SuperKillerRobots Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 BBB - great post. Holcomb's Arm - I don't think you can judge a draft on wheather or not the Bills re-sign a player after their first contract. I think too much else goes into re-signing a player to simplify it like that. I look at Clements like that. They could have signed him and probably wanted to, to a certain extent. I'm sure things like his attitude, his leadership, his play (consistency), and monetary request were all taken into account. The only thing you can really draft for is the ability and toa certain extent production (from college). I don't think you can tell if a player is going to get greedy, or if he is going to be a me first, loud-mouthed type player as much as you can say that he is going to play the game well. I believe that the Clements situation had more to do with the Bills not wanting to give that much money to a player who wasn't really a leader and came off as kind of an ass. The big contracts should be given to the players who are the complete package, not just good players on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Well-written, my friend. I even like the title! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Nice job- I really agree with your level of competency comment- both lines still can and should be upgraded significantly if the opportunity arises. But, you do not change just for the sake of changing- which is what we have done over the years at QB. All the complaining fans aren't going anywhere- and wouldn't have gone anywhere if we stuck with Bledsoe a few more years. This draft won't get us in the playoffs this year, but these players will play a big role in getting us there in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 BBB - great post. Holcomb's Arm - I don't think you can judge a draft on wheather or not the Bills re-sign a player after their first contract. I think too much else goes into re-signing a player to simplify it like that. I look at Clements like that. They could have signed him and probably wanted to, to a certain extent. I'm sure things like his attitude, his leadership, his play (consistency), and monetary request were all taken into account. The only thing you can really draft for is the ability and toa certain extent production (from college). I don't think you can tell if a player is going to get greedy, or if he is going to be a me first, loud-mouthed type player as much as you can say that he is going to play the game well. I believe that the Clements situation had more to do with the Bills not wanting to give that much money to a player who wasn't really a leader and came off as kind of an ass. The big contracts should be given to the players who are the complete package, not just good players on the field. When TD made the Nate Clements selection, he already had Antoine Winfield on the roster. Drafting Clements allowed TD to receive good CB play while letting Winfield (a former 1st round pick) go first contract and out. Clements' first contract also expired under TD; although Marv got another year out of him by slapping the franchise tag on him. The point I'm getting at with all of this is that the expectation for a first round pick should be for him to give your team 10 or 12 solid years of play. When he only delivers half of that--as, for example, through a first contract and out situation--you're only getting half the value of that pick. As a general rule, the core of most Super Bowl teams was obtained via the draft. Building a core of talented players is hard to do when your plan is to have your first round pick go first contract and out. If McKelvin gets an extension, that tells me the strategy was to use a high draft pick on a long-term, core member of the team. If he hits free agency, that tells me this is just another instance of the team using a first round pick on a 1st round, first contract and out CB, at the expense of building that solid, long-term core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 2, 2008 Author Share Posted May 2, 2008 Well-written, my friend. I even like the title! Thanks, Astro! When TD made the Nate Clements selection, he already had Antoine Winfield on the roster. Drafting Clements allowed TD to receive good CB play while letting Winfield (a former 1st round pick) go first contract and out. Clements' first contract also expired under TD; although Marv got another year out of him by slapping the franchise tag on him. The point I'm getting at with all of this is that the expectation for a first round pick should be for him to give your team 10 or 12 solid years of play. When he only delivers half of that--as, for example, through a first contract and out situation--you're only getting half the value of that pick. As a general rule, the core of most Super Bowl teams was obtained via the draft. Building a core of talented players is hard to do when your plan is to have your first round pick go first contract and out. If McKelvin gets an extension, that tells me the strategy was to use a high draft pick on a long-term, core member of the team. If he hits free agency, that tells me this is just another instance of the team using a first round pick on a 1st round, first contract and out CB, at the expense of building that solid, long-term core. Absolutely. If the plan isn't to re-sign McKelvin when it becomes necessary, its tough to call this a successful pick. It may not be a 'bad' pick in the sense that the scouting department made a mistake, or their value board was set up poorly, or they took a guy who couldn't fit the system...the problem would lie more in strategy and foresight. We'll see if this regime has a new take on the 1st round free agent corner dilemma, as they hopefully realize we can't just continue burning 1st round picks on cornerbacks every 5 or 6 years. Been there, done that, and it just hasn't worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 BBB, what an awesome post this is. The clarity of your message is obvious that it comes from your heart. The passion is sparkling and is a great example of what a Buffalo Bill fan is all about. I look forward to more of your thoughts and feelings on the Bills, it inspires me and renews my optimism in this team and upcoming season. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 2, 2008 Author Share Posted May 2, 2008 BBB, what an awesome post this is. The clarity of your message is obvious that it comes from your heart. The passion is sparkling and is a great example of what a Buffalo Bill fan is all about. I look forward to more of your thoughts and feelings on the Bills, it inspires me and renews my optimism in this team and upcoming season. Thanks. You're too kind, Tip. You flatter me. Its certainly nothing compared to your latest thread...I've just never read or heard or seen anything like that. Every Bills fan should read this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 ......the expectation for a first round pick should be for him to give your team 10 or 12 solid years of play..... It would be a fairly small percent(25%?) that actually end up doing that. Perhaps one should expect what is the norm.....but hope for better. BTW BBB.....I agree with the others......top post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 It would be a fairly small percent(25%?) that actually end up doing that. Perhaps one should expect what is the norm.....but hope for better. You have a good point. No matter how good your front office is, there's always going to be a chance of drafting the next Mike Williams or Erik Flowers. When you do draft the right guy, it's very important you keep him with your team well beyond just his first contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 You have a good point. No matter how good your front office is, there's always going to be a chance of drafting the next Mike Williams or Erik Flowers. When you do draft the right guy, it's very important you keep him with your team well beyond just his first contract. But the reality is different..... e.g. 2001 1st round Only 9 of the 31 players are still with their original teams(29%).....and that was within 7 seasons. It may be important as you say to keep them but the reality is there are many factors in todays NFL which sees a majority move to different teams. Michael Vick - out of the league Leonard Davis - Moved Gerard Warren - Moved Justin Smith - Moved LaDainian Tomlinson - Stayed Richard Seymour - Stayed Andre Carter - Moved David Terrell - Moved Koren Robinson - Moved Jamal Reynolds - Moved....out of league Dan Morgan - Stayed Damione Lewis - Moved Marcus Stroud - Moved Kenyatta Walker - Stayed Rod Gardner - Moved Santana Moss - Moved Steve Hutchinson - Moved Jeff Backus - Stayed Casey Hampton - Stayed Adam Archuleta - Moved Nate Clements - Moved Will Allen - Moved Deuce McAllister - Stayed Willie Middlebrooks - Moved Freddie Mitchell - Out of League Jamar Fletcher - Moved Michael Bennett - Moved Derrick Gibson - Out of League Ryan Pickett - Moved Reggie Wayne - Stayed Todd Heap - Stayed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flomoe Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 You're too kind, Tip. You flatter me. Its certainly nothing compared to your latest thread...I've just never read or heard or seen anything like that. Every Bills fan should read this! Great post BBB and one of the best posts on here in a long time, although Tipster's might be the best post of all time. I totally agree with all the optimism and euphoria. Times are a changing and it's been a long time coming. I can't wait for the home opener. It will be my 24th in a row and and possibly the most optimistic I've been since #12 walked onto the field against the Jets many years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts