SouthernMan Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Sorry to belabor the Jason Peters topic, but the recent statements regarding the Eagle's offensive line cram course got me thinking again about his actual ability as compared to his perceived prowess on the field. If Jason Peters is so highly regarded as a pro-bowl level offensive tackle, why didn't one of the teams that drafted an OT in the first 8 picks of the 2009 draft, offer up that pick for Peters? Everyone knows that there is no "sure thing" in the NFL draft. Peters was already a proven commodity. Less risk, right?Peters is NFL-ready. The drafted OTs will likely have a learning curve as they become acclimated to the ways of the NFL. Assuming they have the ability and drive, it may take the rookies a year or two (at least) to reach Peter's supposed pro-bowl level of playing. The teams that drafted the high first round OTs will early on be paying huge bucks for the player's potential rather than for on field performance. The player will make rookie mistakes at the expense of the team owner's bank account. With Peters, it's pretty much plug & play - immediate return on the dollar - right? It's not as if Peters has his best days behind him. He's still young, in his prime, and should have several more years of productivity to offer. So why then, did not one of the teams drafting an OT in the first 8 picks offer up that #1 for Peters? Additionally, there was another OT taken at #24. That's 4 OTs taken before the #28 (and later picks) we got for Peters. Is his "greatness" a rumor or an over-exaggeration that has snowballed following repeated praise? Ruben Brown was a guy whose reputation preceded him. Great guy and all, one of my all-time favorites, good player with a few great seasons, but let's face it - there were superior guards left out of the February trip to Hawaii when Ruben became an annual participant in the probowl. Could Peters have been the benefactor of similar reputation enhancement? OK - so Peters was a little rusty coming into the season last year after holding out. Still, if he's so great, why did he suck so bad in pass protection in the early going. He looked like a revolving door in those games. I don't know how many sack/pressures he was presonally responsible for, but I believe it was more than just a couple. I'd give him some slack for the holdout, but his "greatness" should have made up for some of it. Here's what I'm getting at: Maybe he isn't that great afterall. I wonder if the Bills pulled a fast one by dumping him on the Eagles for those draft picks. If he's so outstanding, why didn't one of the teams taking an early round OT offer the pick for the proven probowler? The only conclusion I can draw is that he's not as highly regarded among NFL personnel people as he is in the media. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbringer Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 We'll know in about six months... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Billnyc said he had a conversation w/ Jumbo Elliot and he said it would take 5-6 games to get back after a hold out. I can see that. He was much better later in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Sorry to belabor the Jason Peters topic, but the recent statements regarding the Eagle's offensive line cram course got me thinking again about his actual ability as compared to his perceived prowess on the field. If Jason Peters is so highly regarded as a pro-bowl level offensive tackle, why didn't one of the teams that drafted an OT in the first 8 picks of the 2009 draft, offer up that pick for Peters? Everyone knows that there is no "sure thing" in the NFL draft. Peters was already a proven commodity. Less risk, right?Peters is NFL-ready. The drafted OTs will likely have a learning curve as they become acclimated to the ways of the NFL. Assuming they have the ability and drive, it may take the rookies a year or two (at least) to reach Peter's supposed pro-bowl level of playing. The teams that drafted the high first round OTs will early on be paying huge bucks for the player's potential rather than for on field performance. The player will make rookie mistakes at the expense of the team owner's bank account. With Peters, it's pretty much plug & play - immediate return on the dollar - right? It's not as if Peters has his best days behind him. He's still young, in his prime, and should have several more years of productivity to offer. So why then, did not one of the teams drafting an OT in the first 8 picks offer up that #1 for Peters? Additionally, there was another OT taken at #24. That's 4 OTs taken before the #28 (and later picks) we got for Peters. Is his "greatness" a rumor or an over-exaggeration that has snowballed following repeated praise? Ruben Brown was a guy whose reputation preceded him. Great guy and all, one of my all-time favorites, good player with a few great seasons, but let's face it - there were superior guards left out of the February trip to Hawaii when Ruben became an annual participant in the probowl. Could Peters have been the benefactor of similar reputation enhancement? OK - so Peters was a little rusty coming into the season last year after holding out. Still, if he's so great, why did he suck so bad in pass protection in the early going. He looked like a revolving door in those games. I don't know how many sack/pressures he was presonally responsible for, but I believe it was more than just a couple. I'd give him some slack for the holdout, but his "greatness" should have made up for some of it. Here's what I'm getting at: Maybe he isn't that great afterall. I wonder if the Bills pulled a fast one by dumping him on the Eagles for those draft picks. If he's so outstanding, why didn't one of the teams taking an early round OT offer the pick for the proven probowler? The only conclusion I can draw is that