Defending my Miami Post

[1gap2gap]

Miami 1st Round Picks

 

1990- Cortez Kennedy - Seahawks – 11th pick - very good career

 

1991- Russell Maryland - Cowboys - 1st pick – excellent impacting career

 

1992- Leon Searcy - Steelers – 11th pick - Excellent career

 

1993 – Ryan McNeil – Lions – 4th pick – Solid long career

 

1994 – no 1st rounders

 

1995 – Warren Sapp – Buccs –12th pick – A very good impacting career

 

1996 – Ray Lewis – Ravens – 26th pick – impacting career on and off the field - if used in the correct defense he was impacting. Used not in the correct defense he is good but not impacting. Off field problems embarrassed his team and city and IMO is not worth the trouble. Influence younger players in such a manor that this team is still feeling the repercussions. An embarrassment to the game.

 

1997 - Yatil Green – Dolphins – 15th pick – Injuries never hit the field.

1997 - Kennard Lang – Redskins – 17th pick – an underachiever playing for the Browns now

1997 - Kenny Holmes – Oilers – 18th pick – An underachiever - Last I heard was with the Packers

 

1998- Duane Starks – 10th pick – Ravens - impacting career for four years, since 2001 has not been heard from and has been with 3 different teams. Last team – Patriots. Four years does not make a career – an underachiever

 

1999 – Edgerrin James – 4th pick – Colts – Has been an impacting RB- has come back from a very bad injury but is still not the same tough inside runner he was before the injury but still a good RB that has to be accounted for except on the tough yardage downs. Last two years have been contract years.

 

2000 – Bubba Franks – 14th pick – Packers – Has not been as impacting as was projected- not an elite TE very inconsistent blocking and in catching the ball. An underachiever.

 

2001 - Dan Morgan – 11th pick - Panthers – Shoulder injuries in college and shoulder injuries in the pros. It’s hard to impact with this many injuries.

2001 – Damione Lewis – 12th pick – Rams – An underachiever.

2001 – Santana Moss – 16th pick – Jets – was so inconsistent for the Jets they traded him – Exploded this year but in his contract year will have to follow it up and not revert to the inconsistency that got him traded. Can he become consistent?

2001 – Reggie Wayne – 30th pick – Colts – Has improved every year but has also not been dependable in catching the ball. His drops at crucial times of a game have been noted and his lack of toughness going across the middle will keep him as a #2 WR and not a #1 WR as most 1st Round WR picks are expected to be. Best year so far has been this year his contract year. So far an underachiever but the proof will be - do the Colts re-sign him? I can see some people disagreeing with me on Reggie. But that is how I see it.

 

2002 – Bryant McKinnie – 7th pick – Vikings – Fans are still hurting from this pick. Has one of the better Ole` techniques in the NFL. Should be moved to the right side so he can become average. An underachiever.

2002 - Jeremy Shockey – 14th pick Giants - Exploded on to the NFL but does have problems being consistent in the fourth quarter of close games. This is when his off field late night bar hopping issues rear themselves. Off the field he is the new Ray Lewis waiting to happen. On the field he is impacting but has trouble admitting to his own screw- ups. I hope for the Giants sake he matures before things off the field get worse.

2002 – Philip Buchanan – 17th picks – Raiders - An underachiever – can’t cover very well at all.

2002 – Ed Reed – 24th pick – Ravens – Has lived up to his PR and more.

2002 – Mike Rump – 27 – 49er’s – Has been injured but when he is not injured he has not lived up to his PR – An underachiever

 

2003 – Andre Johnson – 3rd pick - -Houston – Looks to be living up to his talent. Struggled this year but so did the whole team.

2003 – Jerome McDougle – 15th pick – Eagles – Not much faith that this kid will be any more then a situational player. I have to list him as an underachiever because he is not even challenging to get on the field and not producing when he does get on the field.

2003 - Willis McGahee – 23rd pick – Bills - Seems to play when he feels like it. Has the potential to make an O-line better then it is but did not run with the same heart or determination this year that he showed last year. It’s early in his career but the knee injury excuse is over and the inconsistency in his effort is shocking. If he is promised a new contract then he will show what a good back he is. If not then he will be just a solid back like he was last year. Right now he is inconsistent and an underachiever but that could all change next year.

2003 – William Joseph – 25th pick – Giants – He has been improving from year to year and before his ankle injury this year looked like he was going to improve over last year. Solid so far and improving.

 

2004 – Sean Taylor – 5th pick – Redskins – When you see Troy Polamalu (2003 –16th pick Steelers) play - I think that’s the type of production you should be getting from Sean and the Skins are not getting that. Add to that some off field issues and so far for the 5th pick of a draft you have an early underachiever with the tail end of a bust and an embarrassment just around the corner.

