The Cincinnati Kid Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn State -- He's the type of linebacker you pencil in as a starter for 10 years and don't worry about that spot. http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10097800 I want him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Soland Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn State -- He's the type of linebacker you pencil in as a starter for 10 years and don't worry about that spot. http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10097800 I want him. Not if he doesn't fit for the Cover 2, which is the only question that matters and which to me is very debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Not if he doesn't fit for the Cover 2, which is the only question that matters and which to me is very debatable. slow and broken is not what you want out of your 1st rounder. Ask teh Dolphins about reaching for Jason Allen based on pre-injury performances. A LB should not be replacing reliance on speed with instincts until after age 30, not as a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jri111 Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Not if he doesn't fit for the Cover 2, which is the only question that matters and which to me is very debatable. ummm... yeah, i'm pretty sure that penn state plays pretty much the college equivilent to a cover-2 defense... no, check that, i'm POSTIVE they do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 slow and broken is not what you want out of your 1st rounder. Ask teh Dolphins about reaching for Jason Allen based on pre-injury performances. A LB should not be replacing reliance on speed with instincts until after age 30, not as a rookie. You MAY be right, but let me ask.... Do you have some sort of special filter that sets an alarm every time Posluszny is typed in this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Soland Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 ummm... yeah, i'm pretty sure that penn state plays pretty much the college equivilent to a cover-2 defense... no, check that, i'm POSTIVE they do! So you're saying that Big 10 offenses composed of Big 10 players are the equivalent of NFL offenses and NFL players in terms of speed, size, and complexity and that the minimum skill set that it takes to dominate said Big 10 offenses as a OLB in a College Cover-2 Scheme directly correlates to the same skill set necessary to dominate NFL offenses and NFL players as a player in a NFL Cover-2 Defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jri111 Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 slow and broken is not what you want out of your 1st rounder. Ask teh Dolphins about reaching for Jason Allen based on pre-injury performances. A LB should not be replacing reliance on speed with instincts until after age 30, not as a rookie. Here's more proof that Puz is so much better then you give him credit... http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05312/602421.stm "I truly believe," Jack Ham was saying the other day, "he's the best linebacker ever to play at Penn State." Concerned about his speed: "I don't know how fast [Posluszny] is in the 40, but I'll bet you'd be amazed if you timed him for 10 yards," Ham said. "He has that burst to the football." -Ham also although Willis was in the 4.3's in this 40 times he was SLOWER then Puz in all of the cone drills, you know, drills that have linebackers running side to side, back and forth, stuff they actually DO on gameday... When they start placing tracks in the middle of the football field, then i'll start caring about a LB's 40 time. Note: this is not a knock agasint Willis, I think he'll be an excellent linebacker in the NFL. I just think people are discounting Puz entirely too much. A lot of people will be upset come draft day if they don't realize that taking him at 12 is a REAL possibility... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jri111 Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 So you're saying that Big 10 offenses composed of Big 10 players are the equivalent of NFL offenses and NFL players in terms of speed, size, and complexity and that the minimum skill set that it takes to dominate said Big 10 offenses as a OLB in a College Cover-2 Scheme directly correlates to the same skill set necessary to dominate NFL offenses and NFL players as a player in a NFL Cover-2 Defense? So are you saying that you can't judge any player on their college performance becuase the competition they play against does not "directly correlates," to the type of talent in the NFL? Or because the offenseive and defensive systems are not identical? DON'T BE A F*CKIN ASS AND DO SOME GOD FORESAKEN RESEARCH!! you want to know if Puz can play the cover-2, well i think it's a pretty good indication when he plays in a zone-intensive defense in college and won the Butkus (2005) and Bednarik (2005 and 2006) awards playing in a defense that is pretty darn similar. Of course the talen is not the same or the offesens are not identical, but what college ones are? By your standards you should judge every player by their intangibles (i.e. 40 times, injuries, etc..) and not even consider on field performance... smart, real smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I 90 Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 A lot of people will be upset come draft day if they don't realize that taking him at 12 is a REAL possibility... Like him or not, he is less a reach than Whitner was. The possibility is scary real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Soland Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 So are you saying that you can't judge any player on their college performance becuase the competition they play against does not "directly correlates," to the type of talent in the NFL? Did I say that? Please show me in my post where I said that. I merely questioned how you judge the Poz as being suited for a NFL Cover-2 Defense based upon his experience playing in a similar defense in college. Or because the offenseive and defensive systems are not identical? DON'T BE A F*CKIN ASS AND DO SOME GOD FORESAKEN RESEARCH!! Who's being the ass? And how was my question indicative of someone