Mile High Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 Thanks for the tip. Good eye. Mike 115602[/snapback] You shouldn't be so nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 Thanks for the tip. Good eye. Mike 115602[/snapback] You naughty boy ... hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyemike Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 You shouldn't be so nice. 115603[/snapback] Gotta kill guests with kindness here. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyemike Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 You naughty boy ... hehehe 115612[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 The Bills would/will stay in Buffalo because of its history and fan support etc... That being said there are maybe two people who could afford the Bills--Golisano if he sells the Sabres and J Jacobs if he sells the Bruins. Jacobs is a very good guy but in Boston they cannot stand his frugality. Danny Wegman does not have 600 million dollars to buy a franchise! Nobody in WNY does now. Golisano will not sell Paychex to buy the Bills it just won't happen! He spent about 60-70 million for the Sabres after a lengthy negotiation. Now multiply that by 10!! He is not giving up his business to buy a football team. Maybe he sells the Sabres, takes the 70 million in cash as a down payment and finances the rest--not a great option. The Bills would likely be bought by someone outside the area who wants a football team or J Jacobs. He could sell the Bruins (if the NHL ever plays again) for a hefty sum and come up with backing for the other 400-500 million. My bet is on someone outside the area buying the team and keeping them in Buffalo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 The Bills would/will stay in Buffalo because of its history and fan support etc... That being said there are maybe two people who could afford the Bills--Golisano if he sells the Sabres and J Jacobs if he sells the Bruins. Jacobs is a very good guy but in Boston they cannot stand his frugality. Danny Wegman does not have 600 million dollars to buy a franchise! Nobody in WNY does now. Golisano will not sell Paychex to buy the Bills it just won't happen! He spent about 60-70 million for the Sabres after a lengthy negotiation. Now multiply that by 10!! He is not giving up his business to buy a football team. Maybe he sells the Sabres, takes the 70 million in cash as a down payment and finances the rest--not a great option. The Bills would likely be bought by someone outside the area who wants a football team or J Jacobs. He could sell the Bruins (if the NHL ever plays again) for a hefty sum and come up with backing for the other 400-500 million. My bet is on someone outside the area buying the team and keeping them in Buffalo! Dan Snyder bought the Redskins for $800M, in conjunction with several partners ranging from publishing execs to his family who owned stock in his company. It's not a matter of plunking down $637M in one lump sum, all paid by Golisano or Jacobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 Face it, guys, the Bills are definitely leaving Buffalo. There's no use complaining about it because I honestly think they've already left. After all, they do have a game at New England tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 Couldn't there be multiple primary owners in the mix? Golisano and his people take 33%, Rich and his people take 33%, Jacobs and his people take 33% I'll take the last 1% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 Couldn't there be multiple primary owners in the mix? Golisano and his people take 33%, Rich and his people take 33%, Jacobs and his people take 33% I'll take the last 1% 115660[/snapback] Yep. Except for that last part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 Yep. Except for that last part. 115663[/snapback] No, I already informed those guys I want that extra 1%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 No, I already informed those guys I want that extra 1%. 115666[/snapback] I had first dibs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 No, I already informed those guys I want that extra 1%. 115666[/snapback] All yours, upon the receipt of $6 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 shut the f*** up rudy, it gets really friggin old! :I starred in Brokeback Mountain: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Well said. I thought that Ralph was willing the team to his daughter anyway? Anyone else ever hear that? 115587[/snapback] Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Several factors make the Bills future situation tricky, the largest one being Ralph's age and the impending estate tax when he passes away. The government applies a 50% estate tax upon death on any assets exceeding 1.5 million. If the franchise is valued at 637 million then Ralph would owe 317 million dollars to uncle Sam on just the Bills franchise. That figure does not even include Ralph's other assets which I'm sure are pretty substantial. Now I'm sure Ralph took a lot of this hit into account with his attorney and planed accordingly. Loop holes can be found to protect assets from the government, I'm also pretty confident he has a substantial amount of insurance to help off set the estate tax. Regardless of the how well Ralph did his estate planing the sheer magnitude of the estate tax he will face leads me to believe his daughter will be forced to sell the team. What we have going for us is a profitable franchise and a good fan base, and if his daughter can find a buyer who agrees to keep the team in Buffalo we will be fine. I'm sure his daughter will try and honor Ralph's legacy by searching for a buyer who would make this arrangement. The problem arises if she can't find a buyer that agrees to keep the team in Buffalo. Remember she will be forced to sell the team to pay the estate tax, if she can only find a buyer that wishes to relocate she will be forced to make that deal. It's really not a matter of her intentions, it's a matter of the buyers intentions. The future basically comes down to one simple factor, the person that buys the team when