Where the Bills are Still the Weakest .....

[Sisyphean Bills]

I don't think jailbreaks can ever be avoided, no matter how good the line is. Good QB's will either hit the hot reads, throw it away or, at worst, step up in the pocket to minimize the damage. Bad QB's will drop back further and turn a 5 yd sack into a 10 yd sack with a potential fumble or even better a pick 6.

I think we probably have a different working definition of "jail break" here. What I meant is situations were pass rushers are coming through the line in multiple gaps while the OL stands there confused and barely, if at all, touching much of the traffic flowing past them. That happened all too often in the past and that is entirely avoidable with an even adequate line playing as a unit.

 

I think what you may mean is situations were there are more defenders coming than there are blockers. This can also be countered by going to max pro, which would keep 8 blockers in. So, the defense would have to all-out blitz with 9 guys to outnumber the protectors, leaving the WRs in man coverage and one slip or missed tackle away from a touchdown. Rushing 9 just doesn't happen all that often. Still, there are times when you are absolutely going to be outnumbered in terms of rushers and the line should block inside out and it is the QBs responsibility to make the free defender miss and/or get rid of the ball. Flutie was freakishly good at avoiding free defenders, I hope we agree on that.

[The Senator]

There are no weaknesses. None.

 

19 and 0 baby!!!

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!!

 

PosLUSZny!!!!!

[Hossage]

I think we are weakest in the eyeballs. Poke a bills player in the eye and he cant make the play.

[thewildrabbit]

The # 1 weakest area is undoubtedly the O line with 2 rookies slated to start at guard and a back up FA at center, still no positive idea on exactly who will start at RT.

Talk about rebuilding,you expect to see moves like this on a 0-16 team like the Lions, and not a team that just went 7-9 the last 3 years, very disappointing.

 

 

The #2 weakest area is the O line coach IMO, he replaced one of the best O line coaches in the NFL in Jim McNally. Jim M likened Jason Peters to Anthony Munoz. Once he left the team and they promoted an unknown to line coach the play dropped sharply from the entire line, but fans and coaches blame it on the players. Nevertheless, the new line coach failed to get maximum effort out of veterans.

 

The #3 weakest area is the offensive coordinator, this is a guy who was a back up QB for 10 years and yet he failed to understand that when your RB is tearing the opponent a new one by rushing for amazing yards... you don't stop using him and constantly throw the ball with a back up QB in the game, just unbelievably moronic.

 

The #4 weakest area is the head coach. Jauron inherited a team that was on the verge of playoffs and started rebuilding it his way. Tampa 2 (which I can't stand) and installed a Mike Martz offense with Steve Fairchild. Both of those schemes have faded from the all other teams and only the Bills still run the Tampa 2, the bend but don't break defense that Tom Brady tears up every time he faces it.

 

I want the Bills to win and actually be competitive in the division, last year they were swept in the division and I just can't see them beating anyone other then the Jets maybe once.

 

Perhaps next season RW will face the reality of what he has on the sidelines and make a move for a name coach that will actually teach the team how to win.

[Orton's Arm]

The # 1 weakest area is undoubtedly the O line with 2 rookies slated to start at guard and a back up FA at center, still no positive idea on exactly who will start at RT.

Talk about rebuilding,you expect to see moves like this on a 0-16 team like the Lions, and not a team that just went 7-9 the last 3 years, very disappointing.

 

 

The #2 weakest area is the O line coach IMO, he replaced one of the best O line coaches in the NFL in Jim McNally. Jim M likened Jason Peters to Anthony Munoz. Once he left the team and they promoted an unknown to line coach the play dropped sharply from the entire line, but fans and coaches blame it on the players. Nevertheless, the new line coach failed to get maximum effort out of veterans.

 

The #3 weakest area is the offensive coordinator, this is a guy who was a back up QB for 10 years and yet he failed to understand that when your RB is tearing the opponent a new one by rushing for amazing yards... you don't stop using him and constantly throw the ball with a back up QB in the game, just unbelievably moronic.

