Rico Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 for JP to show he belongs in this league. Go get it done kid, I'm pulling for ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 And there are 8 more games for the REST of the players to show THEY belong in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 And there are 8 more games for the REST of the players to show THEY belong in this league. 828590[/snapback] Amen... at least for the ones who haven't already proved they belong. I'll give McCargo a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Losing McCargo sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbills17 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 for JP to show he belongs in this league. Go get it done kid, I'm pulling for ya! 828558[/snapback] And also 8 more games to show us that we lose _nothing_ with A-Train in there vs. WM. Here it is now, A-Train will be every bit the complete RB Willis is, I say better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Yup A-train is the man, why didn't we all see it in traing camp when most where taking that other guy over him to be JP's Backup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 for JP to show he belongs in this league. Go get it done kid, I'm pulling for ya! 828558[/snapback] I think that this is the correct attitude to take regarding the real world issue of JP development and is a key point (though it is not the same thing at all) regarding the prospect of Bills develop as a team. As we have seen with QBs such as Brad Johnson, a player can be a total loser as a QB not only once but even twice as he was cut loose by two teams as inadequate, before a QB becomes capable of being the QB for an SB winner. Its great when your QB develops into a John Elway or Joe Montana capable of carrying a team on his own broad shoulders (or athletic legs or great mind and heart in these two cases) seemingly on his own. However, even this judgment of QB achievement is an illusion since it really was the Brocos as a TEAM which found the contributions of runners such as Terrel Davis essential to turning the Elway led team into an SB winner and the prescence of all-world WRs such as Rice and Clark that was essential to the 9ers to have a winning team/ JP is is not way capable of bringing the Bills to an SB win or even berth on his own as an athlete, but who cares because no one is. Is JP capable of being an adequate enough QB to be part of the Bills even making the playoffs not to mention an SB berth/win? Not at this point at all. However, he does have a lot of raw tools and it certainly is a real world possibility that he can develop (even fairly quickly) into a QB adequate to the task of being a key part of a competitive team. I hink 8 games is easily enough time for him to achieve that level of play, as it is also quite possible for him to achieve that level even if he sucks the rest of this year and develops in the off-season. The hard thing for us, is that what it might take for JP to actually develop is to in fact fail and get cut by the Bills. He has enough talent from what I have seen of him in college and as a Bill, that he might need the wake-up call and maturing experience of getting cut (like a Brad Johnson) before he finally gets it together. I hope not, but this may be the case, as it appears a lot of his development has been poorly done his first two years as really the Bills situation under TD behind Bledsoe needed more immediate output than JP was capable of. His first uear development was not good as it was cut short by injury, but it was also not bad as he needed some serious classroom time to learn the prio game after doing well simply improvising with his athleticism while running for his life behind the Tulane Nonffense. He did show some progress when he finally played from his debacle in NE in his mop-up performances in his rookie year for bledsoe. Last year however, was a total loser in his development as only TD was c ommitted to him using last year as an extended pre-season while the fans, MM, the vets on the team (and most important it turned out as TD got canned) Ralph wanted the season to produce as many wins and potentially a playoff berth if possible. This year's JP development has seen progreess over his goshawful performance last year (which is not saying much at all), but basically it is like going back to square one as the Fairchild has had to slowly focus on him learning to go through his progressions and he makes typical rookie errors like focusing in only on the receiver he has decuded to throe to and that tips off even a moderately skilled DB to look for the ball. Ass to that failings like JP not protecting the ball when he is hit, his pocket prescence radar failing to work well at all when he is focused on whethe the reeiver is free and other issues and it has not been pretty at all these last four games. However, folks really strike me as panicking a bit when they want to write off JP now. His problems are serious and they are real. However, he has also shown some good basics and talents such as: 1. He can learn and make progress as seen when he got overwhelmed when thrown into the NE game in his first appearance, but he did make real progress in his 2004 season mop-up appearnance which caused TD to stupidly give him the starting job last year. He went from being overwhelmed