CircleTheWagons Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Oh, I understand. It just shows they have all the other pieces of that puzzle in place. Because of that they could make the judgement that Maddox wasn't the answer. So they inserted Ben and he made a difference...but, NOT by being a star. But, by playing very well within the system. And, even when he didn't play well, they had the team to compensate. Had he played for the Bills, I'm sure we'd (at least many of us would) be calling for his head now. 632425[/snapback] So the Steelers were 6-10 in 2003 because of the QB, and 15-1 in 2004 because their QB didn't suck? Sounds like its pretty important to make sure you have a QB that doesn't suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 So the Steelers were 6-10 in 2003 because of the QB, and 15-1 in 2004 because their QB didn't suck? Sounds like its pretty important to make sure you have a QB that doesn't suck. 632454[/snapback] But the point is, you will NEVER know if your QB sucks if the rest of the team sucks. If we had Ben, the past year or two, I'm betting we'd be saying "he sucks". Fix the rest and let's see. My $ is on JP...if I'm wrong...well, we're a player away. If we spend the $ and draft positions on another QB (instead of using them on fixing the line, etc.), we'll be setting up THAT QB to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 But the point is, you will NEVER know if your QB sucks if the rest of the team sucks. If we had Ben, the past year or two, I'm betting we'd be saying "he sucks". Fix the rest and let's see. My $ is on JP...if I'm wrong...well, we're a player away. If we spend the $ and draft positions on another QB (instead of using them on fixing the line, etc.), we'll be setting up THAT QB to fail. 632559[/snapback] Fair enough - I'll be a happy Bills fan if we are only 1 player short next offseason, no matter what he plays. In my opinion the qb is so "pivotal" (sorry for the pun) that our offense might continue to look lost and we won't distinguish our 5-11 team last year with crappy talent from this year's talented 6-10 team that only needs a quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Are we going to give him 8 games before declaring him a bust like you did with Losman, or does he get the benefit of the doubt and get 9? 632311[/snapback] It depends on how bad those 9 games are....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 But the point is, you will NEVER know if your QB sucks if the rest of the team sucks. So, you still think that Cade McNown might be pretty good, eh? JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfarr00 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Did you watch the Super Bowl? Ben really took charge of that game..no? 632390[/snapback] I watched the playoffs and saw Ben dominate - 3 games. Performing/ not performing in one game doesn't give you a clear picture success JP has even looked good in a game before - clearly he not close yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 So, you still think that Cade McNown might be pretty good, eh? JDG 632638[/snapback] Who knows, for sure. But, I haven't seen enough of Cade to track his progress (or lack thereof). I've seen enough of JP to know he's learning and getting better. I've seen nothing in his game that can't be improved or corrected with playing time, protection and support. I'm not just OK with giving JP his real shot...I'm excited about it. I think he has MAJOR skills and a great attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Are we going to give him 8 games before declaring him a bust like you did with Losman, or does he get the benefit of the doubt and get 9? 632311[/snapback] No; as long as he passes for at least 10% and has a qb rating over 20, then we keep starting him. Only when his contract is up do we evaluate him. You have to give him time to develop, and he can't do it on the bench! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 The only position that matters is QB. I mean, look at all the Super Bowls that Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Michael Vick, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, etc. won single handedly. On the other hand, 6th rounders like Tom Brady clearly suck and blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCM Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 sooooo........ If you give JP pass protection, 3 quality receivers, a running game, a quality tight end, and a coach that doesn't have is head up his own @ss.....he should succeed? Tell me.....what QB in the NFL would not flourish given these circumstances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 lets draft a QB like SD did , then we will have 2 QBs , then in 2 years we can trade the one that gets hurt . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfarr00 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 lets draft a QB like SD did , then we will have 2 QBs , then in 2 years we can trade the one that gets hurt . 633120[/snapback] the difference being SD had 2 good ones and right now we don't have any. i'm not a fan of drafting a qb round 1, but some of you need to face facts with JPL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 the difference being SD had 2 good ones and right now we don't have any. i'm not a fan of drafting a qb round 1, but some of you need to face facts with JPL 633130[/snapback] why did they draft rivers , because DB sucked . DB had 3 years and JP 8 games . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfarr00 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 why did they draft rivers , because DB sucked . DB had 3 years and JP 8 games . 