From an ACTUAL Source

[Mr. WEO]

I actually addressed that already.

 

You really think an entire team can be built through 3 FA's and 3 drafts? The additions from draft and FA #4 have yet to take the field.

 

So I ask again- can a team be COMPLETELY rebuilt with 3 drafts (a 50/50 crap shoot) and 3 FA's (in Buffalo)?

 

Really? Can't be done?

 

Colts did it in the late 90's. The Pats did it in the 00's (in fact they are doing it continuously--letting "stars" walk out the door and replacing them other guys). The Falcons did it in like a year or two. The F-ing Dolphins are doing it right now! Do you really think that the Dolphins are a more talented team than the Bills were last season?

 

Let's take a different angle ------why don't you or any one of the DJ supporters tell us exactly what it is you see every Sunday that tells you, "DJ is a good HC". What is it that he is really good at?

[Sisyphean Bills]

Oh yes. All NFL teams are watered down. The Bills have as good of a chance at the Super Bowl as the 2008 Cardinals. Give me a break!

 

We don't have the talent at ANY unit which is the equivalent of the Warner/Boldin/Fitzgerald threat. Simple.

 

You're right, for the most part, that throughout the NFL, talent is relatively even.

 

So, when I say talent is fairly even and every team has issues, you say F*** YOU! (I'll assume you don't remember the old days when coaching wasn't as integral to the game; but, here is a hint, they didn't always wear headsets and call all the plays from the sidelines or upstairs.)

 

But, when Ramius says the same thing, you agree.

[Flbillsfan#1]

You're right, for the most part, that throughout the NFL, talent is relatively even.

 

But the good teams more often than not carry one or more superstars, more often than not at key positions (QB, RB, WR, MLB, DE, DT,).

 

Jauron's always had teams with average talent, but I don't think he's ever coached superstar (may be young Urlacher), but certainly never at QB. And if you don't think a superstar QB mattesr in the NFL, then you clearly weren't listening to Steve Young over the weekend.

 

Seriously though, having a good quarterback is pretty important. And Jaurons' never had one. I'm still not sure he does. I'd like he to think he does, but Trent's got some serious room to grow.

Dick has a future HOF WR in TO this year, along with a QB that I am told is JOE MONTANA LIKE. NO EXCUSES IN 09.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Oh yes. All NFL teams are watered down. The Bills have as good of a chance at the Super Bowl as the 2008 Cardinals. Give me a break!

 

We don't have the talent at ANY unit which is the equivalent of the Warner/Boldin/Fitzgerald threat. Simple.

I would put the Bills Special Teams Unit up against ANY in the NFL.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I did miss it the first time.

 

Probably I don't see any examples of "holes" created by the cuts in 2006 being put on hold until 2009 draft/FA.

 

Let me type GG's question slowly, so you can follow along.

 

2006 was DJ's first year in Buffalo. He had direct input into exactly how he wanted to set about fixing the "mess" that Donahoe left behind.

 

GG is asking why the players aquired in 06 by Jauron are now be jettisoned in 09 by the current brain trust. For example, the reason given by many fans for the Byrd pick was that it "addressed a hole at FS" -- a hole that was filled with Ko Simpson and Donte Whitner, on the current roster, and top picks in the 06 draft.

 

In other words, if the Bills are now replacing Jauron's picks because they are "holes" then what evidence do you have that this time around it will be any different? How is it that Jauron never has any talent but gets direct input as to his players and replaces the players he was involved with picking up in the first place?

[The Big Cat]

Really? Can't be done?

 

Colts did it in the late 90's. The Pats did it in the 00's (in fact they are doing it continuously--letting "stars" walk out the door and replacing them other guys). The Falcons did it in like a year or two. The F-ing Dolphins are doing it right now! Do you really think that the Dolphins are a more talented team than the Bills were last season?

 

Let's take a different angle ------why don't you or any one of the DJ supporters tell us exactly what it is you see every Sunday that tells you, "DJ is a good HC". What is it that he is really good at?

