ndirish1978 Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Big Ben? 603189[/snapback] That was too easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatPatPatSack Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 When Marv was coach of the Bills, in our best years, his offensive line was made up of the equivalent of three street free agents and two number one picks. Ballard and John Davis were both drafted in the 11th round. Davis wasn't even drafted by the Bills but the Oilers, so he was an 11th round pick and free agent and didn't cost a lot of money. Kent Hull wasn't even drafted in 11 rounds and was a free agent, too, from the USFL. Marv's DT was the weakest link in his line and his entire defense (outside of the coaching). So exactly what makes anyone think that Marv cares more about the line or using high picks or signing big contracts to free agents than his predecessor? Because he said so to Ed Kilgore? 603467[/snapback] Um yeh, because he said so to Ed Kilgore. Nothing like listening to what a man says to give you a good idea of what he thinks. And Marv does have a high believablity quotient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatPatPatSack Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 If there's a college lineman that all your personnel people agree has the work ethic and drive to be something special. Draft him. I don't care if it's the 1st or 7th. But unless there's a kid like that, getting that kind of endorsement from your scouts (not Kiper or anyone else), don't waste the pick. No other position in football requires the kind of mental and physical toughness that good O linemen posess. It's very hard to gauge this kind of toughness and forecast how young guys respond to higher levels of competition. The more I see of pro football, the more I'm of the mind to use FA to fill out my line. This is where I would invest heavily. Let each seasons crop of young linemen learn their craft and temper their edge somewhere else. Every off-season throw a bag of money at the best of them, and make him your own. Why gamble on boys when you can buy men. (Take it easy you pervs ). There's a lot of fast guys that can run and catch. There's a lot of guys who can throw a pretty spiral. There aren't many guys who have the athleticism, temperment, discipline and plain ol' nasty streak to be successful O linemen. 603568[/snapback] And don't forget that uncoachable quality called size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Um yeh, because he said so to Ed Kilgore. Nothing like listening to what a man says to give you a good idea of what he thinks. And Marv does have a high believablity quotient. 605050[/snapback] Except, of course, his teams and actions were otherwise, and quite the opposite from what he stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Um yeh, because he said so to Ed Kilgore. Nothing like listening to what a man says to give you a good idea of what he thinks. And Marv does have a high believablity quotient. 605050[/snapback] Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatPatPatSack Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Except, of course, his teams and actions were otherwise, and quite the opposite from what he stated. 605109[/snapback] Whaaa? Not sure I follow. Marv's teams did not have a good defensive line or offensive line? What, were the Bills better at defensive back or linebacker? (both of which incidentally are strengths of the defense today). And Marv's audio comments today, sure indicate that he thought very little of letting Pat Williams walk. Can't remember his term, eye twitcher or something. I must have misunderstood your comments - these don't seem to be from KtFABD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 And don't forget that uncoachable quality called size. 605053[/snapback] I disagree with you there. Size is a byproduct of three things: Genetics(height and body frame), coaching(practices and strength condition build muscle mass), and effort(more sets of pumpin iron, or eating more whoppers, however you want to see this component). The reality is that mike williams has a ton of size from those three components, and that he is really strong, the downfall on him is the effort component is suspect. From middle school level on up, you are coaching yopur kids to get in the weight room, which helps facilitate muscle growth at early age so they can retain and build this muscle mass easier as they get older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatPatPatSack Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I disagree with you there. Size is a byproduct of three things: Genetics(height and body frame), coaching(practices and strength condition build muscle mass), and effort(more sets of pumpin iron, or eating more whoppers, however you want to see this component). The reality is that mike williams has a ton of size from those three components, and that he is really strong, the downfall on him is the effort component is suspect. From middle school level on up, you are coaching yopur kids to get in the weight room, which helps facilitate muscle growth at early age so they can retain and build this muscle mass easier as they get older. 605193[/snapback] good comment. my comment was a bit flippant and your response was much more considered. But I meant that, just like basketball players, there is a cetain thing that only a rare few have. I'm sure Mike Williams was a big boy and would be a big man today irrespective of work. substitute genetics for size and we got agreement. Question. What is considered to be the age at which you should start the weight room without problems later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 Question. What is considered to be the age at which you should start the weight room without problems later? 605223[/snapback] definitely not before puberty, i know that much, most kids start lifting in high school but i know if you start too early it can stunt your growth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 good comment. my comment was a bit flippant and your response was much more considered. But I meant that, just like basketball players, there is a cetain thing that only a rare few have. I'm sure Mike Williams was a big boy and would be a big man today irrespective of work. substitute genetics for size and we got agreement. Question. What is considered to be the age at which you should start the weight room without problems later? 605223[/snapback] It's not so much the age, as the weight they're lifting. A good rule of thumb is not to let them lift more than their own weight, regardless of the routine. My own boys started the HS lifting and conditioning program as 8th graders, lifting 3 days a week after school. They've continued this schedule throughout the off-season. As a matter of fact, tomorrow's a lifting day. It's a well structured environment, where our head coach and assistants supervise the equipment's use, encourage the kids, and take note of the team's progress. I've coached younger guys in Pop Warner and most of us, including some of the guys who'll be in the HS weightroom tommorrow, discourage parents from getting their kids into it too soon. Personally, I don't worry about kids getting injured, as long as the boy's being supervised properly and isn't biting off more than he can chew. My main problem with starting a kid that young is that it will burn him out before his Sophomore year. You don't want your kids seeing the weight room as a chore. When they're old enough to get more out of it and can throw more weight around, you want them to be a motivated bunch, eager to get the most out of their training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 It's not so much the age, as the weight they're lifting. A good rule of thumb is not to let them lift more than their own weight, regardless of the routine. My own boys started the HS lifting and conditioning program as 8th graders, lifting 3 days a week after school. They've continued this schedule throughout the off-season. As a matter of fact, tomorrow's a lifting day. It's a well structured environment, where our head coach and assistants supervise the equipment's use, encourage the kids, and take note of the team's progress. I've coached younger guys in Pop Warner and most of us, including some of the guys who'll be in the HS weightroom tommorrow, discourage parents from getting their kids into it too soon. Personally, I don't worry about kids getting injured, as long as the boy's being supervised properly and isn't biting off more than he can chew. My main problem with starting a kid that young is that it will burn him out before his Sophomore year. You don't want your kids seeing the weight room as a chore. When they're old enough to get more out of it and can throw more weight around, you want them to be a motivated bunch, eager to get the most out of their training. 605402[/snapback] agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lofton80 Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Important factor is toughness which is what our line lacks as well as talent. Get Bentley in here and add Pitt Guard Charles Spencer in round 2 and we are a lot tougher already. Peters showed he is tough as nails on special teams. If Bentley is gone, draft Mangold and sign Runyan. LT- Marvel Smith Tough LG- Alan Faneca Tough/Talented C - Jeff Hartings Tough/Talented RG- Kendall Simmons Tough/Talented RT- Max Starks Tough Seahawks line: LT- Walter Jones Stud LG- Steve Hutchinson Tough C - Robbie Tobeck Tough RG- Chris Gray Tough RT- Sean Locklear Tough Marv's best line: Howard Ballard Big not sure on toughness John Davis Tough Kent Hull Tough/Talented Jim Ritcher Tough Will Wolford Tough/Talented TD's 2005 Line Mike Williams Soft Chris V Tough Trey Teague Tough but a finesse blocker Benny Slow untalented Blob Gandy Finesse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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