John from Riverside Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 in Bills history.... - We have a decent pick in every round and lots of them - The draft is well known to be deep - We didn't do a whole lot in Free Agency - Our owner isn't getting any younger This team is at a crossroads again.....they need players who can produce in this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30dive Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 For good or bad that just about sums it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooldudeav Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Well, it is sure going to be more exciting than last year's draft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 I don't care if this is the best draft for centuries, or the worst draft ever, weither the Bills are Rebuilding, or putting the final touches onto a SB team, I still hope the coaches have done their homework and draft the Best Players Available that suit what the team needs and can come in and be good players for this team. This is what they are paid to do and their jobs. So yes, I hope they are working for their paychecks and doing their jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Well, it is sure going to be more exciting than last year's draft! 666210[/snapback] What, you didn't enjoy the "meet our #1 pick" press conference with J.P.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I'm usually not for dramatic statements like "most important draft in team history", but you're right, this IS a very important draft for the Bills. Marv needs to prove that he can draft. If the future of the NFL favors big market teams in free agency, then the Bills must become dominant in drafting in order to compete. In an ideal world, Marv becomes the Billy Beane of football and is able to consistently uncover diamonds in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 The Bills need to become a Moneyball team in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 What's a drft? Just kidding; I also think this will be a key moment for the new regime... Alas, the grades will be incomplete until sometime around 2008.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Nah, if you follow college football, you'll know whether Marv can draft pretty much right away. I didn't have to wait three years to know that Mike Williams was going to be a bust, that drafting Losman or any QB before an offensive line was built and in place was bad news, that Kelsay and Denney wouldn't be able to rush the passer, that Tim Anderson wasn't worth a 3rd rounder, that Eric King was going to be a very good nickelback for us, that Lee Evans was the real deal, that Travis Henry was going to become a good RB (unfortunatley, I didn't know he liked young girls and was stupid), that Peerless Price was good value in the second round. I've been wrong as well. I thought Josh Reed was going to become a very good receiver because he was absolutely dominant in college. But for the most part, watch a lot of college football, and you'll know who's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Nah, if you follow college football, you'll know whether Marv can draft pretty much right away. I didn't have to wait three years to know that Mike Williams was going to be a bust, that drafting Losman or any QB before an offensive line was built and in place was bad news, that Kelsay and Denney wouldn't be able to rush the passer, that Tim Anderson wasn't worth a 3rd rounder, that Eric King was going to be a very good nickelback for us, that Lee Evans was the real deal, that Travis Henry was going to become a good RB (unfortunatley, I didn't know he liked young girls and was stupid), that Peerless Price was good value in the second round. I've been wrong as well. I thought Josh Reed was going to become a very good receiver because he was absolutely dominant in college. But for the most part, watch a lot of college football, and you'll know who's good. 666633[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Nah, if you follow college football, you'll know whether Marv can draft pretty much right away. I didn't have to wait three years to know that Mike Williams was going to be a bust, that drafting Losman or any QB before an offensive line was built and in place was bad news, that Kelsay and Denney wouldn't be able to rush the passer, that Tim Anderson wasn't worth a 3rd rounder, that Eric King was going to be a very good nickelback for us, that Lee Evans was the real deal, that Travis Henry was going to become a good RB (unfortunatley, I didn't know he liked young girls and was stupid), that Peerless Price was good value in the second round. I've been wrong as well. I thought Josh Reed was going to become a very good receiver because he was absolutely dominant in college. But for the most part, watch a lot of college football, and you'll know who's good. 666633[/snapback] One can certainly know whether a player is or is going to be a good athlete, but not necessarily whether this good athlete is going to be a good pro. From taking folks like Joey Harrington with the #3 choice (not to mention our own Mike Williams with the #4), to the sharp debate which led to Peyton Manning being selected just ahead of miscreant Ryan Leaf, to one of the best players in pro football Tom Brady lasting until the 6th round, the draft seems to be little more than a coinf flip in terms of the outcomes for particular players taken at particular times (which defines this Un-American restraint of trade called the draft). The amazing thing is that these spotty results are achieved by people who have demonstrated enough proficiency at the mechanics of this that someone pays them. These folks achieve these moderate results having far more real information than we amateur watchers can gather such as real medical reports and evaluations which we do not have and also interviewing and getting to measure these men as people which we never do. It actually is quite hilarious to see anyone on Internet boards claim that achieving good results in this is simple. Folks do get their picks right from time to time, but based on the results achieved in the real world, these "right" answers appear more likely to be coincidences than any indication of mastery of this easy task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Please. The management of professional sports teams is completely retarded. I can write you a book about this but don't have the time to do so now. Rambling on and on and on is more your thing anyway. Just look at what happened in baseball where the game is now being revolutionized by so-called "stat geeks" like Bill James, who started doing Moneyball-type analysis about 20 years ago. Baseball teams are JUST learning now how to draft, e.g. avoid high school pitchers, and what kinds of players are