meazza Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Talk to the playcallers. 833885[/snapback] A good QB leads his team. His team has confidence in him and plays well for him. JP doesn't have the confidence of his teammates and doesn't lead the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patience Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 A good QB leads his team. His team has confidence in him and plays well for him. JP doesn't have the confidence of his teammates and doesn't lead the team. 834232[/snapback] How can he be confident when he knows defenders will be in his face after a couple seconds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 How can he be confident when he knows defenders will be in his face after a couple seconds? 834236[/snapback] How does quarter back confidence keep tackles and tight ends from wiffing on defensive ends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackur Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 How can he be confident when he knows defenders will be in his face after a couple seconds? 834236[/snapback] maybe he should stop sitting back there waitin for them to hit him and then drop the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 How can he be confident when he knows defenders will be in his face after a couple seconds? 834236[/snapback] I don't know. I'm not a head coach. What I do know is that I saw the same sh-- in Dallas and a change in QB solved the problem. We won't make the playoffs with this QB e basta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patience Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 How does quarter back confidence keep tackles and tight ends from wiffing on defensive ends? 834238[/snapback] It doesn't, that was my point. You think JP doesn't know defenders will be all over him, before he can fully drop back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Thanks for helping to prove my point. Green Bay had only two TD drives against Minnesota, one was only 22 yards after Brad Johnson fumbled and the other on a 82 yard pass on the third play of the drive. Clearly, Minnesota did not force Favre to drive the length of the field and they lost. 834084[/snapback] Favre today: 24/42 347yds 2 TDs 0 Ints, ummmm yeah. Don't bother trying to present an argument. He is incapable of formulating a response and instead will spout off more incomprehensible garbage. He is truly a moron. 834147[/snapback] Kinda like folks who blindly defend the worst starting QB in the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patience Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 I don't know. I'm not a head coach. What I do know is that I saw the same sh-- in Dallas and a change in QB solved the problem. We won't make the playoffs with this QB e basta. 834241[/snapback] Fix the O-Line = Fix the problem. The success of the offense DEPENDS on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 It doesn't, that was my point. You think JP doesn't know defenders will be all over him, before he can fully drop back? 834245[/snapback] I wasn't arguing your post, I was adding a post script to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 No he is a moron because he does not support arguments with evidence. When presented with evidence to contradict his garbage, he does not respond and instead starts with his "Loseman..." crap. Losman has not been good. He has been decidely average. I can point to stats, but I doubt you will accept that. This week, like most weeks, the Bills were in position to win the game in the 4th quarter with Losman doing just enough to keep the game close and just enough not to give the game away. That is pretty average in my book. 834213[/snapback] So you are saying that he is a game manager? Only one game manager in NFL history has won a Super Bowl and Trent Dilfer happened to have the best defense in the NFL when he did it. You can point to stats, but I don't think that you will find it there. There is a huge difference between having a QB that can win football games, and QBs that "don't lose" football games. Doing just enough doesn't cut it when it is your job to make big plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackur Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 It doesn't, that was my point. You think JP doesn't know defenders will be all over him, before he can fully drop back? 834245[/snapback] I dont think so, or he would be mobile and looking to avoid it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 A good QB leads his team. His team has confidence in him and plays well for him. JP doesn't have the confidence of his teammates and doesn't lead the team. 834232[/snapback] I never thought I would see the day when I would possibly say this, but.. Meazza is right, I agree with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 What makes him a moron...because he thinks JP Losman sucks and you don't? The bottom line is that we are not winning and, fair or not, when teams don't win the QB typically shoulders the blame. It is quite easy for us morons to come up with reasons why JP stinks. Without blaming the offensive line or the coaches, can you please provide me with evidence that he is any good? 834202[/snapback] Actually nothing makes him a moron.....he does it all of his own volition. Just read his posts..... BTW, to conclude that JP is....not is probably, or maybe, or looks like....but is never going to make it when there are so many variables involved is IMO moronic. Again I state that most JP supporters are simply saying that assessing him is very difficult due to the negative factors around him. Anyone who actually believes he is 'good' at this point is obviously deluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNW_Bills_Fan Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 How does quarter back confidence keep tackles and tight ends from wiffing on defensive ends? 834238[/snapback] Levy and DJ know the problem and you will see it addressed in the offseason. Bill Polien (sp) and Levy built a great offence of line in the early 90's look for MArv to do it again. Especially after this season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackur Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Fix the O-Line = Fix the problem. The success of the offense DEPENDS on it. 834250[/snapback] ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patience Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 I dont think so, or he would be mobile and looking to avoid it 834253[/snapback] Whatever happened to that famed mobility, anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patience Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 ok 834259[/snapback] Name me a good offense that didn't / doesn't have a good-great offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Favre today: 24/42 347yds 2 TDs 0 Ints, ummmm yeah. 834248[/snapback] Yet he scored touchdowns on no long drives. What's to argue with? The Bills made him go the length of the field, and four separate times he made drive killing mistakes. He put up big yards last week, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Fix the O-Line = Fix the problem. The success of the offense DEPENDS on it. 834250[/snapback] Is there the possibility that the O-Line will play better for a better QB? Why is it other teams can plug in players and manage to get a decent passing game while we require the top 5 OL in the league before our passing/running game can be consistent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 I never thought I would see the day when I would possibly say this, but.. Meazza is right, I agree with him 834254[/snapback] I know my football, I'm just not the type to start looking for stats to prove my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Name me a good offense that didn't / doesn't have a good-great offensive line. 834267[/snapback] Define good. KC lost 2 of their best OL and yet Damon Huard is playing half decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Is there the possibility that the O-Line will play better for a better QB? Why is it other teams can plug in players and manage to get a decent passing game while we require the top 5 OL in the league before our passing/running game can be consistent? 834272[/snapback] Gawdammit, stop making sense. I find it disturbing that I have to keep agreeing with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 So you are saying that he is a game manager? Only one game manager in NFL history has won a Super Bowl and Trent Dilfer happened to have the best defense in the NFL when he did it. You can point to stats, but I don't think that you will find it there. There is a huge difference between having a QB that can win football games, and QBs that "don't lose" football games. Doing just enough doesn't cut it when it is your job to make big plays. 834252[/snapback] Where did I say he is a game manager? I said he was average. He's made his share of big plays and mistakes but overall he is neither winning nor losing games for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNW_Bills_Fan Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Yet he scored touchdowns on no long drives. What's to argue with? The Bills made him go the length of the field, and four separate times he made drive killing mistakes. He put up big yards last week, too. 834270[/snapback] Hall of Fame veteran with a decent line a veteran RB and a couple good WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Where did I say he is a game manager? I said he was average. He's made his share of big plays and mistakes but overall he is neither winning nor losing games for the Bills. 834277[/snapback] Which is the problem. How many teams won a superbowl let alone were consistent without a QB winning them games. Not everyone could build a defence like the Ravens or the Bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patience Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Is there the possibility that the O-Line will play better for a better QB? Why is it other teams can plug in players and manage to get a decent passing game while we require the top 5 OL in the league before our passing/running game can be consistent? 834272[/snapback] I didn't say make it top 5. I said fix it, which means make it better than what it is now. Another problem I have with it...only 2 of the 5 starters on the line are draftees, and one is an undrafted free agent. Isn't that a bit unsettling?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Is there the possibility that the O-Line will play better for a better QB? Why is it other teams can plug in players and manage to get a decent passing game while we require the top 5 OL in the league before our passing/running game can be consistent? 834272[/snapback] Kind of like how the Dallas Cowboys offensive line got better when they changed QBs. Forget it, it is a lost cause. So many people are holding out hope because if JP is not the answer, we will be screwed for at least another 3-5 years. Desperation has a funny way of clouding peoples judgement. Any JP apologists should ask themselves one question. Would they bet their houses on JP turning out to be a good NFL QB. My guess is that most would say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Yet he scored touchdowns on no long drives. What's to argue with? The Bills made him go the length of the field, and four separate times he made drive killing mistakes. He put up big yards last week, too. 834270[/snapback] On their second TD Favre started at his own 3 yard line, a 97 yard drive. Don't let facts slow you down, you're on a roll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Is there the possibility that the O-Line will play better for a better QB? Why is it other teams can plug in players and manage to get a decent passing game while we require the top 5 OL in the league before our passing/running game can be consistent? 