2004 – Kellen Winslow – 6th pick – Browns – I would normally let this kid off the hook because of injuries but not this time because of the way he got injured while he was still injured. He makes the underachiever list because of his selfishness and immaturity and he might have ruined his career because of it. He goes on to the underachiever list until we all can tell if he is a bust or not.

2004 – D J Williams – 17th pick – Broncos – They take him off the field in passing downs and off the field he has introduced himself to the judge already. It’s early to say if he is a bust because he could straighten out his off field issues and any day now he could become smarter and learn his assignments so he can stay on the field for all three downs. You just never know. We will give him the benefit of the doubt. An underachiever with another potential embarrassment and bust dangling from his neck.

2004 - Vernon Carey – 19th pick – Dolphins – For the 19th pick of the draft he should have started right a way. He is an underachiever right now but he could blossom into a solid O-lineman. The problem with that is you can get a solid O-lineman in any round.

2004 – Vince Wilfork – 21st pick – Patriots - Has done a good job and has improved. He is living up to his PR.

 

2005 – Antrel Rolle – 8th pick – Cardinals – Has been injured.

 

Let’s count it up: 16 yrs – 32 - 1st Rd picks

 

Lewis = embarrassment = 1

Shockey & DJ Williams – potential embarrassments = 2

 

15 underachiever’s + 2 inconsistent

 

That equals 20 out of 32 first round picks that have not worked out very well. That leaves 12 players minus off the players who never hit the field because of injuries ( Rolle- Morgan Green) that leaves 9 players out of 32 first round picks. Five of those players were picked before 1996. That means that after 1996 when the great Ray Lewis was drafted the Miami program impact on the NFL is three (3) players from the first round only.

 

Now you can add or subtract a few players that you may disagree with me about but the fact is that - you will be hard pressed to come up with more the eight players out of 32 first round picks that have had a significant impact on the NFL.

 

I consider that – A lot of players.

[ofiba]

Yeah, I'm sure the Ravens are really kicking themselves for drafting Ray Lewis. What an embarrassing moment that was when he led them to a Super Bowl with no offense.

[1gap2gap]

Yeah, I'm sure the Ravens are really kicking themselves for drafting Ray Lewis.  What an embarrassing moment that was when he led them to a Super Bowl with no offense. 

600988[/snapback]

 

 

I guess that's all that really matters making the Super Bowl.

 

What a response!

[Acantha]

I guess that's all that really matters making the Super Bowl. 

 

What a response!  

600997[/snapback]

Pretty much. Go ask a Ravens fan how they feel about Ray Lewis. I'd be surprised to hear "emabarassed" come up.

 

 

I didn't see you're other post, but I"m not sure what you are implying here.

Are you saying that Miami doesn't provide very many 1st round "stars"? Well, go look at some other schools and find out how many 1st round stars they produce. More 1st rounders go from Miami than any other school (possibly handing that torch to USC), and without looking up all the players/teams would bet they have one of the highest 1st round success rate.

 

I hate Miami, but you're not really making a lot of sense.

[MarkyMannn]

I guess that's all that really matters making the Super Bowl. 

 

What a response!  

600997[/snapback]

 

I would rather have a killer than wins a Super Bowl than a killer than wins nothing = OJ

[DCM]

Yeah.....that Shockey couldn't hold err....err...what's the Bills' tight ends name?

 

btw......what round was Jim Kelly drafted in?

[1gap2gap]

Pretty much.  Go ask a Ravens fan how they feel about Ray Lewis.  I'd be surprised to hear "emabarassed" come up.

I didn't see you're other post, but I"m not sure what you are implying here. 

Are you saying that Miami doesn't provide very many 1st round "stars"?  Well, go look at some other schools and find out how many 1st round stars they produce.  More 1st rounders go from Miami than any other school (possibly handing that torch to USC), and without looking up all the players/teams would bet they have one of the highest 1st round success rate.

 

I hate Miami, but you're not really making a lot of sense.

601002[/snapback]

 

I don't know why you bothered to answer the post. I think the post speaks for itself. I guess if you think that 3 players out of 32 is a good succes rate then I have nothing to say to you.

 

Defending Ray Lewis is a joke. Because he went to the Super Bowl everything else that he may do is alright. I just hope for your sake that he doesn't hurt some one close to you. Is this the measure of what a good player is or isn't?