he's not as highly regarded among NFL personnel people as he is in the media. Thoughts? See any single one of the 14,000,000 Jason Peters threads for everyone's feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpcolosi Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Sorry to belabor the Jason Peters topic, but the recent statements regarding the Eagle's offensive line cram course got me thinking again about his actual ability as compared to his perceived prowess on the field. If Jason Peters is so highly regarded as a pro-bowl level offensive tackle, why didn't one of the teams that drafted an OT in the first 8 picks of the 2009 draft, offer up that pick for Peters? Everyone knows that there is no "sure thing" in the NFL draft. Peters was already a proven commodity. Less risk, right?Peters is NFL-ready. The drafted OTs will likely have a learning curve as they become acclimated to the ways of the NFL. Assuming they have the ability and drive, it may take the rookies a year or two (at least) to reach Peter's supposed pro-bowl level of playing. The teams that drafted the high first round OTs will early on be paying huge bucks for the player's potential rather than for on field performance. The player will make rookie mistakes at the expense of the team owner's bank account. With Peters, it's pretty much plug & play - immediate return on the dollar - right? It's not as if Peters has his best days behind him. He's still young, in his prime, and should have several more years of productivity to offer. So why then, did not one of the teams drafting an OT in the first 8 picks offer up that #1 for Peters? Additionally, there was another OT taken at #24. That's 4 OTs taken before the #28 (and later picks) we got for Peters. Is his "greatness" a rumor or an over-exaggeration that has snowballed following repeated praise? Ruben Brown was a guy whose reputation preceded him. Great guy and all, one of my all-time favorites, good player with a few great seasons, but let's face it - there were superior guards left out of the February trip to Hawaii when Ruben became an annual participant in the probowl. Could Peters have been the benefactor of similar reputation enhancement? OK - so Peters was a little rusty coming into the season last year after holding out. Still, if he's so great, why did he suck so bad in pass protection in the early going. He looked like a revolving door in those games. I don't know how many sack/pressures he was presonally responsible for, but I believe it was more than just a couple. I'd give him some slack for the holdout, but his "greatness" should have made up for some of it. Here's what I'm getting at: Maybe he isn't that great afterall. I wonder if the Bills pulled a fast one by dumping him on the Eagles for those draft picks. If he's so outstanding, why didn't one of the teams taking an early round OT offer the pick for the proven probowler? The only conclusion I can draw is that he's not as highly regarded among NFL personnel people as he is in the media. Thoughts? nothing revolutionary in this post... who knows, we'll find out at the end of the season but when was the last time the bills FO pulled a 'fast one' ? when polian traded for cornelius bennett and that was awhile ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Billnyc said he had a conversation w/ Jumbo Elliot and he said it would take 5-6 games to get back after a hold out. I can see that. He was much better later in the season. Yes - he was particularly great on that Abram Elam sack that cost us the Jets game - you know...the play where he stood there, eyes agape, brain disengaged, body apparently 'on vacation', and did absolutely NOTHING as Elam laughed his way past the immobile, dumbfounded, almighty Jason. Perhaps he was still holding out in week 15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 nothing revolutionary in this post... who knows, we'll find out at the end of the season but when was the last time the bills FO pulled a 'fast one' ? when polian traded for cornelius bennett and that was awhile ago. How about when they traded Spikes or, better yet, when they got two thirds plus for McGahee, who now may not even start. Those thirds turned into Edwards and the better part of Stroud, IIRC....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 How about when they traded Spikes or, better yet, when they got two thirds plus for McGahee, who now may not even start. Those thirds turned into Edwards and the better part of Stroud, IIRC....... Yep, those would count. As would trading Darwin Walker to the Bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Question: How long did it take us to replace Ruben Brown with a good player after we let him go? Answer. We still haven't. We can hope that one of our rooks eventually does it, but there are no guarantees. Over and over again we thought we had the position handled, and discovered we didn't, right down to Dockery. Ruben was an absolute road-grader. It was frustrating watching him get penalties for moving early so often, but he was massively underrated when here, and serious Bills fans should realize that the guy really was as good as they thought he was. One of the toughest guys in the league. This is the problem. When a guy plays on your team, at o-line, if he's good you don't notice him until he makes a mistake. So you underrate him. Peters pretty much disappeared late in the season last year. In a good way. Why didn't teams trade for him? Who knows. Maybe they weren't sure they could sign him. Maybe they didn't want to spend the money. Maybe they wanted a guy to train in their own systems from the beginning. Maybe they wanted a different type. Maybe Peters stuck his tongue out at them at the Pro Bowl. Basically, who knows. Did the fact that nobody traded a top 5 pick for Randy Moss when he was in Oakland mean that he sucked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Yes - he was particularly great on that Abram Elam sack that cost us the Jets game - you know...the play where he stood there, eyes agape, brain disengaged, body apparently 'on vacation', and did absolutely NOTHING as Elam laughed his way past the immobile, dumbfounded, almighty Jason. Perhaps he was still holding out in week 15? I remember the play, the one where it wasn't Peters's man who made the sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 See any single one of the 14,000,000 Jason Peters threads for everyone's feelings. Ha ha ha. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Thoughts? Peter's greatness is his athleticism. He is SUPREMELY talented athletically. Remember, he was a too-big Tight End, with a learning disability, in college. He is really just learning to play LT, and has made the Pro Bowl twice. (Most LTs in the NFL have played the position for years, in High School and College.) Some may argue he didn't deserve it in 2008, but nobody worth listening to is saying he didn't deserve it in 2007. In another thread, some are questioning McNally's coaching now, because Philly's OL coach is re-teaching Peters to play LT. There is nothing wrong with questioning McNally (or anyone, for that matter), but I think it is misplaced in this situation. McNally had to teach Peters the basics, and get him ready to play tackle in very short order. He became a GREAT RT right off the bat...but let's be honest here, he was still a toddler at playing tackle. When he switched from RT to LT he excelled and made the Pro Bowl in his first full year at the position. Not too shabby, right? But, now he needs to become better at technique, and progress as a LT the way most who play the position did when they were first learning the position. He learned to walk at the position, now he needs to learn to run at the position. But, looking at what he has already accomplished in such a very short time, it seems likely he will continue to improve, and become a true powerhouse LT in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I remember the play, the one where it wasn't Peters's man who made the sack. Yes, you got it - it was the play where FatBoy, even though he had a clear opportunity to throw a block, just stood there and did nothing, blocked no one, made no attempt whatsoever to move his fat ass and try to at least knock Elam off-stride as he breezed right by the statue that was Peters. That was the play. Glad you remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quester74 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 How about when they traded Spikes or, better yet, when they got two thirds plus for McGahee, who now may not even start. Those thirds turned into Edwards and the better part of Stroud, IIRC....... I recall getting the better end of the Peerless Price trade, too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Quint Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Yes, you got it - it was the play where FatBoy, even though he had a clear opportunity to throw a block, just stood there and did nothing, blocked no one, made no attempt whatsoever to move his fat ass and try to at least knock Elam off-stride as he breezed right by the statue that was Peters. That was the play. Glad you remember. Exactly. He blocked nobody on that play. He tried, but was burnt: That was his assignment, Thurmanator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Why didn't teams trade for him? Who knows. Maybe they weren't sure they could sign him. Maybe they didn't want to spend the money. Maybe they wanted a guy to train in their own systems from the beginning. Maybe they wanted a different type. Maybe Peters stuck his tongue out at them at the Pro Bowl. Basically, who knows. Did the fact that nobody traded a top 5 pick for Randy Moss when he was in Oakland mean that he sucked? When those teams drafted their OT prospects, were they "sure they could sign" them? How much more $$ is Peters getting than guys drafted in the top 10? They command huge money, but often don't have immediate rewards. I don't by the "own system" argument. Didn't the rookies come from a differenbt system at their respective schools? How many types of OTs are there? It's not a QB we're talking about here. Moss had some baggage and was throught to be near the end of his career. Who knew the hook-up with Brady would give him new life? I'm sticking to my belief that Peters is overrated. Not saying he sucks or anything like that, I just don't see him as the top L OT in the league as some have portrayed him. I honestly don't think the dropoff on the left side is going to be that noticeable. It's not as if whoever is playing there will be a human totempole, incapable of blocking anyone. Maybe the Bills have high hopes for some of the younger guys. I'll be keeping an eye on Demetrius Bell, who did everything expected of him in training camp and preseason last year, and didn't look at all out of place, even when matched up against some of the opponent's first team defense. Judging from the projected o-line for 2009, I think the Bills' philosophy is to develop a line with good intelligence, a similar mindset , and the hope of building great chemistry so they can act as a single unit. (see: Bills O-line, late '80s-early 1990s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conch Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Exactly. He blocked nobody on that play. He tried, but was burnt: That was his assignment, Thurmanator. Well he probably tried to think about blocking the guy and was almost sorry he missed him but he was really thinking about his contract, so as he said, it didn't really matter that he missed the block because thinking about his contract during the game was more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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