Chilly Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 JFK also strengthened our position in Vietnam and started the attempt to get the Civil Rights Act of 64 and Voting Rights Act of 65 into law. Rumor has it shortly before his death JFK started to have his doubts about Vietnam and was considering pulling everyone out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Truman is to the Cold War what Clinton is to welfare reform. Yes, they both did something, but not because they wanted to. Reagan based nearly his whole presidency around winning the Cold War--a goal which he achieved. 1. He built up the U.S economy. 2. He used this increased economic strength to build up the U.S. military 3. Instead of blathering on about common ground between America and the Soviets (as Carter did), Reagan clearly defined the Soviet Union as an Evil Empire. He contrasted this evil with the vision of freedom he articulated for America. Reagan's view was expressed with such simplicity, such clarity, and so much repetition, that it was able to spread far beyond American borders, and influence events in far away places. 4. Reagan supplied weapons to Afghan rebels--rebels which were ultimately successful in ending the Soviet occupation of their nation. I've heard it said that the Afghan War was the Soviets' equivalent of Vietnam. 5. Reagan restored American prestige in the world. He walked a fine line, and avoided Carter-like weakness, as well as George W. Bush-like overaggression and overbearing behavior. 6. He helped reduce the number of nuclear weapons in the world. First he built up the U.S. nuclear weapons supply, then he traded away those buildups for Soviet concessions. Ultimately, Reagan's vision of freedom was delivered so persuasively that Gorbachev felt he had to do something. So Gorbachev began offering limited freedoms to the Soviet people. This paved the way to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Democrats fought Reagan every step of the way. They fought him when he wanted to increase military spending; saying the money should be used for schools. (Never mind the fact that a voucher system would increase school effectiveness while reducing cost.) Democrats successfully resisted Reagan's efforts to send military aid to the anti-communist freedom fighters in Nicaragua. Democrats called Reagan a war-monger and a cowboy after his "Evil Empire" speech. They accused him of taking too hard a line against the Soviet Union, and repeatedly urged him to soften his stance. Democrats resisted nearly every step Reagan took to end the Cold War. 860154[/snapback] Reagan set the stage for the world we live in today... Would you take the Cold War or War on Terrorism? Cut through the "nasty cloud"... The Cold War seems a lot more "stable." And like the Afghan issue... We could just deflect it on the commies arse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Reagan set the stage for the world we live in today... Would you take the Cold War or War on Terrorism? Cut through the "nasty cloud"... The Cold War seems a lot more "stable." And like the Afghan issue... We could just deflect it on the commies arse... 860880[/snapback] Are you trying to blame Reagan for September 11 or the war on terror? Reagan played an instrumental role in solving the problems of the Cold War. He didn't create the problems we have today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Are you trying to blame Reagan for September 11 or the war on terror? Reagan played an instrumental role in solving the problems of the Cold War. He didn't create the problems we have today. 860924[/snapback] No. He may have played a role in solving the problem (Cold War)... But, a whole new one sprang up. Kinda like prescribing anti-biotics for the smallest of aliments... You tend to need bigger, stronger, newer drugs to combat the "super bugs" out there. I don't blame him... He set his goal and accomplished his goal... Gotta hand it to him... Kinda like painting yourself in a corner... Can't fault the guy for the fast pace of the work, getting the work down... But, when you look up... You are still in the corner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Are you trying to blame Reagan for September 11 or the war on terror? Reagan played an instrumental role in solving the problems of the Cold War. He didn't create the problems we have today. 860924[/snapback] You can't blame any one person or administration for it. However, some of the dealings we had back then with Iraq and Iran and the Saudis certainly have fueled today's situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 JFK also strengthened our position in Vietnam and started the attempt to get the Civil Rights Act of 64 and Voting Rights Act of 65 into law. Rumor has it shortly before his death JFK started to have his doubts about Vietnam and was considering pulling everyone out. 860813[/snapback] Now i am a little hungover, so i think i might be a little slow on the uptake here, but are you insulting a liberal president? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 No. He may have played a role in solving the problem (Cold War)... But, a whole new one sprang up. Kinda like prescribing anti-biotics for the smallest of aliments... You tend to need bigger, stronger, newer drugs to combat the "super bugs" out there. I don't blame him... He set his goal and accomplished his goal... Gotta hand it to him... Kinda like painting yourself in a corner... Can't fault the guy for the fast pace of the work, getting the work down... But, when you look up... You are still in the corner... 860934[/snapback] Both the metaphors you've used (anti-biotics and painting into a corner) have no relevance to Reagan's policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Now i am a little hungover, so i think i might be a little slow on the uptake here, but are you insulting a liberal president? 861034[/snapback] Not on the Civil Rights and Voting Rights act. He made a mistake sending more American personnel into Vietnam though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Reagan set the stage for the world we live in today... Would you take the Cold War or War on Terrorism? Cut through the "nasty cloud"... The Cold War seems a lot more "stable." And like the Afghan issue... We could just deflect it on the commies arse... 860880[/snapback] Chewbacca is a Wookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Not on the Civil Rights and Voting Rights act. He made a mistake sending more American personnel into Vietnam though. 861129[/snapback] Simply agreeing and bringing up more points, Lyndon Johnson was the one who sent more military personnel into Vietnam, and did absolutely nothing else, but some how he is in the top 20 i believe. What kind of crap is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Simply agreeing and bringing up more points, Lyndon Johnson was the one who sent more military personnel into Vietnam, and did absolutely nothing else, but some how he is in the top 20 i believe. What kind of crap is that? 861144[/snapback] All the Great Society legislation passed under his watch. So I wouldn't exactly say he did "nothing else". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Simply agreeing and bringing up more points, Lyndon Johnson was the one who sent more military personnel into Vietnam, and did absolutely nothing else, but some how he is in the top 20 i believe. What kind of crap is that? 861144[/snapback] What dave_b said. LBJ was instrumental in helping the civil rights movement. He broke the filibuster on the Civil Rights Act and strengthened it so that the justice dept could sue on behalf of blacks who were discriminated against. Without that provision, they wouldn't have had the resources to enforce the law. He also got the Voting Rights act passed, medicade/medicare, education spending increases, housing rights acts, and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Reagan was the architech of ending the Cold War???? Why not Truman for starting containment? Kennan, you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Kennan, you mean. 863966[/snapback] He'll get to Kennan when he regresses towards the mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 What dave_b said. LBJ was instrumental in helping the civil rights movement. He broke the filibuster on the Civil Rights Act and strengthened it so that the justice dept could sue on behalf of blacks who were discriminated against. Without that provision, they wouldn't have had the resources to enforce the law. He also got the Voting Rights act passed, medicade/medicare, education spending increases, housing rights acts, and others. That's a very glowing portrayal of a man who did so much to mess things up in this country. The welfare programs LBJ created strongly discouraged people from working low-wage jobs. They also forced fathers to leave their wives and children if they wanted their families to receive full welfare benefits. A father who maintained contact with his family after the divorce could expect to be prosecuted for welfare fraud. This form of institutional brutality was ended by California's governor Ronald Reagan back in the 1970s, and by Newt Gingrich and the Republican Congress in the 1990s. Under the welfare state LBJ created, poor people didn't work, and hence were less likely to teach their own children a strong work ethic. As though to ensure as many people as possible were born into this cycle of poverty, LBJ rewarded welfare recipients for having as many children as possible. While these social programs were harmful to people of all races, blacks were hurt the most. Due to institutionalized racial discrimination, blacks were disproprortionately poor; and thus disproportionately likely to be imprisoned in the cycle of poverty LBJ did so much to create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 That's a very glowing portrayal of a man who did so much to mess things up in this country. The welfare programs LBJ created strongly discouraged people from working low-wage jobs. They also forced fathers to leave their wives and children if they wanted their families to receive full welfare benefits. A father who maintained contact with his family after the divorce could expect to be prosecuted for welfare fraud. This form of institutional brutality was ended by California's governor Ronald Reagan back in the 1970s, and by Newt Gingrich and the Republican Congress in the 1990s. Under the welfare state LBJ created, poor people didn't work, and hence were less likely to teach their own children a strong work ethic. As though to ensure as many people as possible were born into this cycle of poverty, LBJ rewarded welfare recipients for having as many children as possible. While these social programs were harmful to people of all races, blacks were hurt the most. Due to institutionalized racial discrimination, blacks were disproprortionately poor; and thus disproportionately likely to be imprisoned in the cycle of poverty LBJ did so much to create. I was only praising the civil rights acts that he passed through, not the rest of the stuff I mentioned. He *was* isntrumental in the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act of the mid 1960s. I wasn't judging his overall presidency as glowing or not. Boondock said that he simply sent troops to Vietnam and did nothing else. My point was he did a whole helluva lot more (for better or worse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I was only praising the civil rights acts that he passed through, not the rest of the stuff I mentioned. He *was* isntrumental in the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act of the mid 1960s. I wasn't judging his overall presidency as glowing or not. Boondock said that he simply sent troops to Vietnam and did nothing else. My point was he did a whole helluva lot more (for better or worse). I can live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I was only praising the civil rights acts that he passed through, not the rest of the stuff I mentioned. He *was* isntrumental in the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act of the mid 1960s. I wasn't judging his overall presidency as glowing or not. Boondock said that he simply sent troops to Vietnam and did nothing else. My point was he did a whole helluva lot more (for better or worse). But, how does praising him while at the same time as tearing him down in anyway constitute his right to be in the top 20 of presidents? If we are judging based on the amount at which people screwed up, then there are a few people that i would like to propose to be on the list. Not trying to be a pain in the ass, just a little drunk and looking for some debate of some kind, cause the thugs i am drinking with have no idea who LBJ was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 No. He may have played a role in solving the problem (Cold War)... But, a whole new one sprang up. Kinda like prescribing anti-biotics for the smallest of aliments... You tend to need bigger, stronger, newer drugs to combat the "super bugs" out there. I don't blame him... He set his goal and accomplished his goal... Gotta hand it to him... Kinda like painting yourself in a corner... Can't fault the guy for the fast pace of the work, getting the work down... But, when you look up... You are still in the corner... The Muslim extremism thing didn't "spring up" under Reagan. It was already well underway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 The Muslim extremism thing didn't "spring up" under Reagan. It was already well underway. You are right... Was taking off since the late 1960's... Shouldn't have use the term "sprang up" to mean at that point in time or RR's admin...Talking a few decades here though and my point was more about a slow death to communism as an attempt to get a fim handle on some of the countries that were left in the rapid void caused by the quick collapse of the USSR... The USSR was headed off the cliff... No need to push them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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