 

The #4 weakest area is the head coach. Jauron inherited a team that was on the verge of playoffs and started rebuilding it his way. Tampa 2 (which I can't stand) and installed a Mike Martz offense with Steve Fairchild. Both of those schemes have faded from the all other teams and only the Bills still run the Tampa 2, the bend but don't break defense that Tom Brady tears up every time he faces it.

 

I want the Bills to win and actually be competitive in the division, last year they were swept in the division and I just can't see them beating anyone other then the Jets maybe once.

 

Perhaps next season RW will face the reality of what he has on the sidelines and make a move for a name coach that will actually teach the team how to win.

Playoffs? Playoffs! Don't talk to me about the playoffs. The Buffalo Bills of 2005 were

. They went 5-11, largely because they didn't have any offensive linemen (except Jason Peters), they didn't have a quarterback (except an aging Kelly Holcomb), and didn't have anyone at DT. In fact, the defense was keyed by aging veterans such as Lawyer Milloy, Troy Vincent, and London Fletcher. As sad as it sounds, guys like those represented the core of the team (such as it was). Not only was that 5-11 team very far from the playoffs, but--other than a Lee Evans here or a Josh Reed there--it lacked a foundation upon which a playoff team could be built.

 

I agree with a lot of the other points you raised in your post though.

[thewildrabbit]

Playoffs? Playoffs! Don't talk to me about the playoffs. The Buffalo Bills of 2005 were

. They went 5-11, largely because they didn't have any offensive linemen (except Jason Peters), they didn't have a quarterback (except an aging Kelly Holcomb), and didn't have anyone at DT. In fact, the defense was keyed by aging veterans such as Lawyer Milloy, Troy Vincent, and London Fletcher. As sad as it sounds, guys like those represented the core of the team (such as it was). Not only was that 5-11 team very far from the playoffs, but--other than a Lee Evans here or a Josh Reed there--it lacked a foundation upon which a playoff team could be built.

 

I agree with a lot of the other points you raised in your post though.

You are quite right, I had forgotten about that 5-11 season where Mularkey kept pulling JP in and out for Kelly Holcomb, the Bills still managed to beat the Jets and Dolphins once each though

 

Pulling JP in and out of games ruined the kids confidence and basically Mularkey screwed himself out of a job. Didn't he start calling offensive plays during that season and demote the OC, who was then fired right after the season ended?

 

They didn't have a decent DT because they didn't want to pay Pat Williams and let him go to the Vikings in the off season between 04-05

 

It was the year before in 2004, where if the Bills manage to beat the Steelers backup players in that last game of the season they make the playoffs, the Steelers rested the starters and backup unknown Willie Parker steps up to tear the Bills a new one. So they were one game away in 04 and bombed in 05.

Still, that team had some very good players on it. So they were one year removed from "on the verge".

 

So I disagree on your last statement that "it lacked a foundation upon which a playoff team could be built". The Bills were 7-9 previous to 05 and went 7-9 after 05 and JP actually had a very good year and it was thought he would have a breakout season in 07, till they drafted Edwards and JP is looking over his shoulder again. The bills still had McGahee and Moulds along with Lee Evans in 05.

[zazie]

After looking over the Bills from top to bottom, I believe the Bills biggest weakness is the Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator and Defensive Coordinator.

 

The front office did a pretty good job in free agency working within the cap. The draft, I believe was pretty damn good.

It is a pity things did not work out better with Peters, but I really question if it ever would, for he wanted out. He did not believe he was treated fairly. The Bills came out of it pretty good.

 

The Bills are going into next season with a special teams unit ranked last year as #1... Coach April would make a great head coach. Put that in your memory bank if things go sour this year especially around the bye...

 

The defense was ranked 14th best and with the changes made in the front office and players retuning from injury the defense should improve to around 10th to 12th best over all.

