BuffaloBill
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Look at his stats and please tell me why does everybody say this guy is a receiving threat?
Season Team Receiving Rushing Fumbles
G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2008 Buffalo Bills 9 1 18 185 10.3 22 1 -- -- -- -- -- 1 1
2007 Buffalo Bills 16 3 35 352 10.1 47T 1 3 19 6.3 24T 1 1 0
2006 Buffalo Bills 16 1 23 320 13.9 51T 2 2 18 9.0 11 0 2 1
2005 Buffalo Bills 10 1 15 148 9.9 28 1 2 -2 -1.0 4 0 2 1
TOTAL 91 1,005 11.0 51 5 7 35 5.0 24 1 6 3
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Would you trade away Josh reed at this point? No way.
Look how long it took for him to develop into a really good possession type receiver. Anyone remember all those dropped balls ?
Although Roscoe is still developing he doesn't miss many balls his way.Part of the problem is how the Bills utilize him or should I say under utilize him ?
Not for nothing but the combination of Lee Evans on one side and Roscoe on the other side both running fly patterns should scare the hell out of opponents and open up the middle. Then with Josh Reed and the tight ends in the Middle both should be open and man this offense should be so explosive!
Just hit a few of those deep balls or middle balls and it drops the backers and safeties deeper in coverage and opens up the running game. That's when play action really starts clicking.
Like I said the Bills offense could be so much more explosive. I suppose it might take Drew Brees throwing and Sean Payton calling plays to make it happen though
I keep returning to the facts:
Parrish is in his fourth year - long enough to have developed into a threat if he is going to be one
We've heard since training camp this year that the offense was going to be explosive - numbers show otherwise
Trent Edwards can't find or does not value Parrish as a receiver. he gets a very small number of throws each week
While he is elusive on punt returns he rarely makes the first guy miss when thrown the ball. he should get YAC but does not
He has 16 catches this year for 185 yards and this will likely be his best year as a receiver - sorry but for whatever set of reasons have caused it - these numbers do not show that he is or can be an effective receiver with this club.
Why does everyone buy into the idea that he is such a receiving threat?
Tell me one time where he broke a game open as a receiver in four years? the guy is amazing as a punt returner but has no value to this team otherwise.
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Stevie Johnson will hopefully become a very good slot receiver. I think he has way more upside than Roscoe as a receiver. I would definitely trade Roscoe for a third round pick. He is not a consistent factor in the offense. McKelvin and Fred Jackson are both good returners. We will not get more than a 3rd for Roscoe because he is not a major contributor on offense because he is too small and is frequently injured.
This year (offseason)is probably the best chance to get it done. Cap friendly deal already in place. Likely to lead the league in punt returns and has enough speed to still be perceived as a recieing threat. However, as I have said in other posts his threat as a receiver is far too hyped. His stats as a receiver barely resister. He averages a little better than 1 catch per game (slightly better because of games missed so in reality 1.5 to 2 catches per game). He may see 1 to 5 punts per game if the opposition kicks to him so we have a roster spot dedicated to a guy that may touch the ball 2 - 6 times per game at best. I believe his perceived value is far higher than his real value and that is why I favor a trade given fair value in exchange.
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It will be a bit better than the preseason game. No matter where you play a preseason game, nobody really cares that much.
This was the ultimate load of crap. High priced perseason tickets. I felt bad for the people that actually paid for them. What a rip off.
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Roscoe isn't going to be cut any time soon.
Agreed ... no reason to cut him.
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Anyone giving up on Hardy already is silly. WR's rarely succeed until their THIRD season - getting mad at your 2nd rounder because he's struggling 2/3 of the way through year 1... C'mon!
Moulds was thought to be a potential bust until his third season, remember?
I think the argument for trading Roscoe is sound - it's all dependent on what they could get.
If they can get something that moves them up in round 1 so they're drafting a stud DE like FSU's Everette Brown - DO IT!!
I could swear we got two third's over two years for McGahee - didn't one of them trade us up to get Poz? Or was it Baltimore's they used to get Trent? Either way - was that bad?
