Is Philly looking to trade up with KC for OT Eugene Monroe?

[Tipster19]

Between lacking picks and traditionally trading out, KC's GM Scott Pioli had some prospects come in that are projected to go late 1st/early 2nd rd. The problem is that they don't have a 2nd rd pick, they traded it for Cassel. Especially interesting is that LB/TE Connor Barwin is one of those prospects and Mike Vrabel, who is a Chief, would be a perfect mentor for him. Thinking about it I would like to see the Bills take Barwin, or someone like him, and use him in a dual capacity.

 

Back to the potential trade up for the Eagles. Why would they schedule a visit for OL Eugene Monroe, who is safely a top 10 pick? More importantly, why is Pioli confident that they'll have the necessary picks for players like Barwin and Ohio St LB James Laurinaitis? Hmm, interesting, very interesting.

 

BTW, I heard Jim Miller today on Sirius radio say that DT Glenn Dorsey is no way a NT and won't be able to be a DE in Pioli's new 3-4 defensive alignment. He went on to say that he fully expects him to be traded during this year's draft. He mentioned Atlanta as a possible candidate. I, of course, started getting my wheels turning on the idea of the Bills working something out for him. Now that I know that they don't have a 2nd rder this year, I wonder if they would take a 2nd rder in this year's draft and next year's 2nd rder for him. I just don't know if Pioli would trade with us due to the Bills being in his buddy's (Belichick) division but Atlanta would be a perfect trade partner for him though, they aren't even in the same conference.

 

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1121758.html

 

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/2009...sit_Eagles.html

[Max997]

so you think the Chiefs would take 2 seconds for a guy they drafted what, number 5 last year....are you kidding me

 

the one thing you should have learned being a Bills fan is never pay attention to who teams bring in

[Tipster19]

so you think the Chiefs would take 2 seconds for a guy they drafted what, number 5 last year....are you kidding me

 

the one thing you should have learned being a Bills fan is never pay attention to who teams bring in

He was drafted 5th overall from another administration to play in a whole different scheme. What do you think that they would get if they were to trade him? A 1st rder? Maybe but offering two 2nd rders isn't far off the mark, if at all.

[H2o]

The cost would be too steep to move up with KC. I think the Eagles are smarter than that and just doing their due dilligence in bringing in 40 guys for visits. Teams leak all kinds of false info to throw out smoke screens every year. It's to be expected.

[Tipster19]

so you think the Chiefs would take 2 seconds for a guy they drafted what, number 5 last year....are you kidding me

 

the one thing you should have learned being a Bills fan is never pay attention to who teams bring in

Well, I see that you corrected your post. Originally you said that the Chiefs drafted Dorsey #2 overall but now you realized that he was actually drafted 5th overall. Way to shoot from the hip.

[Tipster19]

The cost would be too steep to move up with KC. I think the Eagles are smarter than that and just doing their due dilligence in bringing in 40 guys for visits. Teams leak all kinds of false info to throw out smoke screens every year. It's to be expected.

 

I don't think that it's too much of a smokescreen. It's very realistic that a trade like this goes down. The Eagles are rumored to be in the market for a OT and KC needs more draft picks and are interviewing prospects that are projected to go late 1st/early 2nd rd.

[Max997]

Well, I see that you corrected your post. Originally you said that the Chiefs drafted Dorsey #2 overall but now you realized that he was actually drafted 5th overall. Way to shoot from the hip.

 

you quoted my post twice and both say they drafted him 5th....and is there a point here...2nd or 5th doesnt matter, thinking 2 seconds gets it done is still stupid

 

and just because he was drafted by a different front office doesnt mean they will trade him for less then they think he is worth...the new front office didnt draft Cutler, what did they get for him

[Tipster19]

you quoted my post twice and both say they drafted him 5th....and is there a point here...2nd or 5th doesnt matter, thinking 2 seconds gets it done is still stupid...just because he was drafted by a different person doesnt mean they will just give him away...the new front office didnt draft Cutler, did they just give him away

 

You know that you said that he was drafted #2 overall, you changed it while I was responding to your inaccuracy.

[Max997]

You know that you said that he was drafted #2 overall, you changed it while I was responding to your inaccuracy.

 

and your point is what? its called a typo

 

i guess since he was drafted 5th it makes your offer of 2 seconds so much more reasonable

[H2o]

Dorsey would be too much of a cap hit to offload this year. His deal has $22 million in gaurantees and he's only played 1 year of a 7 year deal. That likely leaves him with $15-18 million or so in money that would count against their cap if they were to move him. I don't see it happening.