 

And you've named three teams with a luxury not afforded to the Bills (or any team coached by Jauro): savvy QB play.

 

It remains to be seen whether the Dolphins are "doing it right now." In fact, I'm expecting a significant drop off in this upcoming year.

 

But, the other three teams you mentioned are/were successful because they succeeded at something 99% of teams fail to do: draft a franchise quarterback.

 

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I'll quote myself:

Edwards is the wild-card this year

 

And, the answer to your question about "what DOES make him a good coach" can be found in the very first post of this thread. I don't see "good coaching" on Sundays. But I see some pretty bad plays by our players which directly cost us games (3 out of the last 4 possessions in the first MIA game ended in turnover (one inside the redzone), three first quarter picks against CLE, 2 missed chip shots against SF, and the epic Losman Jets debacle.) I was at the SF game, we had receivers wide open down field all day, and Trent didn't throw them the ball. But that's somehow Jauron's fault.

 

That's what I see the players doing, and that's what I see us costing us games.

 

I don't see the coach coaching. None of us do. Because 90% of his coaching doesn't take place on Sundays. So, we'll have to go with what the insiders say, and TO A MAN, they rave about what a great guy he is, how noble, trustworthy, and respectful he is, and that's what makes a good coach. That kind of person CANNOT f-ck it up for a talented team.

[The Big Cat]

Let me type GG's question slowly, so you can follow along.

 

2006 was DJ's first year in Buffalo. He had direct input into exactly how he wanted to set about fixing the "mess" that Donahoe left behind.

 

GG is asking why the players aquired in 06 by Jauron are now be jettisoned in 09 by the current brain trust. For example, the reason given by many fans for the Byrd pick was that it "addressed a hole at FS" -- a hole that was filled with Ko Simpson and Donte Whitner, on the current roster, and top picks in the 06 draft.

 

In other words, if the Bills are now replacing Jauron's picks because they are "holes" then what evidence do you have that this time around it will be any different? How is it that Jauron never has any talent but gets direct input as to his players and replaces the players he was involved with picking up in the first place?

 

So besides Byrd over Ko and the replacements for Fowler/Royal, exactly who else are you referring to? At this point I understand fully what you're saying, but I think this particular case you're making is flimsy at best because I can't think of all these holes Jauron's made that he's now trying to fill.

[Cynical]

I did miss it the first time.

 

Probably I don't see any examples of "holes" created by the cuts in 2006 being put on hold until 2009 draft/FA.

 

You still did not answer the question. Here it is again:

 

... why did the 2009 draft address the holes created by the 2006 & 2007 additions?

 

He did NOT ask about cuts made in 2006, and placed on hold until now.

He was asking about holes the were created from the cut players that were added during Jauron's tenure.

 

Here are some examples: Dockery, Fowler, Royal, Tripplett

 

Here are some potential players on the hot seat this offseason: Ellis, McCargo, Simpson, Youboty

[Sisyphean Bills]

So besides Byrd over Ko and the replacements for Fowler/Royal, exactly who else are you referring to? At this point I understand fully what you're saying, but I think this particular case you're making is flimsy at best because I can't think of all these holes Jauron's made that he's now trying to fill.

Byrd is but one example. Dockery? McCargo? IQ? Flush Royal? Backup QB? RBs with reefer madness? Ellison? Kelsay? A second WR?

[The Big Cat]

You still did not answer the question. Here it is again:

 

 

 

He did NOT ask about cuts made in 2006, and placed on hold until now.

He was asking about holes the were created from the cut players that were added during Jauron's tenure.

 

Here are some examples: Dockery, Fowler, Royal, Tripplett

 

Here are some potential players on the hot seat this offseason: Ellis, McCargo, Simpson, Youboty

 

Yeah, what's your point? 4 players cut and replaced in 4 years? Do you expect EVERY off season acquisition to work out? Does any team?

 

I already said that Dockery was far and away the biggest failure so far. So what? No one's saying Jauron's an infallible personnel guy. Good thing we're not competing in a league against teams run by personnel guys who are.

 

If there's a point to be made, you guys should just make it. It's looking more and more like said point is irrelevant and/or non-existent. Please prove to me otherwise.

[Flbillsfan#1]

And you've named three teams with a luxury not afforded to the Bills (or any team coached by Jauro): savvy QB play.

 

It remains to be seen whether the Dolphins are "doing it right now." In fact, I'm expecting a significant drop off in this upcoming year.

 

But, the other three teams you mentioned are/were successful because they succeeded at something 99% of teams fail to do: draft a franchise quarterback.

 

quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback

quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback

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quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback

quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback

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quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback quarterback

 

I'll quote myself:

 

 

And, the answer to your question about "what DOES make him a good coach" can be found in the very first post of this thread. I don't see "good coaching" on Sundays. But I see some pretty bad plays by our players which directly cost us games (3 out of the last 4 possessions in the first MIA game ended in turnover (one inside the redzone), three first quarter picks against CLE, 2 missed chip shots against SF, and the epic Losman Jets debacle.) I was at the SF game, we had receivers wide open down field all day, and Trent didn't throw them the ball. But that's somehow Jauron's fault.

 

That's what I see the players doing, and that's what I see us costing us games.

 

I don't see the coach coaching. None of us do. Because 90% of his coaching doesn't take place on Sundays. So, we'll have to go with what the insiders say, and TO A MAN, they rave about what a great guy he is, how noble, trustworthy, and respectful he is, and that's what makes a good coach. That kind of person CANNOT f-ck it up for a talented team.

I take it you are not a fan of Trent.

[The Big Cat]

Byrd is but one example. Dockery? McCargo? IQ? Flush Royal? Backup QB? RBs with reefer madness? Ellison? Kelsay? A second WR?

 

Dockery = biggest FA failure of Jauron era

McCargo = biggest draft failure of Jauron era

 

Nobody (well, may be Polian) is perfect when it comes to this stuff.

 

Name for me better options than Royal/the backup QB's to date that Jauron failed to bring to Buffalo.

 

Ellison = a 6th round pick, if anything he's EXCEEDED his value.

 

As of March 7, 2009, the second WR is no longer an issue.

 

And what about Kelsay? If you operate under the assumption that most TSW'ers have adopted and believe that Kelsay's about as valuable as a downie, then this will be tough to argue. Truth is, he's better than your average downie, he's actually quite serviceable in run defense, he just brings nothing to the pass rush.

[The Big Cat]

I take it you are not a fan of Trent.

 

His stock plummeted when I finally got to see him play in person last year and I watched all the so-called "conservative, to the vest, play not to lose play calling" that was "holding him/the team back."

[Cynical]

I don't see the coach coaching. None of us do. Because 90% of his coaching doesn't take place on Sundays. So, we'll have to go with what the insiders say, and TO A MAN, they rave about what a great guy he is, how noble, trustworthy, and respectful he is, and that's what makes a good coach. That kind of person CANNOT f-ck it up for a talented team.

 

Interesting.

Not one mention of game planning.

Not one mention of adjustments.

Not one mention of team focus.

Not one mention of motivation.

 

Not one mention of being prepared.

Oh, wait. We did hear one of those. After the Cleveland game, Trent did say something along the lines of not being prepared for what he saw. Obviously, that's a player problem.

[Heels20X6]

Yeah, what's your point? 4 players cut and replaced in 4 years? Do you expect EVERY off season acquisition to work out? Does any team?

 

I already said that Dockery was far and away the biggest failure so far. So what? No one's saying Jauron's an infallible personnel guy. Good thing we're not competing in a league against teams run by personnel guys who are.

 

If there's a point to be made, you guys should just make it. It's looking more and more like said point is irrelevant and/or non-existent. Please prove to me otherwise.

 

 

Please change your screen name from "The Big Cat" to the "The Big Jauron Apologist". In all my time on this board, I have never seen someone so weakly argue a point.

 

GG has cornered you with his argument. Jauron's inability to build a roster over THREE YEARS is why this year's draft is finally addressing his self-inflicted wounds. GAME. SET. MATCH.