 

The offensive line last year stunk. Few holes and lanes were opened to Lynch and Jackson. They seem to get most of the yardage on the ground by themselves. The line is better with better talent but oh my god the growing pains. It will take a few weeks for them to gell. But the talent is there where it was not last year. We have a improved receiving corp with strong runners and a very youthfull O-Line. Can Edwards and Turk make it work? Won't know till they try.

 

Brings us to the weakest part of the team where there were no improvements made last year.... god help us I hope they improve. Can they make the playoffs........??? Don't know.... Will they be a exciting team to watch...??? Hell Yes...

 

I don't want to miss a game, but I will bring my crying towel with me when I am watching... I will share if you are sitting next to me.

Amen to that!

[zazie]

I'd say LOPR like others have pointed out, WLB, and #2 DT to go along with Stroud. We definitely need guys to get to the QB. It was flat out horrible last year when Schobel went down. Hopefully his presence on one side will atleast help the rest of the front be able to get more pressure with the focus he will command along with Stroud. If Maybin can get 6-8 sacks this year I'll be ecstatic. Hopefully Denney and Kelsay can combine for 6-8 more with Schobel being back with 10+. Our defense would likely be top 5 if these guys can harass and get to the QB at this clip. I think we could POSSIBLY have the answer to the WLB problem already in Bowen, Thomas, or Nic Harris, but it would've been nice to see Tino sign with the Bills. Ellison is nothing more than average on his best days. About the DT spot, Williams is alright and McCargo still has potential, but it sure would be nice to have Henderson

If you include "would be" sacks during OTAs, this number is attainable by Kelsay/Denney. If you mean in real games during the season, fuggedaboutit

[Orton's Arm]

You are quite right, I had forgotten about that 5-11 season where Mularkey kept pulling JP in and out for Kelly Holcomb, the Bills still managed to beat the Jets and Dolphins once each though

 

Pulling JP in and out of games ruined the kids confidence and basically Mularkey screwed himself out of a job. Didn't he start calling offensive plays during that season and demote the OC, who was then fired right after the season ended?

 

They didn't have a decent DT because they didn't want to pay Pat Williams and let him go to the Vikings in the off season between 04-05

 

It was the year before in 2004, where if the Bills manage to beat the Steelers backup players in that last game of the season they make the playoffs, the Steelers rested the starters and backup unknown Willie Parker steps up to tear the Bills a new one. So they were one game away in 04 and bombed in 05.

Still, that team had some very good players on it. So they were one year removed from "on the verge".

 

So I disagree on your last statement that "it lacked a foundation upon which a playoff team could be built". The Bills were 7-9 previous to 05 and went 7-9 after 05 and JP actually had a very good year and it was thought he would have a breakout season in 07, till they drafted Edwards and JP is looking over his shoulder again. The bills still had McGahee and Moulds along with Lee Evans in 05.

You may be right about what pulling JP did for his confidence. On the other hand, Losman played very badly in games 2 - 4; and that was in his second year in that offense. I've seen it argued that, during those four games, it was already starting to become clear that Losman would be a bust. Frankly, I don't think there's much Mularkey could have done to have avoided that outcome for JP. Not that he handled the situation well, but it probably didn't matter.

 

In defense of my statement that the 2005 Bills lacked a foundation upon which a playoff team could be built . . . consider that some of the key players from the 2004 Bills were lost due to free agency, or released. Jonas Jennings comes to mind. As does Ross Tucker. TD finally found a solution to the open wound of the RG position, and released him in the offseason. Losing those two guys was a big part of the reason why the offensive line had an unexpected flirtation with decency in 2004, but was a complete train wreck in 2005.

 

We also lost Bledsoe after 2004. That's not as big a deal to me as it is to some. In my view, Holcomb provided a somewhat better year of quarterbacking in 2005 than Bledsoe had in 2004.