[Max997]

Dorsey would be too much of a cap hit to offload this year. His deal has $22 million in gaurantees and he's only played 1 year of a 7 year deal. That likely leaves him with $15-18 million or so in money that would count against their cap if they were to move him. I don't see it happening.

 

and definately not happening for 2 second round draft choices

[Tipster19]

and definately not happening for 2 second round draft choices

 

Ok, you keep harping that it two 2nd rders won't do it but you still didn't answer the question of what would. Do you want to suggest what would be fair?

[Max997]

Ok, you keep harping that it two 2nd rders won't do it but you still didn't answer the question of what would. Do you want to suggest what would be fair?

 

there is no fair deal because you wont see a team trade a high pick like that after just one year due to the tremendous cap hit they would take

 

when thinking of fantasy trades like this ask yourself, would you do it if you were the other team? Im sure if the Bills just drafted Dorsey 5th overall and it was suggested to trade him for 2 seconds you would think that was crazy

[Tipster19]

there is no fair deal because you wont see a team trade a high pick like that due to the tremendous cap hit they would take

 

whewn thinking of fantasy trades like this ask yourself, would you do it if you were the other team? Im sure if the Bills just drafted Dorsey 5th overall and it was suggested to trade him for 2 seconds you would think that was crazy

 

Switching defensive schemes and not having the proper personnel to run it changes the complexion of it. So I'll ask again, what would be fair compensation for him? Keep in mind that Jim Miller thinks that he'll be traded during the upcoming draft. If he is accurate, what will it take?

[Estro]

Getting back to the Philly going after Monroe discussion............

 

If that is the case they would have to part with both of their 1st round picks plus more to get into the 3-8 range (to get Monroe). Perhaps the fall back plan would be to just give up both 1st round picks for Jason Peters. I agree I'd rather have an effective, motivated, dominating (see the '07-'08 season) Jason Peters than two 1st round picks, but I don't know if that is possible anymore. Last year his play dropped off dramatically and I'm getting entirely sick of his crap like that majority of the rest of you.

 

If somehow the Bills were able to finagle those 2 picks from the Eagles I would pull off the deal. Peters has gone about his situation entirely the wrong way. If he had just shown up to work, played his butt off and shown his commitment to the team, he would've been paid like he wants to. Instead he showed his true colors and I'd be extremely worried about Peters motivation once he gets his huge new contract. If his plan is to do the same exact thing he did last off-season the Bills have to get some value for him in the draft this year. As much as I'd like to see the Bills tell Peters they have him for the next 2-3 years and stick it to him they need to do what's best for the team........And having a malcontent, unmotivated, out-of-shape LT for weeks 12-17 WILL not help this team.

 

My final point is this - players trade value only last so long. Look at the reports that the Redskins were willing to give up two 1st round picks for Chad Johnson last year. This year the Bengals would more than likely be satisfied with a 2nd and 3rd rounder for Johnson (and that's an optimistic view). What I'm getting at is if we carry Peters for another year and he pulls the same crap and his play slips further his trade value will slip even further. He would also be another year closer to Free agency, which also seems to work against players in terms of trade value. If Tim Graham's reports are accurate, that the Bills could snatch a 1st and 3rd rounder for him, you have to strongly consider that option (although I would love to get both of those 1st rounders, or the compromise being a 1st and 2nd rounder.)

[Estro]

Switching defensive schemes and not having the proper personnel to run it changes the complexion of it. So I'll ask again, what would be fair compensation for him? Keep in mind that Jim Miller thinks that he'll be traded during the upcoming draft. If he is accurate, what will it take?

 

 

 

My guess would be that if KC does indeed feel that he does not fit into what they are looking to do, he could be had for a 1st (no lower than 16ish) and a 3rd rounder. KC would obviously lose some value because other teams would know that he doesn't fit KC's defense at all. However, if a couple teams started bidding with one another they could get a lot more. You have to figure any team that seriously considered taking him in the top 10 last year would be more than happy to give up at least a 1st and 3rd this year.

 

Best case: Mid round 1st (12-18) and a 2010 1st round pick. To a team that absolutely wants him and is bidding against another team.

 

Worst case: Mid round 1st (no later than 16) and a 3rd round pick.

 

 

I don't think your two 2nd rounders is too far off the mark, given a worst case scenario for the Chiefs. And obviously I'm not trying to look like an NFL GM, just fun speculation, that's all.

[Tipster19]

Getting back to the Philly going after Monroe discussion............

 

If that is the case they would have to part with both of their 1st round picks plus more to get into the 3-8 range (to get Monroe). Perhaps the fall back plan would be to just give up both 1st round picks for Jason Peters. I agree I'd rather have an effective, motivated, dominating (see the '07-'08 season) Jason Peters than two 1st round picks, but I don't know if that is possible anymore. Last year his play dropped off dramatically and I'm getting entirely sick of his crap like that majority of the rest of you.

