New Article on TW/Lin (WIVB) Dispute

[The Dean]

The old threads on this were pretty stale, and buried, so I thought I'd start a fresh thread. If a mod wants to merge this into one of those, no problem on my end.

 

From Variety.

 

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111799463...d=2522&cs=1

 

Dunno if it has all the facts, but they do understand the business more than many other publications. Here's what they say the two sides are asking for:

 

Lin is said to be seeking 25¢-30¢ per month per Time Warner Cable subscriber in the 11 markets. Time Warner doesn't want to pay anything, arguing that viewers can tune in those stations for free using analog or digital rabbit ears. (The sides say they have been negotiating nonstop since Lin yanked its stations on Oct. 3.)

 

Now, as most of you know, I have a background in this area (as do at least a couple of other TBDers). So, I'm not simply blowing smoke. But, don't assume that my opinion is correct, because it is my opinion...but it comes from some experience in this area. Assuming the info in the article is true:

 

A penny a day, for the right to carry WIVB is probably slightly too high of a price to pay, for the cable system (and, ultimately the subscriber). However, the offer of NOTHING is obscene. Trust me, if this was ever forced to arbitration, TW would lose. I have no doubt about that. From my experience 10-15 cents, per sub, per month, would be a decent number for both sides. Now, some things have changed since I left the biz, and I wouldn't be surprised if some stations are getting a quarter, or more. But, since that is the price Lin is asking for, I'm guessing 15 cents, or so, is where they expect to settle.

 

If you want to know what GIANT BALLS are, according to the article, "Univision has caught the broadcasting biz's attention by floating the notion it will seek a $1-per-subscriber fee in its retrans deals, given the overwhelming share of the Spanish media market the network commands." Mingia!

 

I also think that offering ZERO is insulting, and takes not only balls, but no concern for the subscribers, whatsoever. Remember, this is a cable system that pays good money (far more than a quarter a month) to networks like Discovery Health, BET, Spike TV, ABC Family, truTV, Hallmark Channel...etc.

 

I have said it before, it takes idiots on both sides of this stalemate, to have a fiasco like this and BOTH sides deserve some blame. But, if TW is really offering nothing and hasn't budged, and you really have to have a bad guy or someone to blame...well they are it, IMO.

[Live&DieBillsFootball]

In the Buffalo area, TW couldn't have picked a worse time for this. FIOS is rolling out and signing up customers like mad. I called Directv today to sign up my mother and they were showing no installation dates available until late November.

 

I'm not sure who is right or wrong, but TW is losing a ton of customers in WNY.

[NicholasCal1]

The old threads on this were pretty stale, and buried, so I thought I'd start a fresh thread. If a mod wants to merge this into one of those, no problem on my end.

 

From Variety.

 

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111799463...d=2522&cs=1

 

Dunno if it has all the facts, but they do understand the business more than many other publications. Here's what they say the two sides are asking for:

 

 

 

Now, as most of you know, I have a background in this area (as do at least a couple of other TBDers). So, I'm not simply blowing smoke. But, don't assume that my opinion is correct, because it is my opinion...but it comes from some experience in this area. Assuming the info in the article is true:

 

A penny a day, for the right to carry WIVB is probably slightly too high of a price to pay, for the cable system (and, ultimately the subscriber). However, the offer of NOTHING is obscene. Trust me, if this was ever forced to arbitration, TW would lose. I have no doubt about that. From my experience 10-15 cents, per sub, per month, would be a decent number for both sides. Now, some things have changed since I left the biz, and I wouldn't be surprised if some stations are getting a quarter, or more. But, since that is the price Lin is asking for, I'm guessing 15 cents, or so, is where they expect to settle.

 

If you want to know what GIANT BALLS are, according to the article, "Univision has caught the broadcasting biz's attention by floating the notion it will seek a $1-per-subscriber fee in its retrans deals, given the overwhelming share of the Spanish media market the network commands." Mingia!