really valuable, e.g. players that understand the strike zone and can take a pitch. Nobody in the NBA has any clue what the hell they're doing except for maybe Jerry West. Just read Bill Simmons and you'll understand what I mean. And in the NFL, nobody has been able to master the simple concept of risk management when drafting. Trust me, don't overrate management just because they have jobs. Joe Theisman has a job to analyze football games -- do you think his analysis is more reliable than your own? It's the same way with the folks who work for NFL teams. Many of them have jobs just b/c they've been "part of the game" for a long time. Whatever. The only thing that is laughable is when people actually put blind trust in their team's management. We WILL know right away with this draft whether this regime will succeed or not. I've said it before. If we're entering a new age in football where the high market teams can dominate the small market teams in free agency, then we better be able to draft very well to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Now I'm all worked up about the Bills drafting mistakes. Taking Mike Williams at #4 overall was just damn retarded. You basically have the veritable pick of the litter except for three players, and you end up with a freaking fatass weight/motivation risk. Arggh, that's the kind of stupid risk management decisions that I'm talking about. You also NEVER take a QB unless you have a line in place to aid his development. You build teams from the inside out instead of the outside in because skill players are way more dependent on trench players for their well-being and success than the other way around. I know this, you know this, but Tom Donahoe didn't know this. I'm supposed to respect him just because he got paid to do his job. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Please. The management of professional sports teams is completely retarded. I can write you a book about this but don't have the time to do so now. Rambling on and on and on is more your thing anyway. Just look at what happened in baseball where the game is now being revolutionized by so-called "stat geeks" like Bill James, who started doing Moneyball-type analysis about 20 years ago. Baseball teams are JUST learning now how to draft, e.g. avoid high school pitchers, and what kinds of players are really valuable, e.g. players that understand the strike zone and can take a pitch. Nobody in the NBA has any clue what the hell they're doing except for maybe Jerry West. Just read Bill Simmons and you'll understand what I mean. And in the NFL, nobody has been able to master the simple concept of risk management when drafting. Trust me, don't overrate management just because they have jobs. Joe Theisman has a job to analyze football games -- do you think his analysis is more reliable than your own? It's the same way with the folks who work for NFL teams. Many of them have jobs just b/c they've been "part of the game" for a long time. Whatever. The only thing that is laughable is when people actually put blind trust in their team's management. We WILL know right away with this draft whether this regime will succeed or not. I've said it before. If we're entering a new age in football where the high market teams can dominate the small market teams in free agency, then we better be able to draft very well to keep up. 666655[/snapback] I actually agree with most of what you say about many (in fact most) professional clearly being retarded judging by the way they draft and appear to try to build teams. Rather than overstate the competence of NFL draft professionals, I simply state that even with critical information about making judgments like in depth injury and medical assessment and an ability to see for real, interview and meet draftees they still screw up and draft folks like Mamula, MW, Leaf, Wickey Williams, and a plethora of others far too high and pass on opportunites to draft folks like Brady, Montana and a plethora of other great players. I would not even challenge your contention that most of these folks are retarded, but even you have to admit that it is quite impressive that these retarded folks manage to get someone to pay them tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars when they are retarded. Its really quite impressive what retards are able to do fiscally here. The main thing I would really disagree with from you thoughts is when you say: The only thing that is laughable is when people actually put blind trust in their team's management. Actually, though the efforts of many NFL professionals is in fact quite laughable, it is not nearly as funny to this observer as the observations of many amateurs on the draft who appear to be legends in their own mind that such and such choice is a dead lock certainty, when virtually guaranteed they have no access to essential info even the retards screw up when they have it. One of the main reasons I feel comfortable going on and on in my posts is that I do not think at all that my views are better than the retards who run NFL teams. This game is fascinating to me exactly because I do not know what will happen next and because despite watching it enough and being fascinated by stats to come up with detailed theories, I am quite often wrong (in sports, my observation during the NBA draft that this Jordan kid did not look like much to me because at his height he was clearly a tweener too small to be a forward and too large to be a guard... hah). I get grins from folks who seem to be interested in the NFL because they claim they no everything or enough about it. If I knew what was going to happen next I would seriously run to go watch something that gave me the joy of learning new things. I have a tone of respect for retards who somehow find a way to make a living fooling around with a boys game, while the rest of us stiffs need to work for living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 You build teams from the inside out instead of the outside in because skill players are way more dependent on trench players for their well-being and success than the other way around. I know this, you know this, but Tom Donahoe didn't know this. I'm supposed to respect him just because he got paid to do his job. Please. 