 

What a joke. The original post was on the Free 7 round Mock Draft thread. To be honest with you I don't think it's going to matter to you. Ray Lewis went to the Super Bowl so who care's about anything else. (Sick)

 

He's a great player so what if he's selling drugs or anything else! He went to the Super Bowl.

[1gap2gap]

I would rather have a killer than wins a Super Bowl than a killer than wins nothing = OJ   

601017[/snapback]

 

 

Such a clever answer. You guys a really smart. I never though of that. Then again I didn't know that I was defending OJ in this post.

 

Does anybody remember OJ being talked about ???? Or is this just one of those post that you don't have anything to say so you throw out something stupid?

[1gap2gap]

Yeah.....that Shockey couldn't hold err....err...what's the Bills' tight ends name?

 

btw......what round was Jim Kelly drafted in?

601020[/snapback]

 

Another clever person. Gee I hope you guys didn't graduate from Miami. So far this is not a good showing at all.

 

How far did you want me to go back. forever ?????

[Acantha]

Such a clever answer.  You guys a really smart.  I never though of that.  Then again I didn't know that I was defending OJ in this post.

 

Does anybody remember OJ being talked about ???? Or is this just one of those post that you don't have anything to say so you throw out something stupid?

601033[/snapback]

 

Oh...sorry, I didn't realize you were this childish. I'll leave you to your tantrum.

[MarkyMannn]

Or is this just one of those post that you don't have anything to say so you throw out something stupid?

601033[/snapback]

 

 

To be brutally honest................yeah

[1gap2gap]

To be brutally honest................yeah   

601040[/snapback]

 

 

[ofiba]

So let me get this straight. To qualify to be a good draft pick you have to

1. win a super bowl

2. have a good season in every one you play in

3. never get injured

4. never have any bad press about you

5. never get tried for a crime, even if you are acquitted,

6. can't play good in contract years because that means you are selfish,

7. never drop a ball...

 

Anything I missed? I would LOVE for you to break down a school that produces good players.

 

Players you would not consider good draft picks.

1. Bruce Smith- too many DUI's.

2. Thurman- alcoholic

3. Lawrence Taylor- drug addict

 

I'm not saying you should praise players for off the field struggles, but if you think for 1 second, knowing what they know now, any team would pass on a guy like Ray Lewis or Lawrence Taylor, then you're crazy.

[1gap2gap]

So let me get this straight. To qualify to be a good draft pick you have to

1. win a super bowl

2. have a good season in every one you play in

3. never get injured

4. never have any bad press about you

5. never get tried for a crime, even if you are acquitted,

6. can't play good in contract years because that means you are selfish,

7. never drop a ball...

 

Anything I missed?  I would LOVE for you to break down a school that produces good players. 

 

Players you would not consider good draft picks.

1. Bruce Smith- too many DUI's.

2. Thurman- alcoholic

3. Lawrence Taylor- drug addict

 

I'm not saying you should praise players for off the field struggles, but if you think for 1 second, knowing what they know now, any team would pass on a guy like Ray Lewis or Lawrence Taylor, then you're crazy.

601048[/snapback]

 

This post is in reply to a post were I said that I had a problem with picking players from the Miami program in general. That they have sent a lot of underachievers over the years. Players that played with no heart, inconsistent and did not show up for all of thier contract years.

 

I proceeded to be jump on by others saying that this statement wasn't true and that I just sais something that I could not back up.

 

This is the proof. I'am not going to bother to compare colleges and this has nothing to do with hindsite.

 

I was called a moron becuase I did not know what I was talking about. i'm not going to bother discussing what makes a good player or draftable player any other nonsense. that has nothing to do with the post.

 

It's just meant as a simple factual accounting to prove that even if you don't agree with me on everything that I have stated about being careful about drafting players from this program you would have to agree that Miami has not had the impact over the years that everybody gives them credit for having and that their are some serous questions.

 

It does not mean that the players in this draft are not good and it does not mean that every player in other rounds have not had impact in the NFL. But it is a bit shocking and if you do not think the NFL has noticed and owners have not put thier GM's scouts etc on notice then you are mistaken.

 

There are lot's of programs that are just as bad. That's not the point.

[NavyBillsFan]

Did they forget to fill the tampon machine at work again?

[Adam]

Yeah, I'm sure the Ravens are really kicking themselves for drafting Ray Lewis.  What an embarrassing moment that was when he led them to a Super Bowl with no offense. 

600988[/snapback]

Their offense was not as bad as people made it out to be- Dilfer was a very good leader, and the offensive line along with Lewis made for a dominant running game.

 

Lewis should be in jail

[1gap2gap]

Did they forget to fill the tampon machine at work again?

601055[/snapback]

 

I believe that's your job!

[In space no one can hear]

Miami 1st Round Picks

 

1990- Cortez Kennedy - Seahawks – 11th pick - very good career

 

1991- Russell Maryland - Cowboys - 1st pick – excellent impacting career

 

1992- Leon Searcy - Steelers – 11th pick - Excellent career

 

1993 – Ryan McNeil – Lions – 4th pick – Solid long career

 

1994 – no 1st rounders

 

1995 – Warren Sapp – Buccs –12th pick – A very good impacting career

 

1996 – Ray Lewis – Ravens – 26th pick – impacting career on and off the field - if used in the correct defense he was impacting.  Used not in the correct defense he is good but not impacting.  Off field problems embarrassed his team and city and IMO is not worth the trouble.  Influence younger players in such a manor that this team is still feeling the repercussions.  An embarrassment to the game.

 

1997 - Yatil Green – Dolphins – 15th pick – Injuries never hit the field. 

1997 - Kennard Lang – Redskins – 17th pick – an underachiever  playing for the Browns now

1997 - Kenny Holmes – Oilers – 18th pick – An underachiever - Last I heard was with the Packers

 

1998- Duane Starks – 10th pick – Ravens - impacting career for four years, since 2001 has not been heard from and has been with 3 different teams. Last team – Patriots.  Four years does not make a career – an underachiever

 

1999 – Edgerrin James – 4th pick – Colts – Has been an impacting RB- has come back from a very bad injury but is still not the same tough inside runner he was before the injury but still a good RB that has to be accounted for except on the tough yardage downs.  Last two years have been contract years. 

 

2000 – Bubba Franks – 14th pick – Packers – Has not been as impacting as was projected- not an elite TE very inconsistent blocking and in catching the ball.  An underachiever.

 

2001 - Dan Morgan – 11th pick - Panthers – Shoulder injuries in college and shoulder injuries in the pros.  It’s hard to impact with this many injuries. 

2001 – Damione Lewis – 12th pick – Rams – An underachiever.

2001 – Santana Moss – 16th pick – Jets – was so inconsistent for the Jets they traded him – Exploded this year but in his contract year will have to follow it up and not revert to the inconsistency that got him traded.  Can he become consistent?

2001 – Reggie Wayne – 30th pick – Colts – Has improved every year but has also not been dependable in catching the ball.  His drops at crucial times of a game have been noted and his lack of toughness going across the middle will keep him as a #2 WR and not a #1 WR as most 1st Round WR picks are expected to be. Best year so far has been this year his contract year.  So far an underachiever but the proof will be - do the Colts re-sign him?  I can see some people disagreeing with me on Reggie.  But that is how I see it. 

 

2002 – Bryant McKinnie – 7th pick – Vikings – Fans are still hurting from this pick.  Has one of the better Ole` techniques in the NFL.  Should be moved to the right side so he can become average.  An underachiever.

2002 - Jeremy Shockey – 14th pick Giants - Exploded on to the NFL but does have problems being consistent in the fourth quarter of close games.  This is when his off field late night bar hopping issues rear themselves.  Off the field he is the new Ray Lewis waiting to happen.  On the field he is impacting but has trouble admitting to his own screw- ups.  I hope for the Giants sake he matures before things off the field get worse. 

2002 – Philip Buchanan – 17th picks – Raiders - An underachiever – can’t cover very well at all. 

2002 – Ed Reed – 24th pick – Ravens – Has lived up to his PR and more.

2002 – Mike Rump – 27 – 49er’s – Has been injured but when he is not injured he has not lived up to his PR – An underachiever 

 

2003 – Andre Johnson – 3rd pick - -Houston – Looks to be living up to his talent.  Struggled this year but so did the whole team. 

2003 – Jerome McDougle – 15th pick – Eagles – Not much faith that this kid will be any more then a situational player.  I have to list him as an underachiever because he is not even challenging to get on the field and not producing when he does get on the field. 

2003 - Willis McGahee – 23rd pick – Bills - Seems to play when he feels like it.  Has the potential to make an O-line better then it is but did not run with the same heart or determination this year that he showed last year.  It’s early in his career but the knee injury excuse is over and the inconsistency in his effort is shocking.  If he is promised a new contract then he will show what a good back he is. If not then he will be just a solid back like he was last year.  Right now he is inconsistent and an underachiever but that could all change next year. 

2003 – William Joseph – 25th pick – Giants – He has been improving from year to year and before his ankle injury this year looked like he was going to improve over last year.  Solid so far and improving. 