834272[/snapback] I don't know.... What I do know is that just because some teams can do something....or have success doing something....it does not mean that all can do it or have success with it. You could just as easily say..... "Teams that have total garbage for an OL don't ever seem to be able to do anything consistant in either passing or running games regardless of who they put in.".....i.e. Raiders, Cardinals, Bills, Browns, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Where did I say he is a game manager? I said he was average. He's made his share of big plays and mistakes but overall he is neither winning nor losing games for the Bills. 834277[/snapback] You just did. Average QBs that don't win or lose games are called game managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 On their second TD Favre started at his own 3 yard line, a 97 yard drive. Don't let facts slow you down, you're on a roll! 834286[/snapback] That drive had 3 plays. 82 of those yards came on a slant to Donald Driver who took it the rest of the way. Nice, half-assed attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 That drive had 3 plays. 82 of those yards came on a slant to Donald Driver who took it the rest of the way. Nice, half-assed attempt. 834295[/snapback] Ohhhh, so that wasn't a Farve led drive? My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 I didn't say make it top 5. I said fix it, which means make it better than what it is now. Another problem I have with it...only 2 of the 5 starters on the line are draftees, and one is an undrafted free agent. Isn't that a bit unsettling?? 834281[/snapback] Yes it is unsettling, but I would be willing to bet that you put one of the NFL's elite QB's behind this line and they would get better production out of this offence. Of course I can't prove it, I'm willing to think that the OL would play better in front of QB that doesn't look like he's a frightened child when he's holding on to the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 I don't know....What I do know is that just because some teams can do something....or have success doing something....it does not mean that all can do it or have success with it. You could just as easily say..... "Teams that have total garbage for an OL don't ever seem to be able to do anything consistant in either passing or running games regardless of who they put in.".....i.e. Raiders, Cardinals, Bills, Browns, etc 834287[/snapback] Well, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Browns go get a couple of decent OL this year. Like I said, I'm no Head Coach, there are many things you must analyze when you look at the performance of a QB but something tells me that JP is not the answer, and I was hoping by this point, that I would have been proven wrong. But there is still time, ... who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Ohhhh, so that wasn't a Farve led drive? My bad. 834299[/snapback] I was saying, and still am saying this: "Absolutely not, it was because Brett Favre has proven that when you force him to drive the length of the field and string together 12 - 14 plays he will often make a mistake and turn the ball over." You still have not shown that Favre put together a 12 - 14 play drive and still score a TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripes Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Again I state that most JP supporters are simply saying that assessing him is very difficult due to the negative factors around him. Anyone who actually believes he is 'good' at this point is obviously deluded. 834256[/snapback] And what better way to assess JP's shortcomings then try Craig Nall the next few weeks to see if he also can only throw under 100 yards a game in the same laboratory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 And what better way to assess JP's shortcomings then try Craig Nall the next few weeks to see if he also can only throw under 100 yards a game in the same laboratory? 834319[/snapback] I find it hard to believe that a half decent QB would be our 3rd string backup. Seriously, I doubt the solution lies in our reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 I find it hard to believe that a half decent QB would be our 3rd string backup. Seriously, I doubt the solution lies in our reserves. 834328[/snapback] Exactly. If he can't beat out Holcomb then he probably is not the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjwbills Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 It's the OL and the playcalling thats killing this team. 833895[/snapback] Yup, you got it. Let the kid throw downfield. Was that a TE blocking Freeney on that 3rd down that cost us the game? ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 And what better way to assess JP's shortcomings then try Craig Nall the next few weeks to see if he also can only throw under 100 yards a game in the same laboratory? 834319[/snapback] This isn't a democratic thing. Just because you don't see how good/bad Nall is in practice & think "golly, we can't do much worse" does not mean that the coaches don't see how he is in practice. Nall is not even 2nd string. How do you think he has looks in practice if he can't even surplant Holcomb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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