 

The success of the 2004 Bills was largely keyed by its defense. A lot of aging defenders who played well in 2004 hit the wall during the 2005 season, and were released or traded for peanuts after the 2005 season was over. Very little of the talent that led the Bills to their 2004 flirtation with the playoffs was still with us come 2006.

 

The 7-9 season of 2006 was largely due to a lot of new faces. I don't remember the percentage of the roster Marv replaced in his first year, but I recall it was quite high. We had a lot of rookies playing that year, plus second or third rate free agents such as Melvin Fowler, Tutan Reyes, Robert Royal, Peerless Price, etc. Marv and Jauron achieved 7-9 not because they'd built upon 2004, but because they'd largely started from scratch. But, in too many cases, they started from scratch with substandard materials.

[thewildrabbit]

You may be right about what pulling JP did for his confidence. On the other hand, Losman played very badly in games 2 - 4; and that was in his second year in that offense. I've seen it argued that, during those four games, it was already starting to become clear that Losman would be a bust. Frankly, I don't think there's much Mularkey could have done to have avoided that outcome for JP. Not that he handled the situation well, but it probably didn't matter.

 

In defense of my statement that the 2005 Bills lacked a foundation upon which a playoff team could be built . . . consider that some of the key players from the 2004 Bills were lost due to free agency, or released. Jonas Jennings comes to mind. As does Ross Tucker. TD finally found a solution to the open wound of the RG position, and released him in the offseason. Losing those two guys was a big part of the reason why the offensive line had an unexpected flirtation with decency in 2004, but was a complete train wreck in 2005.

 

We also lost Bledsoe after 2004. That's not as big a deal to me as it is to some. In my view, Holcomb provided a somewhat better year of quarterbacking in 2005 than Bledsoe had in 2004.

 

The success of the 2004 Bills was largely keyed by its defense. A lot of aging defenders who played well in 2004 hit the wall during the 2005 season, and were released or traded for peanuts after the 2005 season was over. Very little of the talent that led the Bills to their 2004 flirtation with the playoffs was still with us come 2006.

 

The 7-9 season of 2006 was largely due to a lot of new faces. I don't remember the percentage of the roster Marv replaced in his first year, but I recall it was quite high. We had a lot of rookies playing that year, plus second or third rate free agents such as Melvin Fowler, Tutan Reyes, Robert Royal, Peerless Price, etc. Marv and Jauron achieved 7-9 not because they'd built upon 2004, but because they'd largely started from scratch. But, in too many cases, they started from scratch with substandard materials.

Again we disagree, The Bills flopping in 05 was because they let Bledsoe go, the guy had a rocket arm but was plagued with immobility. Oddly enough JP was brought in to counter that situation and yet they forced him to stay in a pocket that never lasted very long and JP developed into another Bledsoe. The Bills O line never gave Bledsoe or JP the protection they needed, ever! We as fans thought that JP was brought in because of his superb athleticism, and he would be used to roll out and scramble, instead they force him to stay in a constantly collapsing pocket to throw.

 

 

Go look at that 2006 roster, the bills had some good players, I'd be willing to bet that the FO thought they had a good enough team in 06 to make the playoffs. If anything it is the fact that Jauron hasn't been able to beat the Patriots, In 06 they won 2 of 6 in the division which will never get a team into the playoffs. Turn that number around and the bills go 11-5 if they win 4 of 6 in the division.

 

The Bill went on a tear the second half of 06 beating the Packers, Texans and Jags while,

They played the colts with Payton Manning at INDY and lost 16-17. Keeping that vaunted Colts offense to 17 pts

They lost at home to the Chargers 21-24

In week 14 they beat the Jets 31-13

In week 15 they pounded the Dolphins 21-0

If I recall correctly they played Tennessee at home in week 16 for a shot at the playoffs and lost that game 29-30.