who has not done any "research"? you want to know if Puz can play the cover-2, Yes, I do, in the NFL. That is the question up for debate. There are lots of opinions about whether or not he is a proper fit, evidently. well i think it's a pretty good indication when he plays in a zone-intensive defense in college and won the Butkus (2005) and Bednarik (2005 and 2006) awards playing in a defense that is pretty darn similar. That is certainly a big plus. It certainly indicates his college prowess. Whether or not that translates to playing in an NFL Cover-2 defense to the same level of effectiveness is the question and one that I am not sold on yet. Of course the talen is not the same or the offesens are not identical, but what college ones are? None. This has no bearing, however, on whether a player is capable of playing a certain defense in the NFL. By all accounts, to play LB in the Cover-2 you have to be a certain quality of athlete as well as a football player. Speed and athleticism is at a premium. I certainly am very willing to listen to anything anyone knows about Poz and I hope my mind can be changed, but I am not convinced as of now, from my experience and knowledge of him, that he is suited for the Cover 2. If the Bills draft him on the 28th, we will at least know that the Bills think he can. Their judgment, in the end, is the only one that matters before he actually takes the field and performs. By your standards you should judge every player by their intangibles (i.e. 40 times, injuries, etc..) and not even consider on field performance... smart, real smart Once again, please show in my post below where I said either of these things: - I judge every player only by their intangibles - i don't even consider their on field performance So you're saying that Big 10 offenses composed of Big 10 players are the equivalent of NFL offenses and NFL players in terms of speed, size, and complexity and that the minimum skill set that it takes to dominate said Big 10 offenses as a OLB in a College Cover-2 Scheme directly correlates to the same skill set necessary to dominate NFL offenses and NFL players as a player in a NFL Cover-2 Defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 All Depends what Poz you're getting. The 2005 poz who looked like a real good lb attacking the field with reckless abandon, or the 2006 poz who while adequate looked a few beats slow and indecisive at times. For my money I'd just as soon trade back and take jon beason or wait till the 3rd and take rufus alexander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn State -- He's the type of linebacker you pencil in as a starter for 10 years and don't worry about that spot. http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10097800 I want him. Notice how everybody in his top 32 is considered an all star, and will be special for a really long time. How many of them will end up being pro bowlers after 5 years? Don't pay any attention to this sh--, my god, i thought we knew this. Why not just link to Mel Kipers website where there is a daily blowing of the top fifty players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn State -- He's the type of linebacker you pencil in as a starter for 10 years and don't worry about that spot. http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10097800 I want him. This is not your fault, but I have !@#$ing had it with websites that launch audio files like Greg !@#$ing Gumble popping up and yelling in my !@#$ing ear when I'm try to read Prisco's article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 View Posluszny as McCargo... the Bills probably are. Both projected to go near the end of the first round (or early 2nd)... a talent that the Bills want, but not good enough to reach up and pick with their early first. I see (or I should say, would like to see) the Bills taking Marshawn Lynch with their number 12 pick, and then wheeling and dealing to move up to the first round (like they did with Chicago last year) and draft the leader from Linebacker U. Remember, they have two 3rd round picks this year, just like they had last year. Give up our 2nd and a 3rd for Pos. Very real possiblity, that is afterall, exactly what we gave up for McCargo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 View Posluszny as McCargo... the Bills probably are. Both projected to go near the end of the first round (or early 2nd)... a talent that the Bills want, but not good enough to reach up and pick with their early first. I see (or I should say, would like to see) the Bills taking Marshawn Lynch with their number 12 pick, and then wheeling and dealing to move up to the first round (like they did with Chicago last year) and draft the leader from Linebacker U. Remember, they have two 3rd round picks this year, just like they had last year. Give up our 2nd and a 3rd for Pos. Very real possiblity, that is afterall, exactly what we gave up for McCargo. Yeah, I see a trade up as making much more sense than a trade down. We have two big holes that exceed the importance of any other deficiencies. The most important think of this draft is to get a starting LB and RB. Then possibly a CB. To trade down you have to either have: 1) Willis isn't available, convinced Poz will go later, not interested in an available RB 2) Willis is available, but convinced Poz will go later, not interested in an available RB, and think that the Poz plus whatever you get to trade down is worth more than Willis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 All Depends what Poz you're getting. The 2005 poz who looked like a real good lb attacking the field with reckless abandon, or the 2006 poz who while adequate looked a few beats slow and indecisive at times. For my money I'd just as soon trade back and take jon beason or wait till the 3rd and take rufus alexander. we have a winner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jri111 Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Did I say that? Please show me in my post where I said that. I merely questioned how you judge the Poz as being suited for a NFL Cover-2 Defense based upon his experience playing in a similar defense in college.Who's being the ass? And how was my question indicative of someone who has not done