GG Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 The people who actually read about Jefferson respect him less than the people who don't. The attacks he orchestrated on Washington, Adams, and Hamilton that eventually landed him in the White House were completely awful. His economic theories were a joke. Was he kind of like the crazy grand-uncle in a barber shop shouting out proclamations? Perhaps if East Brady had quoted Hamilton on the Founding Fathers' economic views, he may be taken more seriously than a dirty napkin on my desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 yet I have you and molson six pack rubbing each others balls, funny stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Glad to have made post #14,000 a funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Have the obligations already made their way on the balance sheet as the merger hasn't been deemed effective as of yet? Again, haven't been following as closely as I'd like this week, but I'd bet the merger isn't near effective yet. Usually, when a public company acquires another, they make a bid for the stock that is effective maybe a month down the road...when the bid's accepted (or the market perceives it to be), the stock price stabilizes at that price. If JPM's purchase were anywhere NEAR a done deal, B-S would be trading at $2, and not $5.22 last I checked (because who in their right mind would be buying at $5.22 something that they knew was going to be worth $2 in a few weeks?) I also recall hearing that one of B-S's largest shareholders gave a resounding "Hell, no!" to giving up his shares at $2/per. As to when the obligations hit the balance sheet...certainly not before acquisition (not officially, though people will be doing the calculations long beforehand). And certainly before the next quarterly report. Beyond those two constraints, I don't actually know what the accepted accounting practice is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Glad to have made post #14,000 a funny. It's funny because it's so utterly unreal. Have you ever read GG's and molson's discussions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 It's funny because it's so utterly unreal. Have you ever read GG's and molson's discussions? Discussions? Now that is a funny. As for the other points, this is not a usual M&A deal. JPM bankers are already at Bear, and they have guaranteed all Bear transactions. So, for the near term, all Bear liabilities are JPM's liabilities. That's something that the screamers are missing. JPM is setting aside $6 bn for the integration & litigation - something Bear shareholders or other owners would need to put up to keep it afloat. That translates to about $55/share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Discussions? Now that is a funny. As for the other points, this is not a usual M&A deal. JPM bankers are already at Bear, and they have guaranteed all Bear transactions. So, for the near term, all Bear liabilities are JPM's liabilities. That's something that the screamers are missing. JPM is setting aside $6 bn for the integration & litigation - something Bear shareholders or other owners would need to put up to keep it afloat. That translates to about $55/share. They put up $6 Billion on Sunday@ 7PM.....Bear could have borrowed that $6 Billion at 9PM and kept themselves going. What the Fed did was put Barbaro down on the track so that they could collect the insurance money, instead of giving him a chance of surgery and recovery. The end result may have been the same, but heart of the matter can be questioned. Well, on to a new day and new issues. Gold and Oil getting spit up like some bad sushi. At the same time, Dick Cheney is pumping our future conflict with Iran. I had to add to oil and gold today assuming it is just selling off of winners to keep afloat. Beware the Middle East this weekend. Hezbullah may start the games as early as Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Again, haven't been following as closely as I'd like this week, but I'd bet the merger isn't near effective yet. Usually, when a public company acquires another, they make a bid for the stock that is effective maybe a month down the road...when the bid's accepted (or the market perceives it to be), the stock price stabilizes at that price. If JPM's purchase were anywhere NEAR a done deal, B-S would be trading at $2, and not $5.22 last I checked (because who in their right mind would be buying at $5.22 something that they knew was going to be worth $2 in a few weeks?) I also recall hearing that one of B-S's largest shareholders gave a resounding "Hell, no!" to giving up his shares at $2/per. As to when the obligations hit the balance sheet...certainly not before acquisition (not officially, though people will be doing the calculations long beforehand). And certainly before the next quarterly report. Beyond those two constraints, I don't actually know what the accepted accounting practice is. Actually you're right since I work in a back office that handles corporate actions, Bloomberg shows that the effective date is not for a while. Basically Bear Sterns is still up and running but i could just imagine how much of the stock loan positions are being unwound as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 They put up $6 Billion on Sunday@ 7PM.....Bear could have borrowed that $6 Billion at 9PM and kept themselves going. What the Fed did was put Barbaro