 

If somehow the Bills were able to finagle those 2 picks from the Eagles I would pull off the deal. Peters has gone about his situation entirely the wrong way. If he had just shown up to work, played his butt off and shown his commitment to the team, he would've been paid like he wants to. Instead he showed his true colors and I'd be extremely worried about Peters motivation once he gets his huge new contract. If his plan is to do the same exact thing he did last off-season the Bills have to get some value for him in the draft this year. As much as I'd like to see the Bills tell Peters they have him for the next 2-3 years and stick it to him they need to do what's best for the team........And having a malcontent, unmotivated, out-of-shape LT for weeks 12-17 WILL not help this team.

 

My final point is this - players trade value only last so long. Look at the reports that the Redskins were willing to give up two 1st round picks for Chad Johnson last year. This year the Bengals would more than likely be satisfied with a 2nd and 3rd rounder for Johnson (and that's an optimistic view). What I'm getting at is if we carry Peters for another year and he pulls the same crap and his play slips further his trade value will slip even further. He would also be another year closer to Free agency, which also seems to work against players in terms of trade value. If Tim Graham's reports are accurate, that the Bills could snatch a 1st and 3rd rounder for him, you really have to strongly consider that option (although I would love to get both of those 1st rounders, or the compromise being a 1st and 2nd rounder.)

 

I have to tend to agree with you on this whole Peters' situation. Here's the Eagle's picks for the upcoming draft.

 

Round 1, Pick 21 (21)

Round 1, Pick 28 (28) (From Carolina)

Round 2, Pick 21 (53)

Round 3, Pick 21 (85)

Round 4, Pick 21 (121)

Round 5, Pick 5 (141) (From Cleveland)

Round 5, Pick 17 (153) (From New York Jets)

Round 5, Pick 21 (157)

Round 5, Pick 23 (159) (From New England)

Round 6, Pick 21 (194)

Round 6, Pick 22 (195) (From Minnesota)

Round 7, Pick 21 (230)

 

If we were to make a trade for with Philly then this is what I would like to see happen. Either they trade their #21 (1st rd) and #85 (3rd rd) or the #28 (1st rd) and #53 (2nd rd) for Peters. The compensation value is close to being the same but by the value chart scenario #2 is a little more costly for them so they might be willing to do scenario #1 more, which would be better for us because then we would have a much better chance of securing TE Brandon Pettigrew. Both scenarios equates to somewheres between the 15th-17th pick in the draft. That's pretty fair for Peters' value.

[Tipster19]

And obviously I'm not trying to look like an NFL GM, just fun speculation, that's all.

 

Me too.

 

If the two 2nd rders weren't enough then I wouldn't want Buffalo to pay much more. We have other important needs and our 1st rder at #11 is much too valuable to us and for him. If we made a trade with Peters and part of it was that we got a late 1st rder for him then that would be the most that I would like to see Buffalo part with for him.

[Estro]

I actually think a 1st round pick in the range of (15-17) isn't quite enough for Jason Peters. Teams will be drafting at least 2, but more than likely 3 or 4 offensive tackles in the top 15 picks of this years draft (Jason Smith, Eugene Monroe, Andre Smith and Michael Oher). I think most of those teams would be more than happy to have a player with the ability of a "motivated and in shape" Jason Peters.

 

At the very least I'd like to see the Bills come away with Philly's #21 1st round pick as well as the second round pick. The Eagles should have to pay a premium for getting a LT that they know will not fall flat on his face (see Mike Williams). I wouldn't say I'd be pissed if they got #28 and a 2nd rounder, but IMO he is worth more than that.

[Tipster19]

I actually think a 1st round pick in the range of (15-17) isn't quite enough for Jason Peters. Teams will be drafting at least 2, but more than likely 3 or 4 offensive tackles in the top 15 picks of this years draft (Jason Smith, Eugene Monroe, Andre Smith and Michael Oher). I think most of those teams would be more than happy to have a player with the ability of a "motivated and in shape" Jason Peters.

 

At the very least I'd like to see the Bills come away with Philly's #21 1st round pick as well as the second round pick. The Eagles should have to pay a premium for getting a LT that they know will not fall flat on his face (see Mike Williams). I wouldn't say I'd be pissed if they got #28 and a 2nd rounder, but IMO he is worth more than that.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE for us to get the #21 and #53 picks for Peters but Philly is frugal and I think getting them to pay that would be pretty hard to do. I don't think that you're wrong though, Peters should be worth a #8-#12 pick based on his talent and potential as a LT.