against NE, to simply being befuddled when he got a delay of game penalty in his second game, to being in control but ineffective when he had to take a TO in his third game, to being a reasonable adjunct but not a real leader when he handed off to WM several times in a row for a TD in his fourth game, to finally showing some athletic skills (though still not NFL level control) when he led the team to a TD in his fifth performance. He can show progress which is good, he simply has a long way to go. 2. He is a teachable athlete. Jauron and Fairchild have really reined him in this year and called a conservative game which does not call on him to win the game himself. In our initial games this season until opposing teams got some tape on us and we began to show tendencies, he was quite successful at running this reined in team. He produced a good QB rating, no turnovers, and most important some Ws against bad teams like Miami and at home against MN. He also kept us competitive against NE up there and was productive in a losing cause against a bad NYJ team. He can change his game and make good pre-play reads. However, as we now face better opponents and HCs with time to look at tape and prepare for us as we show tendencies, his failings are showing big time. It remains to be seem whether he can take another step up and be able to make adjustments and do counter reads to the opponents knowing what we are gonna do and how we are gonna do it. I fear he will merely go back to the bad habit of forcing it and running for his life but we will see. Yet, it is clear to this observer that he is a very good athlete as seen on plays whre he got flushed from the pocket on one play and scrambled to his right and hit Teed for an improvised first down a few games back. As noted correctly by the commentators in the last game, one of the best things about Favre was that when he scrambled he kept looking downfield and made passes and plays. JP ha shown the ability to do that and if his receivers hang in there when the play is busted and make good adjustments we can be very good. At any rate, the losses to NYJ at home and not beating Det on the road (and not even being competitive against NE at home) have effectively ended any whistful playoff hopes this year even if mathematically we are still in it. 8 games is more than enough time (and even next season actually) for JP to still develop into an adequate QB. I do not know if we will want to take that long for this to happen as we already see a lot of whining on TSW to simply cut him as folks would prefer to go the doubtful to be much better route and no long term upside route of going to Holcomb. I hope that our coaching staff has the stomach to go through this learning curve cause it ain't gonna be pretty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbills17 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Yup A-train is the man, why didn't we all see it in traing camp when most where taking that other guy over him to be JP's Backup? 828616[/snapback] Umm, I've seen it for 2 years, and have been saying it as well. Outside of Willis while he was battling Travis for the #1 job, he has been a below-average RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 8 games is more than enough time (and even next season actually) for JP to still develop into an adequate QB. I do not know if we will want to take that long for this to happen as we already see a lot of whining on TSW to simply cut him as folks would prefer to go the doubtful to be much better route and no long term upside route of going to Holcomb. 828653[/snapback] If he doesn't show something in the last 8 games, next season for him is no longer an option... not with the Bills anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 If he doesn't show something in the last 8 games, next season for him is no longer an option... not with the Bills anyways. 828725[/snapback] We'll see. Reality will make the difference here. If he does not produce the next 8 games I still would be reluctant to write him off because of his contract, but it would make me a lot more serious about trying to get a QB in free agency because a failure by him to progress in his last 8 means to me we need to look harder elsewhere for our QB of the future. I think even in this bad case it would be the height of panic to cut him as there are just too many cases of bad QBs procing to get it and becoming adequate and even good in Brad Johnson's case. However, there are even more cases of potential QBs turning out not to get it and they never produce. JP could easily be one of these victims. He is not injury prone like RJ and he does not have terminal happy feet like TC and he tries as hard as he can unlike Hobert. However, the proof is in the pudding and he simply has not gotten it done as of yet. My guess is that if he fails there are several things we will do: 1. Holcomb is too old to be our QB of the future but though it is unlikely that Nall has the iright stuff he is the right age at least. His good production as a mop-up for Favre proves little and actually since the Pack was willing to let him go they did not seem to judge him able to make the jump. However, if JP continues to falter, i think we move Nall up to #2 on the depth chart and give him some some limited reps with starters in practice so he can show a little of what