You wonder why the city schools suffer? Cause nothing ever changes, nobody wants to be held accountable.
The fastest rising industry in Buffalo, and the country as it stands? Debt collection. Wow. Seriously? Is our entire economic system just made of charging people obscene interest, and then renegotiating the terms when they can't pay it?
Thx
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I don't think you'd make it very long as a Lions fan.
I've been a Bills fan for 34 years. I would agree that there are fans who have it worse. Detroit for sure maybe Cleveland is next in line - though they have had some good teams.
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This is why Marshawn's "Beast Mode" worries me. I admire his ability but wonder if he will make himself prone to injury over the longer term. Helpful that he and Freddy J can alternate. I am beginning to believe in the RB Tandem concept.
Thurman's career is all the more impressive when you think about the durability and pounding he endured. In reality if you add up all of his Playoff and SB games he actually played another NFL season beyond what his record suggests.
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The post is Fecious- in regards to all the complaints about the negative feedback of the team, The idea was to see how many more positives we could put on the KC game. We are drowning in negatives about this team what we can build on that was positive?
Understood but the point of the post was to express frustration over the fact that the team has been in the same exact rut for a decade. Usually I am a "glass is half full" person but I really feel let down by this team and the organization. Perhaps because this year started off with so much promise.
I forgot to add:
It is negative that the Bills continue to find new ways to embarrass themselves, their fans and the WNY region each time they get on national TV.
I really hope the Bills turn it around. I hope for the team, the fans and the region. My hat is off to your optimism and I hope I will return to the same.
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maybe if people stopped believing all the blind hype that the imports are better than the domestics and started buying our own products they wouldn't be in as much trouble as they are. Toyota = crap.
While the statistics clearly show that american assembled autos have caught up with imports the fact of the matter is that the seeds for this problem were planted 40 years ago when the management and employees of the big three did not give a crap about the quality of their autos. They dug themselves in a hole and have been trying to get out of it ever since. WNY has paid dearly for this.
If WNY hopes to remain or regain status as a thriving community / region, then the economy has to be diversified and jobs need to be developed from within. I do not blame only the heavy industry that remains or that has left the region. The govt bodies, the community and other institutions need to focus on tax structures that are oppressive, a way to make the winter a positive rather than a negative (at least stress the beauty of the region at other times of the year), and, yes shed itself of that long held image of a "blue collar town." Fact of the matter is that high paying jobs that will stick are not blue collar. They are in the sciences, engineering, finance, high tech, healthcare and entreprenurialism. What underpins all of these is a sound education system and a workforce that is creative and thinks.
I and my wife would love to return to to WNY and root for the Bills but the economy and taxes suck.
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It was a positive sign that our QB finally threw more than 1 TD this season
It was positive that out QB knew when to take it into the endzone himself TWICE.
It was positive that our QB looked confident again.
It was positive The Leodis had a Breakout game to silence the critics for at leat one week.
It was posotive that the Defense finally had a ton of turnovers 5!
It was positive that our Offense put up over 400 yds and 5 TDS
It was postive that our OC finally went up to the sky so he can see what the heck is going on and how to call against it.
It was positive we put up the most points ever at Arrow head.
It was positive we didnt let a 1-9 team beat us.
Overall we we came away with some positives from that game to take into the SF game.
It is negative that the defense could not stop the run when KC had the chance to leave the run game in the gameplan
It is negative that the Bills waited five games to get their heads out of their azzes and decided winning was important
It is negative that this team has likely played itself out of the playoffs. Yes, I know they are not eliminated but they are in a deep hole with little to no margin for error and they will have to get help. Lose a division game and they are effectively eliminated.
It is negative that TE has a long way to go to prove that he can be consistent QB and he can help win against strong opponents
It is a negative that the Bills have not figured out how to beat the 3-4 defense - the one employed by everybody else in the division.
It is negative that the Bills have not shown strength within the division for over a decade
It is negative that the Bills while maybe improved this year still lag behind the Cheatriots and the Jests and maybe Miami
It is negative that after Josh Reed there is no depth and worse, liability at WR
It is negative that while Jauron and staff likely stay we have another season with a question mark and possible rebuilding if another dramatically different coaching staff is brought in
It is negative that the millions spent on DE's do not appear to be paying off.
It is negative that there are questions hanging over whether the club requires a true GM
It is negative that the Bills are largely irrelevant in the NFL landscape and are not taken seriously by anyone
It is negative that Jason Peters is looking for a monster contract and has struggled at times this year
It is negative that while our #1 pick this year has had one good game he is not proven and maybe still isn't trusted by the coaching staff
It is negative that while better than what we had last year, Stroud does not dominate on the D-line he is now a very good but not great player
It is negative that with a young QB we do not have a proven TE. I would take consistency much less a game changer.
It is a negative that we have been in this same exact mode for a decade
Need I go on??
Sorry to rain on the parade but the bottom line is that there is a long way to go.
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berndogg and myself just went over this.. yes, they were driving at the end of the game. that doesn't change the fact that lindell's kick would have given us the lead.
History ... what does it matter now? Good teams find ways to win games even if the w's are ugly. The current version of the Bills ...actually for the last decade or so .. has not had the will or the ability to do this. We seem to win against the teams we probably should win against but still lose some of these. Almost never do we beat the teams that are (real or perceived) to be better than us.
Trade Roscoe Parrish during the offseason??
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
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Where do his stats prove out that he is a valuable slot receiver? Why do people buy into this concept. This year he has 18 catches for a whopping total of 185 yards. Come on folks this is not an impact receiver nor a threat when on the field with the offense.