Adam Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 This won't be a popular opinion, but it will be quite some time before we can determine the success of our time in Iraq, or even George W. Bush's Presidentcy. It takes a long time for it to be put in a historical perspective- right now, people like to simplify things, and put the credit or blame for everything to the economy to their messed up garbage disposal on the President, but it doesn't work that way, even if you want to convince yourself otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted February 27, 2006 Author Share Posted February 27, 2006 And let's review the original post...Funny...I don't see you offering any opinions or discussion about Iraq. I see you offering them about Buckley and conservatives in general. You didn't even attempt to discuss Iraq in the original post...you used Iraq as the context to discuss Buckley and present your partisan viewpoint. Of course, in later posts, you did try to discuss Iraq...which is just typical of your posting style of "bait and switch" martyrdom: you start with discussing one topic in a given context (Buckley and his views on Iraq), and the very moment you're called out on your idiocy, you swap topic and context (Iraq in the context of Buckley) and play the innocent victim. It may not have been your intent...but it is what you did. And I have a very hard time believing it wasn't your intent, considering you do it ALL THE !@#$ING TIME. Though I will admit it's at least possible - though unlikely - you haven't the slightest idea what the meanings of "topic" and "context" are. Either way, the end result's the same: it's impossible to discuss anything with you, because ultimately you'll "bait and switch" any discussion you're involved in. But it's everyone else's fault. Sure... 612060[/snapback] My views and those of anyone on the left are quickly, automatically, deligitimized as partisan liberal tripe. Whenever we are critical of the administration in general and the war in particular, that is invariably the response. Sometimes we are stupid, sometimes lunatics, sometimes cowards and sometimes traitors. Always the same. Buckley however, can't be so reflexively ignored so I posted his opinion with little comment on them other than to emphasize that he is clearly not a liberal, lunatic, coward, defeatist. Posting my own views would have just drawn the same old same old reflexive response of or maybe . With Buckley, I hoped, maybe someone on the right might actually produce a thoughtful response. They are the people that need to be reached. Democrats don't run anything that matters foreign policy-wise. They aren't going to listen to me and, apparently, not Buckley. Either the situation in Iraq will get better, much better, and it won't matter anymore or it is going to continue to worsen. If it does, sooner or later, that reality will reach even the right. I don't want there to be needless loss of life dragging on for years because some just won't face reality. It won't be me that convinces them, apparently it won't be Buckley either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 This won't be a popular opinion, but it will be quite some time before we can determine the success of our time in Iraq, or even George W. Bush's Presidentcy. It takes a long time for it to be put in a historical perspective- right now, people like to simplify things, and put the credit or blame for everything to the economy to their messed up garbage disposal on the President, but it doesn't work that way, even if you want to convince yourself otherwise 612212[/snapback] Yes, we must keep stringing this disaster out. Tell me, are you willing to volunteer to serve in the Army to keep this mess going? Or are you simply going to offer meaningless tripe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Yes, we must keep stringing this disaster out. Tell me, are you willing to volunteer to serve in the Army to keep this mess going? Or are you simply going to offer meaningless tripe? 612217[/snapback] Don't worry man, we're not paying for it. Our great grandchildren are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Don't worry man, we're not paying for it. Our great grandchildren are. 612223[/snapback] I'll be dead before they can vote. Why should I care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I'll be dead before they can vote. Why should I care? 612231[/snapback] That's the spirit. Now all you have to do is pledge 10% of your gross to the Republican National Commitee. Get on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Part of my original post called Mickey a rambling fool, too. He's not rambling, neither is he a fool. But since I know that he actually has looked into the details of a lot of things, and knows better, I really have to question maybe not the arguments, but the motives and tactics. I think Mickey is a pretty smart guy, and as I said, is probably pretty well read on a lot of the issues. We've more than once traded tips on references. Mickey, if you are trying to present what it is YOU think about things, argue your interpretation of what you have learned and processed, don't "post links" and speak lawyer speak version of "Bush Bad", and insult our intelligence. Don't assume everyone here is stupidly uninformed, because they are not. You know exactly who are legitimate "adversaries", and who are not. I really don't think anyone is fighting you because you are "wrong", it's your presentation. A few years ago, I never figured you for one to pander to the masses. Just don't know why you are doing it now. Mostly not my business anyway, but you seem to have sunk to different tactics if someone doesn't agree with your POV, and you guise it in "I have to speak up for the downtrodden". Oh, BTW. I'm a Bush appologist neo-con war mongereror. 