he may be able to do and to send a final warning shot across JP's bow. Again the reality of whether JP responds and/or how good Nall is with better players determines what we do. 2, If JP falters this off-season there is no reason contractually to cut him and it would be stupid INHO to do so. However, it becomes even more important to get another a vet QB in FA to compete with and likely supplant JP as starter next year. We'll have to see who is injured and what happens in the second half of the season to determine whom that might be or if it is necessary. However, if we want to spend big bucks we are looking for the 2007 version of Drew Brees and if we do not want to spend big bucks then one is looking for a Harrington. Daunte Culpepper was the middlin altenative in 2007 of such QBs. Its still too early to tell whom it might be (at this point last year it was unclear whether any of these three would be available or might even be reasonable choices) but we are already seeing potential candidates like Brian Leftwhich to fall into one of these roles. 3. I do not think that a draft pick will be an option such a Brady Quinn or any rookie QB as that player would simply commit us to yet another development project who since this team is quite unlikely to be even as good as Pitts was last year means we would be on a 2-3 year development track until this team wins with a rookie QB in 2008 or 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 We'll see. Reality will make the difference here. If he does not produce the next 8 games I still would be reluctant to write him off because of his contract, but it would make me a lot more serious about trying to get a QB in free agency because a failure by him to progress in his last 8 means to me we need to look harder elsewhere for our QB of the future. I think even in this bad case it would be the height of panic to cut him as there are just too many cases of bad QBs procing to get it and becoming adequate and even good in Brad Johnson's case. However, there are even more cases of potential QBs turning out not to get it and they never produce. JP could easily be one of these victims. He is not injury prone like RJ and he does not have terminal happy feet like TC and he tries as hard as he can unlike Hobert. However, the proof is in the pudding and he simply has not gotten it done as of yet. My guess is that if he fails there are several things we will do: 1. Holcomb is too old to be our QB of the future but though it is unlikely that Nall has the iright stuff he is the right age at least. His good production as a mop-up for Favre proves little and actually since the Pack was willing to let him go they did not seem to judge him able to make the jump. However, if JP continues to falter, i think we move Nall up to #2 on the depth chart and give him some some limited reps with starters in practice so he can show a little of what he may be able to do and to send a final warning shot across JP's bow. Again the reality of whether JP responds and/or how good Nall is with better players determines what we do. 2, If JP falters this off-season there is no reason contractually to cut him and it would be stupid INHO to do so. However, it becomes even more important to get another a vet QB in FA to compete with and likely supplant JP as starter next year. We'll have to see who is injured and what happens in the second half of the season to determine whom that might be or if it is necessary. However, if we want to spend big bucks we are looking for the 2007 version of Drew Brees and if we do not want to spend big bucks then one is looking for a Harrington. Daunte Culpepper was the middlin altenative in 2007 of such QBs. Its still too early to tell whom it might be (at this point last year it was unclear whether any of these three would be available or might even be reasonable choices) but we are already seeing potential candidates like Brian Leftwhich to fall into one of these roles. 3. I do not think that a draft pick will be an option such a Brady Quinn or any rookie QB as that player would simply commit us to yet another development project who since this team is quite unlikely to be even as good as Pitts was last year means we would be on a 2-3 year development track until this team wins with a rookie QB in 2008 or 2009. 828760[/snapback] I'm not necessarily saying cut him... he may have some trade value. Maybe not a Day 1 pick, but we might be able to get back into the 5th round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Yup A-train is the man, why didn't we all see it in traing camp when most where taking that other guy over him to be JP's Backup? 828616[/snapback] Heck there was alot of talk as to why A-Train even made the team. People were all upset that Shaud Williams and Lionel Gates didn't grab the #2 spot. I for one am glad to see him kicking some tail, he really plays his heart out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Heck there was alot of talk as to why A-Train even made the team. People were all upset that Shaud Williams and Lionel Gates didn't grab the #2 spot. I for one am glad to see him kicking some tail, he really plays his heart out. 828776[/snapback] I have always liked Anthony Thomas, he is a tough runner. He has to stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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