down on the track so that they could collect the insurance money, instead of giving him a chance of surgery and recovery. The end result may have been the same, but heart of the matter can be questioned. Nice analogy. What's the history of race horses recovering from broken legs? What's your confidence that the run on Bear wouldn't have continued even if they got the $6 billion. If they borrowed the full $30 bn directly from the Fed, wouldn't that be a bigger indictment of the free market theory, as the Fed would be lending such a big number to an insolvent firm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Nice analogy. What's the history of race horses recovering from broken legs? What's your confidence that the run on Bear wouldn't have continued even if they got the $6 billion. If they borrowed the full $30 bn directly from the Fed, wouldn't that be a bigger indictment of the free market theory, as the Fed would be lending such a big number to an insolvent firm? I am giving you the point.....it was just the timing of policies and decisions that is disturbing. It was probably the proper move to put them out of their misery on a stand alone decision. The rumors are still buzzing even with help. The infusion up top has allowed the big boys to lean down on the intermediaries a little more, and them on the funds. Nobody is strong enough to scream and whip anyone else, but today there were many a call of..."you really need to do something." It's still 85% as tense as it was over the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 "Mission Accomplished" W never thought much of the rest of the world and reportedly never ventured outside the US (other than Mexico) before he became president. He has succeeded in making it difficult for many of us to travel outside the country. As a Republican, I am counting the days until W leaves office. I just hope that McCain can bring the party back to what it was under Reagan. The Bush presidency has been horrible on so many different levels. The best part of the Bush presidency was the tax cuts. Because of his other policies, W has made it very difficult politically for them to be made permanent. What many Republicans don't seem to remember is that Ronald Reagan hated big business. Reagan was a champion of the small businessman and hated big companies Thanks to Bill Clinton and Wall Street, the merger mania has caused our economy to become a third-world-type. Bill Clinton gets all the credit for the huge economic growth during his administration. But what he really did was create a "Wall-Street Bubble" economy, with excessive CEO compensation and corporate downsizing. I think if you were to look back on Clinton he is one of the worst presidents that we've ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 What many Republicans don't seem to remember is that Ronald Reagan hated big business. Reagan was a champion of the small businessman and hated big companies Thanks to Bill Clinton and Wall Street, the merger mania has caused our economy to become a third-world-type. Bill Clinton gets all the credit for the huge economic growth during his administration. But what he really did was create a "Wall-Street Bubble" economy, with excessive CEO compensation and corporate downsizing. I think if you were to look back on Clinton he is one of the worst presidents that we've ever had. I did not know this. I will have to read up on it. Where do you recommend I start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 I did not know this. I will have to read up on it. Where do you recommend I start? The Onion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 The Onion ? No way can they handle such complex macroeconomic theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 No way can they handle such complex macroeconomic theories. You ever read this book? http://www.amazon.com/Demon-Our-Own-Design...n/dp/0471227277 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 You ever read this book? http://www.amazon.com/Demon-Our-Own-Design...n/dp/0471227277 I have not read it, but probably won't find too many things to disagree with. Looks like prescient timing for the book to have been released last April, when first cracks started to show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 I have not read it, but probably won't find too many things to disagree with. Looks like prescient timing for the book to have been released last April, when first cracks started to show. It's well written tbh. There were many doomsday predictions with respect to the stock market but I don't think anyone had as much credibility as this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 It's well written tbh. There were many doomsday predictions with respect to the stock market but I don't think anyone had as much credibility as this guy. It's because he was writing about the derivatives market and structured products that few really understand. The old crusty credit types have been screaming about debt derivatives for twenty years. Maybe some will be lured out of retirement now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 A guy named "bookstabber" wrote a book? Oh, the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 A guy named "bookstabber" wrote a book? Oh, the irony. And ironically he's on trial for multiple stabbings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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