Your recollection is correct - buffalo got a 3 and a 7 in 2007 and a 3 in 2008. They used the picks this way: 3 in 2007 - Trent Edwards 7 in 2007 C.J. AhYou (bust) the 3 in 2008 as a part of the Marcus Stroud trade (interestingly the pick ended up back with the ravens through Jville and they picked Tavares Gooden
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Haloti Ngata or Donte Whitner.....hmmmm.....
Give it up - it is history ... now we must play with the cards we dealt to ourselves ....
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As fragile as he may be, the man is a game changer and a threat to go all the way every time he touches the ball. No way could we get enough value for him in a trade for what he is worth to the Bills. Let's keep our good players. I'm tired of sending them to the NFC. He doesn't carry a ridiculous salary.
The point is that we would have to get value for the trade .... also, is he really a valuable piece of the roster when we have other returners that can threaten? I'm not looking to give him away. There are just so many needs on this team - DE, DT, TE, C, wide receiver depth (in that order) that if we could get a #2 like Miami did for Welker I would take it in a heartbeat.
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I feel your pain. When we went to see the Bills vs. the Saints in San Antonio a few years back, we had the hotel decorated in Bills stuff, signs and flags including a brand new $200 banner that Lori (from TBD) had just bought. Someone went through the hotel on Saturday night and took them all.
Than to make it worse....we lost the game...
I was at that game
I did not take the flag though. -
you do realize that you're wrong don't you?
toyota only has 5 plants in the U.S. the majority of toyota vehicles are NOT made in the U.S.
toyota has the best spin doctors around, paying off magazines, lobbying in washington and brain washing the public. they are subsidized by the Japanese government which pays for most of their r&d. get a clue genius.
The statement would have been correct if it was said that the majority of Toyota cars sold in the US are assmebled in the U.S. with a mix of domestic and foreign parts.
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Every single year at this time, we hear the same stuff. All about how many teams are serious contenders and how 10-6 probably won't be good enough. The assumption is that all of these teams will make the perfect sprint to the finish line. It just doesn't happen that way. In the end, 10-6 almost always gets you a spot.
Look at Cleveland last year
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This is slightly off your topic, but I think if we trade anyone it's Reed. Assuming improvement in our rookies, he is the one who has value and we can do without. I know he seems to be a key part of the offense this year, but I think Johnson has proven he can step into the "security blanket" role, and hopefully Hardy will gain more confidence in the offseason. If not Parrish can supplant him as the number 3.
Parrish reminds me of Dante Hall, another guy who should have been a lot better with the offense but never seemed to get it done. If we do want to trade him, I vote they talk to SF, Martz like those small, quick wr's.
Reed is probably too long in the tooth but interesting point. I still think Trent likes him too much for the team to give him up. Part of my thought behind the Roscoe trade is that he and Trent Edwards do not seem to be on the same page. The stats suggest strongly that either by design or choice the offensive plan does not provide him many throws.
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What about all the Americans who work for Honda, Toyota, Mercedes...etc?
Truth of the matter is that there is so much parts sharing in the industry there is hardly a "American" car anymore. I worked 7 years for a Toyota and Honda supplier. I can tell you for a fact that Toyota places a premium on excellence in manufacturing and materials. They strive to wring every manufacuring inefficiency out of the system and they use the gain to better their parts.
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Everyone agrees the CEO is overpaid and Congress is going to certainly make that a condition of any bailout. The problem is that if you cut his salary by $20MM a year, that's enough money to run GM for about one hour. The CEO's pay is a drop in the bucket compared to the excessive wage/benefit/post retirement costs of the hundreds of thousands of people in the unions.
And spare us the "living wage" rhetoric. Auto workers at the non-union Honda plant certainly seem to be making a "living wage".
You can't fix the Big 3 without overhauling the entire thing; distribution channels, operational redundancies, executive structure and pay, AND the unions. Sorry guys, it's not the 19th century anymore so the old arguments don't fly. And to the original point in the thread -- Buffalo is dying because it hasn't successfully evolved to a post-industrial economy.
Go back and read the posts by BuffaloBill and Peevo
Amen ...well said
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Am I missing something?..Isnt Roscoe a FA in 2009?