Then lost at Baltimore 7-19 for the final game. The Bills could have easily been 10-6 that year if they get some breaks

 

There were very high expectations of JP going into the 07 season and rightly so as he played very well in the latter part of 06 without a decent running attack.

[jester43]

After looking over the Bills from top to bottom, I believe the Bills biggest weakness is the Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator and Defensive Coordinator.

you forgot "Owner."

[atlbillsfan1975]

The # 1 weakest area is undoubtedly the O line with 2 rookies slated to start at guard and a back up FA at center, still no positive idea on exactly who will start at RT.

Talk about rebuilding,you expect to see moves like this on a 0-16 team like the Lions, and not a team that just went 7-9 the last 3 years, very disappointing.

 

 

The #2 weakest area is the O line coach IMO, he replaced one of the best O line coaches in the NFL in Jim McNally. Jim M likened Jason Peters to Anthony Munoz. Once he left the team and they promoted an unknown to line coach the play dropped sharply from the entire line, but fans and coaches blame it on the players. Nevertheless, the new line coach failed to get maximum effort out of veterans.

 

The #3 weakest area is the offensive coordinator, this is a guy who was a back up QB for 10 years and yet he failed to understand that when your RB is tearing the opponent a new one by rushing for amazing yards... you don't stop using him and constantly throw the ball with a back up QB in the game, just unbelievably moronic.

 

The #4 weakest area is the head coach. Jauron inherited a team that was on the verge of playoffs and started rebuilding it his way. Tampa 2 (which I can't stand) and installed a Mike Martz offense with Steve Fairchild. Both of those schemes have faded from the all other teams and only the Bills still run the Tampa 2, the bend but don't break defense that Tom Brady tears up every time he faces it.

 

I want the Bills to win and actually be competitive in the division, last year they were swept in the division and I just can't see them beating anyone other then the Jets maybe once.

 

Perhaps next season RW will face the reality of what he has on the sidelines and make a move for a name coach that will actually teach the team how to win.

I have heard all this talk about Mcnally, and i even bought into it for awhile. Then i started thinking, did the Bills have a dominating offensive line and i missed it? No they did not. He might have been a good instructor, maybe good at teaching individuals the fundementals of the game, but as a unit the Oline was never dominating under him. Then news came out of Philly that they are haveing to coach up Peters. Now is that a product of poor Bills coaching, btw everyone credits McNally as the guy who turned Peters into the LT he is. So i dont think McNally is such a loss as everyone thinks.

I would rather watch a young progressing Oline with a lot of potential, then an Oline with a bunch of underachieving vets.

To me it seems like the Bills went across the Oline and said keep him and him(Walker and Butler) id like to keep him but cant (Peters) and he is a good swingman/backup guy so keep him(Chambers). Everone else goes pretty much. And to be honest i cant arguee with it one bit. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. The Bills FO (and most of us) saw the Oline was underachieving and made some bold and drastic moves. I for one give them credit. How long it takes them to come together is the key to this season. If they give Edwards time and open lanes for Lynch and the boys, then this will be a fun ride!!!!

Oh and you guys that say it isnt going to happen are just as right as those of us who say it can happen!!!

[thewildrabbit]

I have heard all this talk about Mcnally, and i even bought into it for awhile. Then i started thinking, did the Bills have a dominating offensive line and i missed it? No they did not. He might have been a good instructor, maybe good at teaching individuals the fundementals of the game, but as a unit the Oline was never dominating under him. Then news came out of Philly that they are haveing to coach up Peters. Now is that a product of poor Bills coaching, btw everyone credits McNally as the guy who turned Peters into the LT he is. So i dont think McNally is such a loss as everyone thinks.

I would rather watch a young progressing Oline with a lot of potential, then an Oline with a bunch of underachieving vets.