 

I also think that offering ZERO is insulting, and takes not only balls, but no concern for the subscribers, whatsoever. Remember, this is a cable system that pays good money (far more than a quarter a month) to networks like Discovery Health, BET, Spike TV, ABC Family, truTV, Hallmark Channel...etc.

 

I have said it before, it takes idiots on both sides of this stalemate, to have a fiasco like this and BOTH sides deserve some blame. But, if TW is really offering nothing and hasn't budged, and you really have to have a bad guy or someone to blame...well they are it, IMO.

well said

[THE GASH STATION]

After some frustration with a set of rabbitt ears I sent an email to TW:

 

To: buf.customer.contactus

Subject: BILLS GAMES AND CHANNEL 4 IN BUFFALO NEW YORK

 

 

I have been paying you over $160.00 per month for years and years.

The fact that I cannot watch yet another Buffalo Bills game angers me to no end.

 

Just wanted to let you know that if you do not reach an agreement by next week I will cancel.

 

Not even sure you care..but I have had it.

Fix it or lose my business....and fix it by next week as I will not come back to you if you restore the service in the future.

 

Now mind you, I wrote it and felt a little better..than watched a game through the static..

The win and a few wild turkeys made the static much better as you can imagine.

 

They replied on Monday:

 

We understand your concerns and frustration with current events and the impact they have had on you as a Time Warner Cable customer.

 

The issue with LIN Television Corporation has had a tremendous impact on our customers. We understand that the programming provided by WNLO and WIVB is very important to our customers.

 

We at Time Warner Cable value you our customers and the business you to bring to us. It is because of our commitment to our customers that we are continuing our negotiations with LIN to continue to provide WIVB and WNLO to our customers.

 

Negotiations with a company such as LIN are standard practice in our industry. The issue with LIN may only affect Time Warner Cable in the present, however it may affect other companies in the future. When companies like Dish Network, DirecTV, and Verizon have to re-negotiate their agreements LIN may also use the same tactics against them.

 

We can assure you that we are doing everything in our power to restore WIVB and WNLO to our lineup and are hopeful to have this issue resolved soon.

 

 

Thank you for your time,

 

 

 

Time Warner Cable Customer Care

 

 

Sounds like Dish, Fios are going to have to deal with some more of this in the future.....

 

For what its worth..I have to concur with the dean...25-30 cents is too high but zero is insulting.

[lets_go_bills]

Time Warner is so ridiculous. Up here in Canada I got StarChoice satellite. I get the NFL Network free! Love it.

[Lori]

Not to mention which, Channel 4 is NOT easily picked up via antenna in the Olean area (which has TWC) because of the distance and geography involved. You either get a dish, or you don't see the game -- even though it's well within the 75-mile blackout radius of the stadium.

 

Fortunately, we don't have TWC on this side of the state line. My mom and stepdad are coming down for the weekend, and staying to watch the Miami game before they drive back to Amherst.

[Tim Anderson's Lunch Pail]

Do you guys think that there is even as much as a one percent chance a deal gets done in time for Sunday's game? I have this brand new 52" LCD that is just sitting there. The reception doesn't come in perfectly clear like some people find.

[mead107]

Do you guys think that there is even as much as a one percent chance a deal gets done in time for Sunday's game? I have this brand new 52" LCD that is just sitting there. The reception doesn't come in perfectly clear like some people find.

I will give you a $100 for it .

[Hazed and Amuzed]

I will give you a $100 for it .

 

 

100 and 1 penny!

[Kgun5]

A very unsubstantiated source mentioned that TW is thinking of dropping locals all together, and will wait until the rebroadcast rights for 2 & 7 come up until they decide.

 

That would be kind of ironic for a company that has spent millions in past to hammer satellite carriers for not having locals, themselves.