Ralph passes away must want to keep the team in Buffalo. As a side note I am not an attorney and don't know the specifics of Ralph's estate planing, however I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porgyman Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Just to be clear, selling tickets is only one reason a team stays in a city. The other reasons are market size (i.e advertising money) and corporate sponsorship. Buffalo is a bottom feeder in both categories. Every city sells tickets when a team wins. There's a lot of denial on this board, and that's okay if it makes people feel better, but the honest truth is there is only one reason the Bills are in Buffalo. That reason is Ralph Wilson. Sadly the Bills will be gone from Buffalo within 5 years after his death unless a WNY buyer steps forward. List all the justifictions you want, but there are numerous communities better suited than Buffalo to support a NFL franchise (for weather, population and financial reasons). Whoever buys the Bills will move the team to their pet location. Just the way it is. 115347[/snapback] I'll agree that I'm in denial...While a move of the franchise is definitely a possibility, how many cities are left that can support an NFL franchise? All the major market cities are taken except for LA. If LA doesn't get an expansion team (expansion teams pay huge franchise fees to NFL owners), then Buffalo is a possiblity for relocation to LA, but are Arizona, San Diego, New Orleans, and Indy less of a possibility that Buffalo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fla Bills Fan Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Several factors make the Bills future situation tricky, the largest one being Ralph's age and the impending estate tax when he passes away. The government applies a 50% estate tax upon death on any assets exceeding 1.5 million. If the franchise is valued at 637 million then Ralph would owe 317 million dollars to uncle Sam on just the Bills franchise. That figure does not even include Ralph's other assets which I'm sure are pretty substantial. Now I'm sure Ralph took a lot of this hit into account with his attorney and planed accordingly. Loop holes can be found to protect assets from the government, I'm also pretty confident he has a substantial amount of insurance to help off set the estate tax. Regardless of the how well Ralph did his estate planing the sheer magnitude of the estate tax he will face leads me to believe his daughter will be forced to sell the team. What we have going for us is a profitable franchise and a good fan base, and if his daughter can find a buyer who agrees to keep the team in Buffalo we will be fine. I'm sure his daughter will try and honor Ralph's legacy by searching for a buyer who would make this arrangement. The problem arises if she can't find a buyer that agrees to keep the team in Buffalo. Remember she will be forced to sell the team to pay the estate tax, if she can only find a buyer that wishes to relocate she will be forced to make that deal. It's really not a matter of her intentions, it's a matter of the buyers intentions. The future basically comes down to one simple factor, the person that buys the team when Ralph passes away must want to keep the team in Buffalo. As a side note I am not an attorney and don't know the specifics of Ralph's estate planing, however I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. 115820[/snapback] I'm not an attorney either but I think the tax law is about to change -hope Ralph stays alive long enough. LONG LIVE RALPH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Several factors make the Bills future situation tricky... Like I said, there are several suitors for the Bills who have the resources, desire, and ties to WNY to keep the Bills in Buffalo. And I agree that Ralph probably told his daughters that he wants the team to remain in Buffalo. I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that he has instructed his daughters to provide financial assistance/partial ownership to the new owner to ensure a successful bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Like I said, there are several suitors for the Bills who have the resources, desire, and ties to WNY to keep the Bills in Buffalo. And I agree that Ralph probably told his daughters that he wants the team to remain in Buffalo. I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that he has instructed his daughters to provide financial assistance/partial ownership to the new owner to ensure a successful bid. 115974[/snapback] Unless the estate tax laws change, I doubt Wilson's daughters will care one bit who buys the Bills. They'll want the IRS off their backs as quickly as possible. If your WNY White Knight comes up with as much cash as a buyer from one of the growing Sunbelt communities, then Buffalo has a chance to keep the Bills. If that doesn't happen, they're gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Like I said before my guess is someone from outside the area comes in and buys the team but keeps them in Buffalo. Yes Jacobs, Golisano and Rich could all pony up the 700 million together but I think that is very unlikely because they don't have that much in expendable" assets that can be liquidated. Some multi-billionaire from outside the area may buy the team, but keep it in B'lo. Why move another team to LA? They NEVER support the damn team. How many failed franchises have they had? Two? Three? Also, in regards to estate tax laws. If Ralph gives everything to his wife my understanding is that the assets are not subject to the 55% estate tax. But if they go to his estate they are subject to that ridiculous tax minus the first 1.5 million that is exempt. So the family much like the Robbie family of Miami would have to sell the franchise to pay the IRS. However, no matter what your political views, with a Republican controlled Congress they may be repealing the estate tax altogher and it would be a moot point. Keep going Ralph. He looks in great shape for an octogenarian! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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