 

You and your "gushing" source (Mrs. Jauron) can both go to he!!. I'm going to take the word of a friend who actually played for the loser and couldn't stop gushing about what a difference in attitude the team experienced when they jettisoned his sorry @ss to Detroit and brought in a REAL coach with a WINNING attitude.

 

It's loser attitudes like yours and the non-stop excuses you make that have permeated the players in the Bills' locker room to make this team as vanilla as vanilla can get.

[The Big Cat]

Please change your screen name from "The Big Cat" to the "The Big Jauron Apologist". In all my time on this board, I have never seen someone so weakly argue a point.

 

GG has cornered you with his argument. Jauron's inability to build a roster over THREE YEARS is why this year's draft is finally addressing his self-inflicted wounds. GAME. SET. MATCH.

 

You and your "gushing" source (Mrs. Jauron) can both go to he!!. I'm going to take the word of a friend who actually played for the loser and couldn't stop gushing about what a difference in attitude the team experienced when they jettisoned his sorry @ss to Detroit and brought in a REAL coach with a WINNING attitude.

 

It's loser attitudes like yours and the non-stop excuses you make that have permeated the players in the Bills' locker room to make this team as vanilla as vanilla can get.

 

Well, the argument that he's been unable to build a roster in three years was initially addressed when I said NOBODY can build a roster in three years- especially one that's bloated with young, unproven talent.

[Cynical]

Yeah, what's your point? 4 players cut and replaced in 4 years? Do you expect EVERY off season acquisition to work out? Does any team?

 

I already said that Dockery was far and away the biggest failure so far. So what? No one's saying Jauron's an infallible personnel guy. Good thing we're not competing in a league against teams run by personnel guys who are.

 

If there's a point to be made, you guys should just make it. It's looking more and more like said point is irrelevant and/or non-existent. Please prove to me otherwise.

 

The point is simple as the one you keep trying to push: talent.

 

You keep harping how Jauron had no talent to work with. You state the previous regime roster had to be blown up, yet you still fail to state WHY. You only defense was because the FO said they would.

 

Yet, Jauron has replace "talent" he has acquired. Then you defend that position by saying nobody is perfect.

 

Funny, how does other coaches in this league deal with the exact same problems Jauron has had to face, yet they are able to achieve better results?

[The Big Cat]

Interesting.

Not one mention of game planning.

Not one mention of adjustments.

Not one mention of team focus. residual benefits of Jauron's traits, take a look at our "focus" penalty stats since 2006

Not one mention of motivation. residual benefits of Jauron's traits

 

Not one mention of being prepared. already used, "game planning"

Oh, wait. We did hear one of those. After the Cleveland game, Trent did say something along the lines of not being prepared for what he saw. Obviously, that's a player problem.

 

Yeah, Trent being unprepared caused him to throw interceptions to end Buffalo's first three possessions. Yep. Okay.

[Heels20X6]

Well, the argument that he's been unable to build a roster in three years was initially addressed when I said NOBODY can build a roster in three years- especially one that's bloated with young, unproven talent.

 

And that argument was BLOWN AWAY by the fact that teams such as Atlanta and Miami have done it in LESS than 3 years. And those are just examples in the LAST YEAR. If one took the time to look over even the last 10 years, you'd have countless of examples of teams able to turn their fortunes around in less than 3 years. But you're oblivious to those examples aren't you?

 

Care to explain how Atlanta and Miami did it and Dick and his boys can't?

[The Big Cat]

And that argument was BLOWN AWAY by the fact that teams such as Atlanta and Miami have done it in LESS than 3 years. And those are just examples in the LAST YEAR. If one took the time to look over even the last 10 years, you'd have countless of examples of teams able to turn their fortunes around in less than 3 years. But you're oblivious to those examples aren't you?

 

Care to explain how Atlanta and Miami did it and Dick and his boys can't?

 

I already did.

 

and no, there aren't "countless example." That's something you made up. There are a lot of teams that have a sudden spike, then settle back into mediocrity. Is that what you want?