To me it seems like the Bills went across the Oline and said keep him and him(Walker and Butler) id like to keep him but cant (Peters) and he is a good swingman/backup guy so keep him(Chambers). Everone else goes pretty much. And to be honest i cant arguee with it one bit. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. The Bills FO (and most of us) saw the Oline was underachieving and made some bold and drastic moves. I for one give them credit. How long it takes them to come together is the key to this season. If they give Edwards time and open lanes for Lynch and the boys, then this will be a fun ride!!!!

Oh and you guys that say it isnt going to happen are just as right as those of us who say it can happen!!!

First let me say I'm not to keen on the "zone" blocking scheme the Bills utilize , so I think that who ever coaches the Bills is restricted to what style they use. Next, The Bills have been a revolving door at every position the last few years except LT with Jason Peters.

 

Then what you gotta understand about the O line is one word, "continuity", players usually need to play together on the line for a few years before they develop into a completely functional cohesive unit.

 

Like I stated in other posts, the Patriots draft linemen and they sit on the bench and play special teams while leaning their position for a few years so that when needed they can step in and not miss a beat. Most really good teams have some depth on the offensive line so if one is injured another can step in and not much of a drop off occurs.

 

The Bills have been searching for a center and guards for years it seems, the one position that was locked down by an all pro was traded away...

 

Any coach can only do so much with the talent he is given to work with, what Jauron should have done when he first got to Buffalo is what the Mangenius did with the NY Jets, draft some linemen his first year. Its what Parcells did in Miami, you always start with the O line and once that is solid you move on, everything on the offense revolves around the O line.

[generaLee83]

ya our o-line was down right terribel. Our joke of a center (no matter who is was) got pushed back almost everytime. So the o-line is still a question mark, but it cant really be worse than lasts year, could it? I hope not!

 

How are things in Minnesota?

[RI Bills Fan]

Then what you gotta understand about the O line is one word, "continuity", players usually need to play together on the line for a few years before they develop into a completely functional cohesive unit.

 

Like I stated in other posts, the Patriots draft linemen and they sit on the bench and play special teams while leaning their position for a few years so that when needed they can step in and not miss a beat. Most really good teams have some depth on the offensive line so if one is injured another can step in and not much of a drop off occurs.

 

I'm calling BS on the bolded part of your post.

 

This was the Cheatriots* starting O-line last year:

 

LT – Matt Light – Drafted 2001 2nd Round 48th overall played in 14 games, STARTED 12

LG – Logan Mankins – Drafted 2005 1st Round 32nt overall played in 16 games, STARTED 16

OC – Dan Koppen – Drafted 2003 5th Round 164th overall played in 16 games, STARTED 15

RG – Steven Neal – UDFA 2001, played in 2 games, STARTED 1 in 2002, became a full time started in 2004

RT – Nick Kazur – Drafted 2005 3rd Round 100th overall played in 14 games, STARTED 11

 

Please note that the only member of that o-line that didn't start better than half the games in his rookie year was an undrafted free agent wrestler who didn't even play football in college.

[ganesh]

The offensive line is going to be a mess. As bad as the run blocking was last year, I suspect it will be worse this year. And the pass protection will be worse, much worse. Let's hope the rookies in Wood and Levitre show same flashes otherwise things will be depressing.

 

We were already pretty bad....How much worse can they get. I don't expect these guys to come in and turn it around..>There are growing pains....I believe the draft was all about finding players with attitude, players wanting to win (Not a Jason Peters)....I believe these players will come in and change the attitude in the clubhouse...Sure it will take time, but eventually they will be taking over.

[DIE HARD 1967]

Depth behind Aaron Schobel

 

If he starts limping again, we will have no pass rush

[silvermike]

The bottom line with this team is that the only veteran starter we added along the lines was Geoff Hangartener. Otherwise, improvement is going to come from developing youngsters (McCargo, Williams, Butler), or rookies (Maybin, Levitre, Wood). It could happen, it might not, but it's going to be a bright red question mark until we take the field in Foxboro.

[WellDressed]

In their own shoes.