612142[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 612245[/snapback] My, that was enlightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 That's the spirit. Now all you have to do is pledge 10% of your gross to the Republican National Commitee. Get on it. 612239[/snapback] Pretty much sums up what passes for "conservatism" today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 612245[/snapback] Geez, I went to the beach with my son to get rid of some of his energy and came back and you guys went to town on Mickey. You mentioned that regardless of Mickey's intentions, motivations etc., which were all questioned, examined and pontificated upon by others ad infinitum, the real question posed by Mickey is should we still be in Iraq and where should we go from here? Am I wrong in this reading of your post? If so, what to do you think? IF we withdrew immediately, it would be interesting to figure out how the rest of the area would react as well as China and Russia. Short term Iranian reaction is probably predictable, longer term unsure. What are your thoughts and addtional scenario/options for actions. Forget the Mickey bashing for a sec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbh10128 Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Noted liberal Sheehanesque whack job, William F. Buckley says: "One can't doubt that the American objective in Iraq has failed." And further, that the challenge for the President is to: "...persuade himself that he can submit to a historical reality without forswearing basic commitments in foreign policy." And lastly, "...different plans have to be made. And the kernel here is the acknowledgment of defeat." I guess he can't see through the media conspiracy to portray the Iraq war as a disaster when in truth it is a smashing success. Chalk up another defeatist. Link fixed 611253[/snapback] we've done nothing in 3 years other than make it an even bigger mess. the most democratically elected group in the mideast is hamas. iran and russia just signed a nuclear supply agreement. who in their right freaking mind calls that a "smashing success" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Geez, I went to the beach with my son to get rid of some of his energy and came back and you guys went to town on Mickey. You mentioned that regardless of Mickey's intentions, motivations etc., which were all questioned, examined and pontificated upon by others ad infinitum, the real question posed by Mickey is should we still be in Iraq and where should we go from here? I am wrong in this reading of your post. If so, what to do you think? IF we withdrew immediately, it would be interesting to figure out how the rest of the area would react as well as China and Russia. Short term Iranian reaction is probably predictable, longer term unsure. What are your thoughts and addtional scenario/options for actions. Forget the Mickey bashing for a sec? 612253[/snapback] You know, the question about what we should do in Iraq is a really good topic for discussion. Someone ought to start a thread on that... ...rather than on Bill Buckley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 You know, the question about what we should do in Iraq is a really good topic for discussion. Someone ought to start a thread on that... ...rather than on Bill Buckley. 612258[/snapback] Point well taken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 My, that was enlightening. 612246[/snapback] Talk about the pot calling the tea kettle black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 we've done nothing in 3 years other than make it an even bigger mess. the most democratically elected group in the mideast is hamas. iran and russia just signed a nuclear supply agreement. who in their right freaking mind calls that a "smashing success" 612256[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Talk about the pot calling the tea kettle black. 612263[/snapback] Well he didn't say anything, did he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 612264[/snapback] Ed, the deep stinker on the PPP board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 My, that was enlightening. 612246[/snapback] Yep, My son unplugged my interenet connection in mid-thought. He is in bed now! Glad that I was able to provide some levity as well as a little ironic humor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Ed, the deep stinker on the PPP board. 612268[/snapback] He used to be one of you liberal nut-jobs. Please take him back. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 He used to be one of you liberal nut-jobs. Please take him back. Please. 612274[/snapback] Hell no. Why would I want to go back to being a pansy-ass hypocritical coward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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