Fan in San Diego Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/article...nator100106.php Jim Zorn sounds like a real possibility here. JP's style of play actually is very similar to the way Zorn played. I remember that Zorn used his feet to make a whole lot of big plays when he was in the league. I'm sure he's learned a ton being in Seattle, especially about the need for a great running attack. This might be the perfect candidate if a proven guy like Norv Turner isn't willing to come over here. 561109[/snapback] There are some good candidates there. I like the sound of Norv Turner as OC. Former HC's moving back toa co-ord. position usually do very well. Norv has been successful as an OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/article...nator100106.php Jim Zorn sounds like a real possibility here. JP's style of play actually is very similar to the way Zorn played. I remember that Zorn used his feet to make a whole lot of big plays when he was in the league. I'm sure he's learned a ton being in Seattle, especially about the need for a great running attack. This might be the perfect candidate if a proven guy like Norv Turner isn't willing to come over here. 561109[/snapback] I think Mike Heimerdinger's interesting, too. He wants to be a HC, but it looks like the Jets are going after Eric Mangini from the Pats. Heimerdinger has a nice background with the Titans and Broncos and might find the Bills to be a good landing spot for an experienced OC with HC aspirations. WM reminds me of Eddie George to some extent, so Heimerdinger with a better O-line might be a good fit: he subscribes to the philosophy that a team's best defense is sometimes its offense. His goal is not only to score, but to maintain long, back-breaking drives that keep the opposition's defense on the field and wears it out. While big plays are nice, six- and seven-yard passes and a solid ground attack keep both the chains and the clock moving, and that's what running an offense is all about. "You just want to stay in a rhythm," says Heimerdinger, the new offensive coordinator for the New York Jets. "You want to keep the defense running and keep it on the field." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Grimm's a good coach, but he pulled no rabbits out of the hat when PGH's LT Marvel Smith went down and they suffered a 3 game losing streak. His development of the bench doesn't impress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 If the Bills can't get Grimm due to that assistant head coach stuff, maybe they should take a long, hard look at NE QB coach Josh McDaniels. This would be an opportunity to hurt a division rival while getting a guy skilled in the death by a thousand small cuts style of offense. I still remember the way the Giants offense killed the Bills back in the Super Bowl; and the Patriots' offense looks remarkably similar. McDaniels could import this offense to Buffalo. Now, you say the players shouldn't be expected to learn a whole new offense. But for whose sake are the Bills supposed to keep their offense the same? The offensive line, even though all its players should be replaced? The QB, even though there is no established QB right now? The receivers, even though Moulds won't be here much longer? The RBs, even though McGahee has had an off year? No, if the offense is going to go in a new direction, now is the time to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Sam's overall winning percentage as an NFL HC is under 0.400 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/WychSa0.htm 560492[/snapback] I thought we were talking offensive coordinator here, not head coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I thought we were talking offensive coordinator here, not head coach 561316[/snapback] Yes, I was talking about the OC position as well. My point was that SW doesn't have the most stellar winning tradition behind him at Cincy and TB (although working for Bill Walsh is a big plus). He may be an offensive innovator, but all things being equal, I'd rather hire folks whose experiences and every day environment make winning an expected and natural part of their BAU approach, rather than a sometime thing. No slam on Sam, but I was comparing his experience with that of Russ Grimm, who played for one of the most successful teams of his era (4 SB apparences and three rings) and has coached on teams with high winning percentages. 11 years as a player---0.699% winning percentage 9 years as a asst. coach---0.604% winning percentage 20 years in NFL---only two losing seasons---0.656% winning percentage Lori...where's your rebuttal?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Yes, I was talking about the OC position as well. My point was that SW doesn't have the most stellar winning tradition behind him at Cincy and TB (although working for Bill Walsh is a big plus). He may be an offensive innovator, but all things being equal, I'd rather hire folks whose experiences and every day environment make winning an expected and natural part of their BAU approach, rather than a sometime thing. No slam on Sam, but I was comparing his experience with that of Russ Grimm, who played for one of the most successful teams of his era (4 SB apparences and three rings) and has coached on teams with high winning percentages. 11 years as a player---0.699% winning percentage 9 years as a asst. coach---0.604% winning percentage 20 years in NFL---only two losing seasons---0.656% winning percentage Lori...where's your rebuttal?? 