666658[/snapback] To be fair though, Donahoe did throw a #4 overall pick at his offensive line and a flurry of picks at high-motor white dudes on the defensive line. Of course, this didn't amount to anything. Donahoe seemed to victimize himself here. By going for the huge splash with his wheeler dealer offseason headline grabbing moves, going for the slow and steady picks just wasn't part of his mental make-up. Donahoe patterned himself after GMs like Bobby Beathard (another "genius" and "real football guy" who flamed out spectacularly in San Diego). But, if one looks at New England (or, for that matter, the old Bills before Donahoe), it wasn't the "Wow!" trades that built those teams. They had a vision and a master plan and they steadily accreted the players with the right talents to make their plans unfold. Some of it is luck, sure. But, one can make their own luck. Swinging for the fences on every pitch, well, that doesn't win a lot of ball games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Yes, general managers and other league management types are paid well. Good for them, I can respect that much. As for access to information that we don't have, I'm sure that is beneficial in some cases but can be detrimental in others. Maybe part of the problem of draft failures is paralysis by overanalysis. Ultimately, the most important aspect to predicting future professional success on Sundays is how they played in games on Saturday. "One of the main reasons I feel comfortable going on and on in my posts is that I do not think at all that my views are better than the retards who run NFL teams." Neither do I, as that's an irrelevant exaggeration that doesn't describe any poster here. What I do believe I have is knowledgeable opinions about football players that I've watched and I'm not afraid to state them strongly. I don't feel like hedging every comment I make with "in my opinion" -- I just figure most folks would assume that I'm not stating fact, just opinion. Ultimately, if Eric King doesn't turn out to be a good nickelback, or if Paul Pinegar doesn't suck, then my opinions will be disregarded. That's fine with me. "This game is fascinating to me exactly because I do not know what will happen next" Except that if the Bills draft AJ Hawk, that would set the team back, right? Obviously I understand that is just your opinion (and a ridiculous one, I think). But I point it out because I don't think you're any more modest than anyone here. You may carry a pretense that you are, though. And you're wordier than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 To be fair though, Donahoe did throw a #4 overall pick at his offensive line and a flurry of picks at high-motor white dudes on the defensive line. Of course, this didn't amount to anything. 666675[/snapback] True. I do think overall he didn't spend enough picks on the lines, though. I know many of us questioned his accuracy in both player quality AND position choice for many of his draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 To be fair though, Donahoe did throw a #4 overall pick at his offensive line and a flurry of picks at high-motor white dudes on the defensive line. Of course, this didn't amount to anything. Donahoe seemed to victimize himself here. By going for the huge splash with his wheeler dealer offseason headline grabbing moves, going for the slow and steady picks just wasn't part of his mental make-up. Donahoe patterned himself after GMs like Bobby Beathard (another "genius" and "real football guy" who flamed out spectacularly in San Diego). But, if one looks at New England (or, for that matter, the old Bills before Donahoe), it wasn't the "Wow!" trades that built those teams. They had a vision and a master plan and they steadily accreted the players with the right talents to make their plans unfold. Some of it is luck, sure. But, one can make their own luck. Swinging for the fences on every pitch, well, that doesn't win a lot of ball games. 666675[/snapback] The thing that made the Pats in my view were two events which occured in 2001 leading to their first SB win: 1, They did build a team in the Belicheck mold and according to his plan, but the draft was merely one part of doing this and actually less important in my view to other means of acquisition. It really is amazing that they signed 15 players or about a third of the team that won their first SB after the June 2001 cuts. He did a great job of getting his kind of player from cut and vets deemed washed up because it is far easier to tell what you are getting with these vets rather than the virtual crapshoot which is the NFL draft. In fact Nelicheck seemed to realize what a crapshoot the draft is and routinely loads up on picks because he knows that though us fans get excited about various choices, most of them deserve to be and are going to be cut immeidately and within a couple of years (as signing bonuses demand) of making the team. 2. The best thing that happened to NE in there first SB run was Lewis with the Jets collapsing Bledsoe's lung. The team was 0-2 under Bledsoe and as best as I can tell would likely have missed the playoffs under his QB work if he had remained healthy. Instead, with Bledsoe out and the young Brady (whom BB made a great pick for him after passing on arguably the best player in the league for five straight ounds with multiple picks in several rounda) in this team became a TEAM and with Bledsoe actually doing a classy and outstanding job scholling Brady while he was hurt, coming in to sub for an injured Brady in a must-win game and playing QB in the majority of that game and throwing the winning TD, and even more amazingly in this TO driven world gracefully giving up the starting job with nary a foul word when Brady came back. In a significant way BB made his own luck by picking Brady, but he really was lucky IMHO to win his first SB. It is ironic as if his team missed the playoffs, given the poor results he produced in his first HC go round in Cleveland and then his showing limited judgment or character by first signing to HC NYJ and then going back on his word to send them packing while he wandered up the coast to Beantown. I'm not sure that the NE team building strategy can be replicated and it is questionable whether one would want to beyond the odd fortune of winning it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Nah, if you follow college football, you'll know whether Marv can draft pretty much right away. I didn't have to wait three years to know that Mike Williams was going to be a bust, that drafting Losman or any QB before an offensive line was built and in place was bad news, that Kelsay and Denney wouldn't be able to rush the passer, that Tim Anderson wasn't worth a 3rd rounder, that Eric King was going to be a very good nickelback for us, that Lee Evans was the real deal, that Travis Henry was going to become a good RB (unfortunatley, I didn't know he liked young girls and was stupid), that Peerless Price was good value in the second round. I've been wrong as well. I thought Josh Reed was going to become a very good receiver because he was absolutely dominant in college. But for the most part, watch a lot of college football, and you'll know who's good. 666633[/snapback] You forgot to tell us whether or not you liked Parrish and Everett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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