633134[/snapback] 2002 San Diego Chargers 16 16 526 320 60.8 3284 6.24 52 17 16 24/180 40 4 76.9 brees stats 2002 - 3200 yards 76.9 rating Although a down year in 03, clearly some potential Lossman - has shown the potential to ride out the season on the bench due to injury or poor performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 2002 San Diego Chargers 16 16 526 320 60.8 3284 6.24 52 17 16 24/180 40 4 76.9 brees stats 2002 - 3200 yards 76.9 rating Although a down year in 03, clearly some potential Lossman - has shown the potential to ride out the season on the bench due to injury or poor performance 633158[/snapback] so why did they draft rivers ( swap with NY ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatPatPatSack Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 2002 San Diego Chargers 16 16 526 320 60.8 3284 6.24 52 17 16 24/180 40 4 76.9 brees stats 2002 - 3200 yards 76.9 rating Although a down year in 03, clearly some potential Lossman - has shown the potential to ride out the season on the bench due to injury or poor performance 633158[/snapback] We do have to be pragmatic in our thinking however. Remember how EVERYONE like Drew Bledsoe when he came, but when he went it was - well it's Donahoes job to figure this out. So we see that the fickle crowd wants long term thinking, but win now. I know a few football guys we'll call them. When they are asked about JP, let's just say there is more doubt than certainty. And while the jury is still out on JP and will be for the next 5-7 years (ask Todd Collins about that!) when all is said and done: it's more likely that JP will not be the man for us next year, than he will be. Just playing the numbers. IF that is so, we need a quarterback. And we need to spend this year developing a new one in order to be competitive in 2007 and winning in 2008. We have a rare chance this year. This kind of chance only comes around once every 10 years for a franchise. If we ever want to "win it all" we will do that with a superstar at either QB or RB or both. If we want to be good, we can get there with intelligent drafting, and consistently good FA pickups. But if our objective is to bring home the trophy, we need a superlative QB. We have endlessly researched how you do this - draft, trade, Europe, etc. And while the secret to getting one remains just that, there is no question that pulling the trigger in the first 2 choices is an advantage that only a few teams get. As it has been said on this board, we only get one of these picks. So picking up a tight end is cool, and may be reall fine with a successful JPL, but if the odds are against JPL being lighting in a bottle, the practical choice is a stud QB. Now, I'm not sure I am in a position to evaluate just how good the Leinart, Cutler, Young crew is. Well, I know I'm not. BUT, if Marv, Tom and company pick a QB, I'm not going to puke in my Wheaties. I will see it for what it is. Lack of objective faith in the current QB roster, and a belief that the chosen one is truly lightning in a bottle. I don't need to remind anyone, that JPL was not ANYONES favorite QB in his draft. Upon reflection what was said was, he's almost as good as anyone. But on gameday on Sunday, almost ain't good enough. We need the best. If we get a chance to get the best, we are well served by getting it in the last chance we may get for the next 6-10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfarr00 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 so why did they draft rivers ( swap with NY ) 633168[/snapback] To make sure they could rob NY Giants of many draft pics and get the top rated qb of the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 If we draft a QB at 8.....I will literally throw my barbeque through my TV....... 632374[/snapback] Literally? I'm holding you to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlegm Alley Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 But if our objective is to bring home the trophy, we need a superlative QB. We have endlessly researched how you do this - draft, trade, Europe, etc. And while the secret to getting one remains just that, there is no question that pulling the trigger in the first 2 choices is an advantage that only a few teams get. As it has been said on this board, we only get one of these picks. So picking up a tight end is cool, and may be reall fine with a successful JPL, but if the odds are against JPL being lighting in a bottle, the practical choice is a stud QB. Now, I'm not sure I am in a position to evaluate just how good the Leinart, Cutler, Young crew is. Well, I know I'm not. BUT, if Marv, Tom and company pick a QB, I'm not going to puke in my Wheaties. I will see it for what it is. Lack of objective faith in the current QB roster, and a belief that the chosen one is truly lightning in a bottle. 633221[/snapback] I agree and if Marv/Modrak's assessment of JPL in the offseason is a negative one, then why wouldn't they draft a franchise QB to inagurate the new "regime"? He would be the cornerstone of this franchise and it would be someone that they brought in, not TD. A lot of people think that we need to plug a few holes and magically we are a playoff caliber team. I'm not saying that it cant happen, but chances of it are highly unlikely. We are in rebuilding mode wether you want to accept it or not and with this year being deep at potential franchise QBs within the first 10 picks, I wouldn't mind drafting one at #8. People can bank on the team tanking this year and ending up with a top 5 draft pick in next years draft and getting Brady Quinn, but c'mon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 But the point is, you will NEVER know if your QB sucks if the rest of the team sucks. 632559[/snapback] I agree, Dean. In fact, I think that we should bring Rob Johnson back, to see what he could do behind a decent offensive line. The line he had to play behind was an absolute joke. How can we know that he was a bust if the guys around him weren't any good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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