561389[/snapback] Be careful what you wish for..... Just my opinion, but I still prefer the guy whose offensive innovations included the 'sugar huddle' -- which spawned the modern use of the no-huddle offense (including the Bills' K-Gun) for something besides the two-minute-drill -- over a guy who, to the best of my knowledge, has never called a play in an NFL game. But as you pointed out last night, it's probably a moot point anyhow. Grimm's a good bet to get a HC job somewhere, and Wyche's cardiomyopathy -- he's got a pacemaker, you know -- would likely preclude him from taking a job any more stressful than the one he already has. (In response to another name mentioned in this thread: rumors have Heimerdinger reconnecting with Mike Shanahan out in Denver; he'll need a new OC after Gary Kubiak leaves for the HC job in Houston.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Yes, I was talking about the OC position as well. My point was that SW doesn't have the most stellar winning tradition behind him at Cincy and TB (although working for Bill Walsh is a big plus). He may be an offensive innovator, but all things being equal, I'd rather hire folks whose experiences and every day environment make winning an expected and natural part of their BAU approach, rather than a sometime thing. No slam on Sam, but I was comparing his experience with that of Russ Grimm, who played for one of the most successful teams of his era (4 SB apparences and three rings) and has coached on teams with high winning percentages. 11 years as a player---0.699% winning percentage 9 years as a asst. coach---0.604% winning percentage 20 years in NFL---only two losing seasons---0.656% winning percentage Lori...where's your rebuttal?? 561389[/snapback] here's the rebuttal. cincinatti offensive rankings (nfl overall) with wyche as head coach: 1991 13 1990 11 1989 2 1988 1 1987 6 1986 1 1985 4 1984 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 here's the rebuttal. cincinatti offensive rankings (nfl overall) with wyche as head coach: 1991 13 1990 11 1989 2 1988 1 1987 6 1986 1 1985 4 1984 5 561461[/snapback] I sort of find that a knock on Sam...he had a fast strike offense that did nothing to help his defense. I thought the point was to win... Defensive Rank (total yards)...W-L 1991___28 (dead last)....3-13 1990___25.......................9-7 1989___14.......................8-8 1988___17.....................12-4 1987____7.....................4-11 1986___20.................... 10-6 1985___21.......................7-9 1984___12.......................8-8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 I sort of find that a knock on Sam...he had a fast strike offense that did nothing to help his defense. I thought the point was to win... 561483[/snapback] One could use those stats to make the opposite argument: the defense was lousy, it did nothing to help the offense, yet the Bengals had offensive success anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 yet the Bengals had offensive success anyway. 561491[/snapback] So damn the torpedos...we'll look pretty but have only two winning seasons! Hoo boy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 So damn the torpedos...we'll look pretty but have only two winning seasons! Hoo boy... 561500[/snapback] Yeah, because the Bills have never had a successful season while running the no-huddle offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Yeah, because the Bills have never had a successful season while running the no-huddle offense. 561504[/snapback] Well....Parcells, Gibbs and Johnson might agree with that assessment! Now, now...just having fun. Sam knew how to move the ball back in the day, but I'd just as soon not have his jail break offense with the Bills current personnel. I like Mike Heimendinger's ball control/keep the D off the field philosophy more (see my post above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 (boldtype added for emphasis) Well....Parcells, Gibbs and Johnson might agree with that assessment! Now, now...just having fun. Sam knew how to move the ball back in the day, but I'd just as soon not have his jail break offense with the Bills current personnel. I like Mike Heimendinger's ball control/keep the D off the field philosophy more (see my post above). 561508[/snapback] Ah... now we're getting to the REAL issue.... I'm still convinced Mularkey wants to run the ball; he's just lost faith in the line's ability to do so when needed. Just my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Just my opinion... 561510[/snapback] Which I happen to agree with, too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 If the Bills can't get Grimm due to that assistant head coach stuff, maybe they should take a long, hard look at NE QB coach Josh McDaniels. This would be an opportunity to hurt a division rival while getting a guy skilled in the death by a thousand small cuts style of offense. 561308[/snapback] The Patriots have more plays of 20+ yards than any team in the league. So much for death by a thousand cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 The Patriots have more plays of 20+ yards than any team in the league. So much for death by a thousand cuts. 561715[/snapback] They probably have more total offensive plays than most teams in the league, because their offense is so good at staying on the field and avoiding three and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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