any "research"? Yes, I do, in the NFL. That is the question up for debate. There are lots of opinions about whether or not he is a proper fit, evidently. That is certainly a big plus. It certainly indicates his college prowess. Whether or not that translates to playing in an NFL Cover-2 defense to the same level of effectiveness is the question and one that I am not sold on yet. None. This has no bearing, however, on whether a player is capable of playing a certain defense in the NFL. By all accounts, to play LB in the Cover-2 you have to be a certain quality of athlete as well as a football player. Speed and athleticism is at a premium. I certainly am very willing to listen to anything anyone knows about Poz and I hope my mind can be changed, but I am not convinced as of now, from my experience and knowledge of him, that he is suited for the Cover 2. If the Bills draft him on the 28th, we will at least know that the Bills think he can. Their judgment, in the end, is the only one that matters before he actually takes the field and performs. Once again, please show in my post below where I said either of these things: - I judge every player only by their intangibles - i don't even consider their on field performance OK lets do a quick recap: 1. you said that you have doubts that Puz can play in the cover 2 defense 2. I pointed out the fact that Penn State plays a zone-intenstive defense which is pretty much the college equivilent of the cover 2. I think this is a pretty good indication of whether he's a good fit for the cover 2 or not. 3. you reply back saying, and i quite: "So you're saying that Big 10 offenses composed of Big 10 players are the equivalent of NFL offenses and NFL players in terms of speed, size, and complexity and that the minimum skill set that it takes to dominate said Big 10 offenses as a OLB in a College Cover-2 Scheme directly correlates to the same skill set necessary to dominate NFL offenses and NFL players as a player in a NFL Cover-2 Defense?" Essentially I inferred from this 3 things: a. First that you don't think that you can compare Puz in a college cover two defesne because he played against college teams which are composed of college level talent. b. you think that because these two don't "directly correlate" that him being productive in a college cover-2 can't be used as an indication of whether he'll be good in the NFL. c. Lastly if Puz in a cover 2 like defense in the big-10 is not a indication of whether or not he'll be good in an NFL cover two, soley becuase the systems is a little different and the players aren't as good, then you are inferring that judging a player, ANY player by what they did in college (because it was against lesser competition then the NFL) should not be a determining factor. You did not say this directly but that's what your faulty logic implies. So on to your Questions, Concerns and Comments... number 1... I said "So are you saying that you can't judge any player on their college performance becuase the competition they play against does not "directly correlates," to the type of talent in the NFL?" You replied: "Did I say that? Please show me in my post where I said that. I merely questioned how you judge the Poz as being suited for a NFL Cover-2 Defense based upon his experience playing in a similar defense in college." My response to you is pretty much letter c above. And your "questioning" how I judge Puz as being suited for the NFL cover-2 defense based on his experience playing in the similar defense in college is the illogic that made me respond so ademently. How you can just dismiss the similarties is just mind-blowing. I'm not saying that he's a sure thing or just because he played in a similar defense in college that it would mean that he's going to be a stud in the NFL, but if should "alieviate" any of your concerns that he wouldn't be a good fit in the cover two. Your real concern would then be his talent level, not whether he'd fit into a defense that he's practicially already played in. number 2.... I said "Or because the offenseive and defensive systems are not identical? DON'T BE A F*CKIN ASS AND DO SOME GOD FORESAKEN RESEARCH!!" Your siad "Who's being the ass? And how was my question indicative of someone who has not done any "research"?" my response: maybe research was the wrong word, logic and common sense would be more approriate, because you have none of it in your post. So i apoligize for saying research. as for the rest i don't have the time to go point-by-point... but let me just conclude by saying this. No one knows whether he's going to be good in the NFL or not. In fact now one knows if any player is going to be the next peyton manning or the next ryan leaf. HOWEVER, there are things you can look for to see if a player is going to be a good fit for your team... And the fact that Puz has played in a zone defense in college should give you a good indication that he would fit into that system in the NFL. No rather he'll be "great" in that system, we'll have to wait and see. But it is completely illogical to dismiss the fact that he played in a similar defense because it wasn't the exact same and against lesser talent. 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JAMIEBUF12 Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Not if he doesn't fit for the Cover 2, which is the only question that matters and which to me is very debatable. paul is going to be a great linebacker regardless of what system he plays in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 paul is going to be a great linebacker regardless of what system he plays in. not if that defense requires speed and he is slow as molasass. He may know where to go, but he won't be able to get there. Spike was a great LB until he blew out his achilles. Bills cut him becuase he can't move- same with with Pos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 not if that defense requires speed and he is slow as molasass. He may know where to go, but he won't be able to get there. Spike was a great LB until he blew out his achilles. Bills cut him becuase he can't move- same with with Pos Holy Crap!!!! We cut Poz??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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