LGB Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Could it just be possible that that you really do get what you pay for? The Bills have like the lowest ticket prices in the NFL (that probably equates to being able to put enough money together to buy a Ford Fiesta to go up against Ferrari). It is clear that the Bills have done the math and have determined what the market in Buffalo will bear. So rather than go out and pursue a proven GM and coach, the math at OBD says that enough Bills fans will show up to cover the costs of Jauron and company to make x dollar amount to try to keep pace with the rest of the NFL ownership revenue. Would Bills fans and RW pay more for a better product? It really looks like this year, Bills season ticket sales will decline, while newer stadiums are being built across the league and new stadium fees are being introduced that allow fans the "right" to buy season tickets. Can the Bills keep pace? If the Bills had a better GM/coach/team than the Argonauts, maybe that would result in the ability to sell more seats? The same sorry staff of poor decision makers seems to be status quo. If RW was really committed to winning, would he take more of his own money to hire some quality leadership or is he just stuck to the OBD business model until the moving vans arrive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmet_hair Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I'd pay double to win!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 What makes you think raising ticket prices will make this team play better? I mean that excuse kinda goes out the window when Ralph got 78 million dollars for playing in Toronto.......Where was that money put to use? Nowhere is where! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavarreFL_Bills_Fan Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 The Bills organization also gets money from revenue sharing, and the NFL for TV advertising rights. Also, the Bills could sell naming rights....all of this does not require a raise in ticket prices The biggest problem is outside of WNY, not many people care about the Bills because they sell a poor product. Take me for example, I'm from the south, but I became a fan in the early 90's. They were on TV all the time, and were fun to watch. Not anymore. I pay for the NFL Sunday ticket, buy merchandise, and make a couple of trips to the game every now and then. The ONLY thing keeping them alive is the fact that Western New Yorkers are dedicated people, willing to keep showing up to the games despite the relative price of the tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelso_Helmet Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I'd pay double to win!!! I for one would find it refreshing if Ralph said, "Ok, folks. Here's the deal. We all want to win, but I wanna make a nice profit too. So if you want the Bills to stay in WNY and you want a better team, this is what we're gonna do. I'm gonna raise ticket prices so I can be more aggressive in paying for talent via FA or trades. But rest assured, I want to win and will demonstrate that by bringing in talent. " That would give an indication that he thinks the team can with Dickie J at the helm and serve notice to available players that the franchise genuinely cares about winning. Because even if you lay out lucrative FA offers now, the guys that would take it to come to Buffalo and join this circus will be guys for whom the desire to win is far outweighed by opportunity to get cash. Of course, it is hard for Ralph to have any credibility after bringing Jauron back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 It's a very old formula. Wins = you can raise prices. People don't want to pay for garbage, so if you put garbage on the field you have to cut prices to get people to show up. Put a winner on the field, however, and suddenly people aren't so worried about getting a good deal. During the 90s there was 80,000 plus week after week. Back then the ticket prices weren't so ridiculously low in comparison to the rest of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I'm not a STH or resident of WNY, but if I were I'd be pretty leery about giving RW more money so he can continue to cry poormouth and be miserly with the positions that are really important - the front office guys, all while RW is increasing his family's inheritance. If Ralph said "I'm going to raise ticket prices but that will let us bring in a Cowher/Pioli combo or something like that, then I'd be much more likely to agree to that. I might even go in with my brother on his ST package in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp on da' net Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Could it just be possible that that you really do get what you pay for? The Bills have like the lowest ticket prices in the NFL (that probably equates to being able to put enough money together to buy a Ford Fiesta to go up against Ferrari). It is clear that the Bills have done the math and have determined what the market in Buffalo will bear. So rather than go out and pursue a proven GM and coach, the math at OBD says that enough Bills fans will show up to cover the costs of Jauron and company to make x dollar amount to try to keep pace with the rest of the NFL ownership revenue. Would Bills fans and RW pay more for a better product? It really looks like this year, Bills season ticket sales will decline, while newer stadiums are being built across the league and new stadium fees are being introduced that allow fans the "right" to buy season tickets. Can the Bills keep pace? If the Bills had a better GM/coach/team than the Argonauts, maybe that would result in the ability to sell more seats? The same sorry staff of poor decision makers seems to be status quo. If RW was really committed to winning, would he take more of his own money to hire some quality leadership or is he just stuck to the OBD business model until the moving vans arrive? IMO i think RW wants to win here but i think he's intiminated by strong-minded football guys (ie. Saban, Knox and Polian). Just check the history, beside their losing record the more passive the coach (Gregg W. the exception) RW likes being the dominant