Dibs Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I think it was a bad decision as well. Sure Houston isn't Indy, but the Jets & Lions aren't Indy either and we couldn't get a step on our last defensive possession in those games. As far as the hypothetical scenario of going for it & not making it: "even if they stop 'em 3&out" - there is no "even if" - either we force the 3&out or the game is over. Much better off taking your shot on 4th&4 which is not a terribly low % play. 844138[/snapback] It has been for us....37.5% on 4th downs. I think that since the decision is quite a debatable point means that either way....going for it....or not....is(would have been) an OK decision. I'm just grateful that the decision made came off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 There was nothing LUCKY about the play made by Nate when he knocked the pass down, face it Houston gambled and thought we would key on the running backs and threw it to their BEST reciever and our BEST defender made the play.....It doesn't matter what play they called, if we did NOT make the play......things are different since the bye week and some around here refuse to admit it! I could care less what they did or didn't do before the bye week, it is what they are doing NOW that matters most! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 The stupidity amazes me. Yes Houston punted the entire second half, but all they needed was 1 first down, which they got on all their second half drives except 1 (their only three and outs the entire game) prior to that final drive. So they got first downs on 8 of 9 possessions in the game, just needed one more and DJ says we'll stop them this time.... I just finished watching Heroes on NBC and now I know why DJ called a punt... He is the charcter Hiro from the show and can bend the space time continuum.... Thus punts meant nothing.... they needed just needed a first down. 844165[/snapback] You're totally ignoring the fact that Jauron knew the Texans would be backed up deep. He also knew that they would be forced to run on first and second down because of the time and 2:00 warning. If you know a team is going to play conservative and run deep in their own zone on at least first and second and probably third (although they stupidly passed) you can expect your defense to stop them if they need to, and they did. Their rushes in the second half up until that point were 34, 1, 3, 3, -3, -3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Sylvan Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 You're totally ignoring the fact that Jauron knew the Texans would be backed up deep. He also knew that they would be forced to run on first and second down because of the time and 2:00 warning. If you know a team is going to play conservative and run deep in their own zone on at least first and second and probably third (although they stupidly passed) you can expect your defense to stop them if they need to, and they did. Their rushes in the second half up until that point were 34, 1, 3, 3, -3, -3. 844177[/snapback] I wish that was the case against Indy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyF Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 There was nothing LUCKY about the play made by Nate when he knocked the pass down, face it Houston gambled and thought we would key on the running backs and threw it to their BEST reciever and our BEST defender made the play.....It doesn't matter what play they called, if we did NOT make the play......things are different since the bye week and some around here refuse to admit it! I could care less what they did or didn't do before the bye week, it is what they are doing NOW that matters most! 844173[/snapback] Nate played him tight (kudos), but the pass was off target and already incomplete when he knocked it down.... That was a nothing play...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 There was nothing LUCKY about the play made by Nate when he knocked the pass down, face it Houston gambled and thought we would key on the running backs and threw it to their BEST reciever and our BEST defender made the play.....It doesn't matter what play they called, if we did NOT make the play......things are different since the bye week and some around here refuse to admit it! I could care less what they did or didn't do before the bye week, it is what they are doing NOW that matters most! 844173[/snapback] Good point. Since the break we are 2 wins, 1 loss. As somebody said in a different thread...."QB rating does not get you to the playoffs." Neither does losing pretty. The fact we looked terrible against GB is irrelevant.....we still won. The D collapsed all first half against HOU.....big deal, it turned up in the second half & we won. If we can build on things now, we could be looking good next season. Fingers crossed....some more solid football to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I wish that was the case against Indy. 844182[/snapback] Yeah, there is virtually no difference between expecting Indy to get a first down against you and the Texans. They're practically mirror images of one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyF Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 Yeah, there is virtually no difference between expecting Indy to get a first down against you and the Texans. They're practically mirror images of one another. 844195[/snapback] Yes both expect to do it by the run and Indy held it the last 6:22 with ridiculous ease..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Sylvan Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Yeah, there is virtually no difference between expecting Indy to get a first down against you and the Texans. They're practically mirror images of one another. 844195[/snapback] Hey, I never said the two teams are even remotely close to each other in playing ability....I just wish we had stopped Indy Hopefully as our D gets better week by week there will come a time in the future when we can expect them to make a stand like that against any team in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Yes both expect to do it by the run and Indy held it the last 6:22 with ridiculous ease..... 844207[/snapback] Except the Colts, because they're very good, almost always move the ball if not score when they need to, especially against mediocre teams. And they proved it. And the Texans, because they tremendously suck, almost always blow it when they need to move the ball, even against mediocre teams. And they proved it. So you're right, the situations were almost identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Good point. Since the break we are 2 wins, 1 loss.As somebody said in a different thread...."QB rating does not get you to the playoffs." Neither does losing pretty. The fact we looked terrible against GB is irrelevant.....we still won. The D collapsed all first half against HOU.....big deal, it turned up in the second half & we won. If we can build on things now, we could be looking good next season. Fingers crossed....some more solid football to come. 844184[/snapback] We'll be looking good next monday with another win heading into the S.D. game... I really like our chances this weekend , we always play jacksonville tuff and it's in our house in late november.... It feels good to have HOPE, we should all learn to enjoy it, it is a matter of choice.... I have choosen to look up and forward, rather than back....