QB Gibran Hamdan UFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
QB J.P. Losman UFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
RB Fred Jackson RFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
WR Justin Jenkins RFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
WR Roscoe Parrish UFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
TE Kevin Everett UFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
OG Kirk Chambers UFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
C Melvin Fowler UFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
OL Duke Preston UFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
DL Copeland Bryan RFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
DL Ryan Neill ERFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
LB Angelo Crowell UFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
LB John DiGiorgio RFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
LB Keith Ellison RFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
LB Kevin Harrison RFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
CB Jabari Greer UFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
FS George Wilson UFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
He signed an extension last year
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Jauron would need a lot of meds to get anywhere near Singletary's intensity.
I've injured myself falling out of the chair from laughing at that comment.
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On one hand you have to admire the passion (usually when I drop my pants too...lol) but on the other does he really think that would motivate his team? I lean towards the latter but I really respect his fire. I wish you could pass some of it on to Jauron.
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What about Takeo's return? I'll cheer him!
Yes ... he was a class act .. I've always hated the fact that he had to give up his prime years playing for a crappy Bills team.
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Pete Metzelaars: 4 catches, 113 yards, 2 tds.
when's the last time we had a 100 yard receiving day from a TE? :cries:
Tony G broke 100 this past Sunday ... oh wait that was for the opposing team ....
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another point, welker wasnt as well regarded at the time of his trade and miami got a 2nd for him.
again, anything is possible if the right team comes around at the right time.
Exactly the point I have been trying to get to.
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Norwood on list....
I have always felt bad for the guy but how different would it have been if that kick had not been wide right?
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Agree he'd be a very valuable player on other teams. I think Roscoe is the most underutilized player on the Bills and IMO it's ridiculous that after almost 3 seasons this staff hasn't figured out how use his talent as a receiver. Welker has similar skills and size and he's a staple in the Pats offense. Roscoe if he gets the ball in just a bit of space or on the move makes people miss. He makes plays when he's given the ball. Imagine a defense that had to prepare to play against Lee Evans, a more experienced Hardy and Roscoe as a 3rd guy. That would create some tough matchups for the opposition. Hardy is still learning. Shame on this coaching staff if in '09 (if they're still around) they can't make something special out of the combination of these 3 players.
Whatever the combination of factors is Parrish is no Welker Welker also has about 20 pounds on Parrish. Maybe not important because both are small by NFL standards but Parrish does seem to get knocked down on initial contact when he does catch a pass. His threat in retuns is his ability to make the first and often the second guy miss.
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To those wanting to trade roscoe, please explain to me the difference between a solid WR like Josh Reed, who will get you 4-5 catches and 50 yards every game, and Roscoe, who will get you 3-4 punt returns for a minimum of 50 yards per game. To me, they are just as valuable. Also Roscoe still has value as a WR as he's come up with quite a few decent catches in his tenure here. Sure he's not an every down player, but he has value as a weapon. A team like the pats* would turn roscoe into a good one.
Josh Reed contributes on every play in the offense. He is highly regarded for his blocking skills on a run plays and is taken seriously as a receiving threat. He can also get YAC something that Roscoe is supposed to do but doesn't.
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I agree that trading Roscoe is worth a good look. And I do actually think they could get a second round pick for him from the right team. He is arguably the top PR in the AFC and makes big plays on special teams and occasionally at WR, and if some team thinks they can make him into a starting wide receiver they'd pay the price for him. Personally, I don't think he can take the pounding stay healthy enough to be a highly productive #2 or slot receiver. If they keep Greer(and they should because they are flush with cap space) they would have depth at corner which might allow them to use McKelvin there, making Roscoe a bit more expendable.
As for Hardy, people shouldn't be so down on him. Despite his great production, he was a very raw receiver at Indiana. All he had to do to succeed in the Big Ten was out jump the cornerback, and if you saw him play, that's really all he did. He has the size and athleticism to be a very good NFL receiver, but he's not so good that he can just post-up NFL corners. He now has to learn things about being a WR that a less imposing college player like Steve Johnson had to learn just to make it at that level.
Thank you for some support
Was Singletary wrong for dropping his drawers?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I went to public school and we had boxing too. Problem was that it was held at the empty lot down from the school and nobody wore gloves