figure...just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGB Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 If Ralph said "I'm going to raise ticket prices but that will let us bring in a Cowher/Pioli combo or something like that, then I'd be much more likely to agree to that. I might even go in with my brother on his ST package in that case. That is a big "if", but could it work in the OBD/WNY environment? Would RW or whoever buys the Bills be able to install something like that? It could be that the "Buffalo" in Buffalo Bills is short-lived without a new stadium and pricing structure that is evident in today's NFL. Sure Jim Kelly might be able to put together a group of investors that might be able to out-bid some other group from out of town, but if the Bills stay in western NY, will we be able to complete with the Jerry Jones of the world and the sky-rocketing NFL and pro sport ticket prices? Look what is happening right now with the Yankees. Last season, tickets behind the Yankee's dugout cost about $150 per game. This season, because it was the last season at the old Yankee Stadium, the cost went up to $250. Next season, the same seats in the new Yankee Stadium, go up to $850 per seat. Not only that, but it looks like you have to sign a minimum four-year contract and the Yankees want a third of the cost of the first year up front. The same type of thing is happening to the Dallas Cowboys. Sure, it is supply and demand, but it is doubtful that the Yankees/Cowboys model would ever succeed in the WNY economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Could it just be possible that that you really do get what you pay for? The Bills have like the lowest ticket prices in the NFL (that probably equates to being able to put enough money together to buy a Ford Fiesta to go up against Ferrari). It is clear that the Bills have done the math and have determined what the market in Buffalo will bear. So rather than go out and pursue a proven GM and coach, the math at OBD says that enough Bills fans will show up to cover the costs of Jauron and company to make x dollar amount to try to keep pace with the rest of the NFL ownership revenue. Would Bills fans and RW pay more for a better product? It really looks like this year, Bills season ticket sales will decline, while newer stadiums are being built across the league and new stadium fees are being introduced that allow fans the "right" to buy season tickets. Can the Bills keep pace? If the Bills had a better GM/coach/team than the Argonauts, maybe that would result in the ability to sell more seats? The same sorry staff of poor decision makers seems to be status quo. If RW was really committed to winning, would he take more of his own money to hire some quality leadership or is he just stuck to the OBD business model until the moving vans arrive? The analysis does not hold entirely true. The Cowboys are a money printing machine and they are not much better than the Bills. What is required is an owner, a front office and a GM working for the same purpose. The dollars that are spent on coaching and scouting must be spent wisely. My belief is that in Buffalo there is not a willingness to take a hard look at staff - both players and coaches. I believe everyone is too chummy. Nobody plays or coaches like their living depends on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Everyone says they would, but I highly doubt it. wasn't it last year people were crying cause of an increase in the parking cost at the stadium? The were still the cheapest price for parking in the league. You have to also take into account that the price for things behind the scenes go up too because of inflation. The cost to put on a football game goes up, along with the cost of payers salaries. Would fans in buffalo be able to support, on a continuous basis, a large jump in ticket prices to a competitive level ofthe rest of the league for an on going basis? Would they only support them at these costs during a down year too? Thats the problem, it has to be on a continuous basis, they have to be willing to spend that money in down years too, and no matter what the economy is like. As for stuff like the TO deal, and the naming rights. They didn't just hand over $78 million in a single cheque, its most likely a payment made over the length of the deal, and it only works out to just under $10 mil I believe. Thats enough to cover a decent players signing bonus, and would not include the players salary. The naming rights would be from anywhere around $3-5 mil a year I believe too, figuring since Buffalo is not the biggest draw, it would probably be closer to the $3 mil area. Thats not much. Its something, like maybe 1 players salary, but its not going to turn the team around. They need bigger things then that to turn the financial woes around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGB Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 The analysis does not hold entirely true. The Cowboys are a money printing machine and they are not much better than the Bills. What is required is an owner, a front office and a GM working for the same purpose. The dollars that are spent on coaching and scouting must be spent wisely. My belief is that in Buffalo there is not a willingness to take a hard look at staff - both players and coaches. I believe everyone is too chummy. Nobody plays or coaches like their living depends on it. Agreed, but going forward, it appears that the Cowboys will at least have the money part of the equation solved. Not that it solves everything, but it sure helps in establishing a playoff contender and keeping the team from packing up and leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 If higher ticket prices directly lead to a winning record and playoffs then I'm all for it. Hell, I'd even pay double! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLeonard Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 You guys want to know WHY the Bills tickets are the cheapest? It has nothing to do with the fans "not being able to afford it." http://www.erie.gov/billslease/index.phtml This is the Erie County/Buffalo Bills lease. By scrolling to the bottom, you will find a link to the Stadium Lease. Scroll down to "Article 3: Rent" You will find the following: 3.1 Rent. On or before March 31st of each Lease Year, the Bills shall pay to the ECSC, as rent for the Stadium Complex, fifty percent (50%) of the amount by which Net Ticket Revenue exceeds NFL Average Net Ticket Revenue for the NFL Season concluded on or about February 1st of such Lease Year. Such rent shall be paid to the ECSC without notice or demand and without abatement, deduction or set-off in lawful money of the United States of America at the ECSC's Address and shall be accompanied by a certification, in form and content satisfactory to the ECSC, from an independent nationally recognized certified public accounting firm reasonably acceptable to the ECSC, setting forth the calculations used by the Bills in determining such rental payment. Translated, this means that, if the Bills' ticket revenue is higher than the LEAGUE AVERAGE ticket revenue, they owe the city 50% of the difference. Having the lowest ticket prices in the NFL isn't Ralph's way of being nice, or thinking that the citizens of WNY can't afford higher prices. While it's nice to say "Hey, we have the cheapest tickets in the NFL," by doing this, the Bills guarantee that they will not come close to hitting the league average, let alone go over it, thus owing the county money. Basically, by having low ticket prices, he never hits or exceeds the league average, meaning he gets to use the stadium rent free. It's just another way for Ralph to pocket as much money as he can, while spending as little as he can. -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huuuge Bills Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 You guys want to know WHY the Bills tickets are the cheapest? It has nothing to do with the fans "not being able to afford it." http://www.erie.gov/billslease/index.phtml This is the Erie County/Buffalo Bills lease. By scrolling to the bottom, you will find a link to the Stadium Lease. Scroll down to "Article 3: Rent" You will find the following: Translated, this means that, if the Bills' ticket revenue is higher than the LEAGUE AVERAGE ticket revenue, they owe the city 50% of the difference. Having the lowest ticket prices in the NFL isn't Ralph's way of being nice, or thinking that the citizens of WNY can't afford higher prices. While it's nice to say "Hey, we have the cheapest tickets in the NFL," by doing this, the Bills guarantee that they will not come close to hitting the league average, let alone go over it, thus owing the county money. Basically, by having low ticket prices, he never hits or exceeds the league average, meaning he gets to use the stadium rent free. It's just another way for Ralph to pocket as much money as he can, while spending as little as he can. -Bill Wow, didn't know that. Nice post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLeonard Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Wow, didn't know that. Nice post. Lot of interesting info in that lease... Like Jeffrey Littman's phone number. -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I told my season ticket rep this year that the Bills could and should jack their prices at least $15-$20 per ticket across the board. A 16th row ticket on the 40 behind the Bills bench should cost more than $70 for a season ticket holder, sorry. I sat there for the MNF game (not my seats) and they should be $100 minimum. I'd would have paid it for my 300-level seats (I'm done as long as DJ is the coach). If the Sabres can get what they do for one out of 82 games, the Bils should see they can as well. Ralph likes to think, and state as he did in a Toronto presser, that we're economically poor as a region, but this is one thing peophe can and will pay for. We don't HAVE to have the cheapest or second cheapest seats in the league, the Bills just choose that to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLeonard Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I told my season ticket rep this year that the Bills could and should jack their prices at least $15-$20 per ticket across the board. A 16th row ticket on the 40 behind the Bills bench should cost more than $70 for a season ticket holder, sorry. I sat there for the MNF game (not my seats) and they should be $100 minimum. I'd would have paid it for my 300-level seats (I'm done as long as DJ is the coach). If the Sabres can get what they do for one out of 82 games, the Bils should see they can as well. Ralph likes to think, and state as he did in a Toronto presser, that we're economically poor as a region, but this is one thing peophe can and will pay for. We don't HAVE to have the cheapest or second cheapest seats in the league, the Bills just choose that to be the case. He raises prices and other teams don't, he gets closer to having to start paying rent at RWS... A lot of people most likley don't know that. He wants it to the point where he's making just enough to avoid paying the rent. That way, he keeps everything and pays out nothing. What he tells you (the fan) is that he's keeping prices lower, so more can attend... But then, he turns around and bitches about not being able to compete. The man is in it to get every dime, without having to pay anything. Sorry, no more of my cash for Ralph. No more jerseys, hats, etc, until division championship hats and shirts go on sale. Broncos owner Pat Bowlen is eating over $20 million to can Shanahan... I'll bet Jauron's new contract doesn't cost half of that. You're being figured out quicker and quicker by the masses, old man. Time to hold up your end of the bargain. -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGB Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Wow, didn't know that. Nice post. Didn't know that either...just reaffirms that it is all about the math (making money first - winning is secondary...see Jauron...status quo etc). It looks like the lease is up in 2013 (but could probably be broken at any time). More than likely, there will be a change in the next four years: new ownership...maybe a new location probably with a new stadium. Seems like OBD is just treading water until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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