[BarkLessWagMore]

A penny a day, for the right to carry WIVB is probably slightly too high of a price to pay, for the cable system (and, ultimately the subscriber). However, the offer of NOTHING is obscene. Trust me, if this was ever forced to arbitration, TW would lose. I have no doubt about that. From my experience 10-15 cents, per sub, per month, would be a decent number for both sides. Now, some things have changed since I left the biz, and I wouldn't be surprised if some stations are getting a quarter, or more. But, since that is the price Lin is asking for, I'm guessing 15 cents, or so, is where they expect to settle.

 

Dean -- thanks for a very informative post. Your position is based on market rates, I'm sure. So does that mean that other cable providers are paying per sub, per month charges for local, over the air stations around the country? Is DirectTV? Dish? This is a very interesting topic. For the record, I blame both sides as LIN took the aggressive position of yanking the signals during negotiations thinking, I'm sure, that the hue and cry from the great unwashed would force TWC to settle. Instead, CBS programming (at least for me) is becoming a distant memory. If it wasn't for the Bills games, I wouldn't care a lick about this dispute.

[drg2021]

Do you guys think that there is even as much as a one percent chance a deal gets done in time for Sunday's game? I have this brand new 52" LCD that is just sitting there. The reception doesn't come in perfectly clear like some people find.

You need to roll right on over to Best Buy and buy a dish.There not too difficult to install,however because of the Time Warner debacle installation by Directv is now in late Nov/Dec.Thank God i dumped Adelphia in the Rigas days of embezzling.

[cåblelady]

A very unsubstantiated source

I'd say.

[The Dean]

Dean -- thanks for a very informative post. Your position is based on market rates, I'm sure. So does that mean that other cable providers are paying per sub, per month charges for local, over the air stations around the country? Is DirectTV? Dish? This is a very interesting topic. For the record, I blame both sides as LIN took the aggressive position of yanking the signals during negotiations thinking, I'm sure, that the hue and cry from the great unwashed would force TWC to settle. Instead, CBS programming (at least for me) is becoming a distant memory. If it wasn't for the Bills games, I wouldn't care a lick about this dispute.

 

 

I'm not sure what you are asking, but I will give it a shot. I imagine Lin is getting in the neighborhood of 10 cents per subscriber under their old agreements with other cable operators in other cities. (I total guess, BTW, but that is ballpark for local network stations.) They could have very different arrangements in other markets if they own a local cable new channel, or something like that. In those cases, sometime they charge next to nothing for the net affil and a quarter, or something, for the new local cable news channel. There are a bunch of different kinds of deals around the country.

 

I'm don't have a lot of info on the rates local stations charge DTV/Dish and the like. Those deals seem to get made so fast, with very few issues, I was never really needed to supply info, go to the meeting, look at documents, etc. In fact, most of the cable deals are fairly easily made, too (or at least WERE, a few years ago). It usually comes down to one or two cable systems that want to play "hard ball". While I can't be certain that's what TW is doing here, but if they really are offering nothing, and (if Kgun's info is correct) if TW stonewalls channels 7 and 2, when their deals are up, "Hard Ball" may be too soft of a term for what TW is doing.

 

Finally, while it seems like Lin yanked WIVB's signal from TW, in reality the deal for TW to carry WIVB ended. TW is no longer paying for their signal. I can't expect WIVB to just give TW their signal, for nothing, in the middle of a negotiation. What would be TW's incentive for negotiating?

 

But, as I said, I think Lin has to share some fault, I just don't know what that is, just yet. It was suggested that Lin wanted their payment "up front". Dunno if that is true, but that could have started things off in a bad direction. The best solution here, may be arbitration, IMO. I hope someone (or something...gov't? there, I said it) can persuade the sides to make the deal, or get one imposed upon them. I have some other ideas, but they are more radical and involve massive lawsuits, and such.

[ricojes]

Do you guys think that there is even as much as a one percent chance a deal gets done in time for Sunday's game? I have this brand new 52" LCD that is just sitting there. The reception doesn't come in perfectly clear like some people find.

Is it an HD TV? If so, 4.1 is the channel 4 HD feed and is a perfect picture. I am watching the news on WNLO HD (23.1) as I type and it's perfect. It's a pain in the a$$, but at least it's a good picture for squish the fish day....GO BILLS!!