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Kelly, seriously? Stop pulling a Daquix and arguing for arguing sake. In the NFL no team is so much better than another that it's easier to get the ball back w/ 2:20 than 6:20. Oh, and the Jets & Lions suck on the ground - we've conveniently forgotten that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Kelly, seriously? Stop pulling a Daquix and arguing for arguing sake. In the NFL no team is so much better than another that it's easier to get the ball back w/ 2:20 than 6:20. Oh, and the Jets & Lions suck on the ground - we've conveniently forgotten that. 844231[/snapback] Dick Jauron is an NFL coach. He thought the Bills D could hold the Texans offense and force a punt. OBVIOUSLY if he didnt believe that, he would have gone for it. It happened as he predicted. That's a good call. I THOROUGHLY believe and would bet my entire bank account that if we were playing the Colts yesterday and he was in the same circumstance, he would have gone for it. I would have too. I would have had zero confidence our defense could have stopped the Colts in a must stop one series drive. I had reasonable confidence we could do that against the Texans. The two teams are night and day, and even moreso when the game is on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Dick Jauron is an NFL coach. He thought the Bills D could hold the Texans offense and force a punt. OBVIOUSLY if he didnt believe that, he would have gone for it. It happened as he predicted. That's a good call. I THOROUGHLY believe and would bet my entire bank account that if we were playing the Colts yesterday and he was in the same circumstance, he would have gone for it. I would have too. I would have had zero confidence our defense could have stopped the Colts in a must stop one series drive. I had reasonable confidence we could do that against the Texans. The two teams are night and day, and even moreso when the game is on the line. 844235[/snapback] OK, the Colts game wasn't a one series drive though and you're pretending like it was; neither was the Lions game for that matter. I agree he would've gone for it vs. the Colts. As for being an "NFL coach" - I tend to give NFL coach the benefit of the doubt in the routine playcall/gameplanning department when they're watching film for 80 hours and I'm not; but not so much in the 4th down decisions which are heavily predicated on mathematics where coaches across the league consistently drop the ball. One day they'll see the light and math will change 4th down decision making the way sabermetrics has changed baseball. To be fair, DJ did at least go for it on 4th&1 from the 37 in the 2nd Qtr, when cowards like Gregg Williams & Marvin Lewis would've punted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 OK, the Colts game wasn't a one series drive though and you're pretending like it was; neither was the Lions game for that matter. I agree he would've gone for it vs. the Colts. As for being an "NFL coach" - I tend to give NFL coach the benefit of the doubt in the routine playcall/gameplanning department when they're watching film for 80 hours and I'm not; but not so much in the 4th down decisions which are heavily predicated on mathematics where coaches across the league consistently drop the ball. One day they'll see the light and math will change 4th down decision making the way sabermetrics has changed baseball. To be fair, DJ did at least go for it on 4th&1 from the 37 in the 2nd Qtr, when cowards like Gregg Williams & Marvin Lewis would've punted. 844258[/snapback] I didnt bring up the Colts, someone else did, and I thought they were completely different circumstances. The games and decisions had nothing to do with each other. I'm not acting like the Colts situation was a one series at all, all I was talking about was the Texans. And that Jauron made a decision because it was the Texans, who we could stop. IF it were a team like the Colts, we wouldn't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatPatPatSack Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 You're totally ignoring the fact that Jauron knew the Texans would be backed up deep. He also knew that they would be forced to run on first and second down because of the time and 2:00 warning. If you know a team is going to play conservative and run deep in their own zone on at least first and second and probably third (although they stupidly passed) you can expect your defense to stop them if they need to, and they did. Their rushes in the second half up until that point were 34, 1, 3, 3, -3, -3. 844177[/snapback] not too sure that passing was a stupid decision for the Txans. After all the guy had just gone 22 of 23. That is as close to a sure thing as you get. Certainly a reasonable call. 22 of 23 all for positive yards is fairly perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyF Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 not too sure that passing was a stupid decision for the Txans. After all the guy had just gone 22 of 23. That is as close to a sure thing as you get. Certainly a reasonable call. 22 of 23 all for positive yards is fairly perfect. 844279[/snapback] Gees also they made at least one first down on 8 of 9 possessions leading up to the final drive. Amazing that on that final one, they blew it.... It's only the fact that Houston did not convert that you all have an argument. It was a huge gamble to punt, that by all the stats should not have worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Not to be overlooked is Parrish charging a very awkward punt and making a running catch in traffic to save some important yards and preserve field position. 843380[/snapback] Very gutsy play. THAT is what they hired Roscoe to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I think it was a bad decision as well. Sure Houston isn't Indy, but the Jets & Lions aren't Indy either and we couldn't get a step on our last defensive possession in those games. As far as the hypothetical scenerio of going for it & not making it: "even if they stop 'em 3&out" - there is no "even if" - either we force the 3&out or the game is over. Much better off taking your shot on 4th&4 which is not a terribly low % play. 844138[/snapback] I agree. The only way I view it differently is that with a 4th & 4 if you don't make it then the game is over. However with a Punt, you give yourself 4 downs to stop them and get the ball back...... As far as people saying our defense played well in the 2nd half with zero points...that is not a valid argument for the punting. The Texans needed a 1st down to win the game...they did not need to score and our Defense did allow about 100 yards to the Texans in the 2nd half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Gees also they made at least one first down on 8 of 9 possessions leading up to the final drive. Amazing that on that final one, they blew it.... It's only the fact that Houston did not convert that you all have an argument. It was a huge gamble to punt, that by all the stats should not have worked. 844319[/snapback] That is why stats are B.S. when the game is on the line. The fact is, it did work this week, and it might work again in the future. You just never know.... We made the plays , they didn't, on to jacksonville.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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