 

2004 – Sean Taylor – 5th pick – Redskins – When you see Troy Polamalu (2003 –16th pick Steelers) play - I think that’s the type of production you should be getting from Sean and the Skins are not getting that.  Add to that some off field issues and so far for the 5th pick of a draft you have an early underachiever with the tail end of a bust and an embarrassment just around the corner. 

2004 – Kellen Winslow – 6th pick – Browns – I would normally let this kid off the hook because of injuries but not this time because of the way he got injured while he was still injured.  He makes the underachiever list because of his selfishness and immaturity and he might have ruined his career because of it.  He goes on to the underachiever list until we all can tell if he is a bust or not. 

2004 – D J Williams – 17th pick – Broncos – They take him off the field in passing downs and off the field he has introduced himself to the judge already.  It’s early to say if he is a bust because he could straighten out his off field issues and any day now he could become smarter and learn his assignments so he can stay on the field for all three downs.  You just never know.  We will give him the benefit of the doubt.  An underachiever with another potential embarrassment and bust dangling from his neck. 

2004 - Vernon Carey – 19th pick – Dolphins – For the 19th pick of the draft he should have started right a way.  He is an underachiever right now but he could blossom into a solid O-lineman.  The problem with that is you can get a solid O-lineman in any round. 

2004 – Vince Wilfork – 21st pick – Patriots - Has done a good job and has improved.  He is living up to his PR. 

 

2005 – Antrel Rolle – 8th pick – Cardinals – Has been injured. 

 

Let’s count it up:  16 yrs – 32  - 1st Rd picks

 

Lewis = embarrassment = 1

Shockey & DJ Williams – potential embarrassments = 2

 

15 underachiever’s + 2 inconsistent

 

That equals 20 out of 32 first round picks that have not worked out very well. That leaves 12 players minus off the players who never hit the field because of injuries ( Rolle- Morgan Green)  that leaves 9 players out of 32 first round picks.  Five of those players were picked before 1996.  That means that after 1996 when the great Ray Lewis was drafted the Miami program impact on the NFL is three (3) players from the first round only. 

 

Now you can add or subtract a few players that you may disagree with me about but the fact is that -  you will be hard pressed to come up with more the eight players out of 32 first round picks that have had a significant impact on the NFL. 

 

I consider that – A lot of players.

600986[/snapback]

 

 

 

Thanks for the research.....

unfortunately for you-

your lack of knowledge and or understanding

of your own data helps to indict you rather than prove your point....

 

If you wonder why you are getting so much resistance to your "theories"

you might after some soul searching come to the conclusion that you are wrong!

[mborn]

This post is in reply to a post were I said that I had a problem with picking players from the Miami program in general.  That they have sent a lot of underachievers over the years. Players that played with no heart, inconsistent and did not show up for all of thier contract years.

 

I proceeded to be jump on by others saying that this statement wasn't true and that I just sais something that I could not back up.

 

This is the proof.  I'am not going to bother to compare colleges and this has nothing to do with hindsite.

 

I was called a moron becuase I did not know what I was talking about.  i'm not going to bother discussing what makes a good player or draftable player any other nonsense. that has nothing to do with the post. 

 

It's just meant as a simple factual accounting to prove that even if you don't agree with me on everything that I have stated about being careful about drafting players from this program you would have to agree that Miami has not had the impact over the years that everybody gives them credit for having and that their are some serous questions.

 

It does not mean that the players in this draft are not good and it does not mean that every player in other rounds have not had impact in the NFL. But it is a bit shocking and if you do not think the NFL has noticed and owners have not put thier GM's scouts etc on notice then you are mistaken.

 

There are lot's of programs that are just as bad.  That's not the point.

601052[/snapback]

 

Thats not proof, its opinion.

[Lori]

Wow -- where to begin? I guess with the idea that coming off a severe knee injury, back-to-back 1000-yard seasons for a mediocre team makes McGahee an 'underachiever'.

 

Santana Moss: Led his team in receiving each of the last three years. Fairly consistent, I'd say, especially considering the Jets finished up 2004 -- Moss's one sub-1000-yard season in the last three -- with Quincy Carter and an injured Chad Pennington splitting time at QB.

 

DJ Williams: third in Defensive ROY voting last season to fellow 'Cane Jonathan Vilma. Oops -- forgot about Vilma? He should be at #12, between Winslow and Williams. You can also find him at this year's Pro Bowl.

 

Bubba Franks: six seasons, three Pro Bowls. Another underachiever? All righty then...

 

Ryan McNeil was a second-round pick in 1993, #33 to the Lions. The Lions dealt their first-round pick to the Saints.

 

And I thought I hated the "U" just about as much as anyone. Guess I was wrong.