[stuckincincy]

I've now idea what the current status of T-W spinning off its' cable operations:

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/e/content/s...lid=inform_artr

 

Perhaps they feel it is in their best interest not to enter into new contracts with new/current content providers.

[The Dean]

I've now idea what the current status of T-W spinning off its' cable operations:

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/e/content/s...lid=inform_artr

 

Perhaps they feel it is in their best interest not to enter into new contracts with new/current content providers.

 

 

You may just be right, Cincy. cablebabe, care to comment?

[cåblelady]

You may just be right, Cincy. cablebabe, care to comment?

Nothing will be changing in day-to-day operations. We'll just become our own entity.

[The Dean]

Nothing will be changing in day-to-day operations. We'll just become our own entity.

 

 

I've become my own enemy!

 

I hope things work out well, cablebabe. Now get your ass to these negotiations and get WIVB back on the system!

[DRutka]

I'm not sure what you are asking, but I will give it a shot. I imagine Lin is getting in the neighborhood of 10 cents per subscriber under their old agreements with other cable operators in other cities. (I total guess, BTW, but that is ballpark for local network stations.) They could have very different arrangements in other markets if they own a local cable new channel, or something like that. In those cases, sometime they charge next to nothing for the net affil and a quarter, or something, for the new local cable news channel. There are a bunch of different kinds of deals around the country.

 

I'm don't have a lot of info on the rates local stations charge DTV/Dish and the like. Those deals seem to get made so fast, with very few issues, I was never really needed to supply info, go to the meeting, look at documents, etc. In fact, most of the cable deals are fairly easily made, too (or at least WERE, a few years ago). It usually comes down to one or two cable systems that want to play "hard ball". While I can't be certain that's what TW is doing here, but if they really are offering nothing, and (if Kgun's info is correct) if TW stonewalls channels 7 and 2, when their deals are up, "Hard Ball" may be too soft of a term for what TW is doing.

 

Finally, while it seems like Lin yanked WIVB's signal from TW, in reality the deal for TW to carry WIVB ended. TW is no longer paying for their signal. I can't expect WIVB to just give TW their signal, for nothing, in the middle of a negotiation. What would be TW's incentive for negotiating?

 

But, as I said, I think Lin has to share some fault, I just don't know what that is, just yet. It was suggested that Lin wanted their payment "up front". Dunno if that is true, but that could have started things off in a bad direction. The best solution here, may be arbitration, IMO. I hope someone (or something...gov't? there, I said it) can persuade the sides to make the deal, or get one imposed upon them. I have some other ideas, but they are more radical and involve massive lawsuits, and such.

 

Your point of view is just that, a point of view. What many people forget (as pointed out by a previous poster) is that WIVB's signal can not reach Time Warner's full viewing audience. By Time Warner carrying WIVB, they increase WIVB's viewership, thus allowing WIVB to charge higher rates to their advertisers. That increased revenue because of this is payment enough in my opinion. Options that just are not there for cable channels.

 

I have a friend that works at WIVB. WIVB was financially sound up to this point. Now, things are not going well for them. Many part time employees and news reporters have been laid off. Local advertisers are pulling their adds, or not paying their bills because they were charged based on how many customers their adds would reach. Without Time Warner, WIVB can not reach those customers. With each day that passes, according to my friend, WIVB's managers are becoming more and more frustrated with executives at Lin-TV. With the weak Buffalo market, WIVB may reach a point of no recovery financially. WIVB may cease to exist. If that happens, no one is to blame but Lin-TV.

 

Currently, Direct TV, Dish Network, and Verizon FiOS are not paying for, or paying next to nothing to carry WIVB. When those carriage agreements expire (most within the next year), everyone that is jumping ship on Time Warner will have the same problem all over again. A problem you will not be able to do anything about because you either have too much money invested in equipment (Direct TV or Dish Network), or can not get out of your contract (Verizon).