Can we please move MW to left guard now?

[Typical TBD Guy]

Price can handle RT for the rest of the season, and Lawrence "Journeyman" Smith can ride the bench until early January when he gets cut.

 

Heading into the bye week, MW gets 2 whole weeks to learn a new position (which is pretty much the same length of time he spent with the Bills all offseason). His future as a tackle is over. He cannot handle the DE's of the NFL like he could in college. He does, however, have the talent potential to be a perennial Pro Bowl guard.

 

To the naysayers that will defend the need for "line chemistry" and "line continuity," my answer is that there IS no chemistry and continuity to screw with; Price won't do any worse than MW, and nobody at left guard could do worse than Lawrence "I Am a No-Talent Assclown" Smith.

[BB2004]

I concur. I think that would help out our line drastically.

[Campy]

Your "journeyman" is technically a rookie.

[Typical TBD Guy]

Your "journeyman" is technically a rookie.

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True, although the beginning of his glorious "journey" began on the Ravens practice squad.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Your "journeyman" is technically a rookie.

39271[/snapback]

AND he's opened up some of the better holes in rushing situations. AND your number one draft pick left tackle, no wait, right tackle, no wait, left guard now? -- has been a main offender in some of these sacks. AND, most of all, WHO THE HELL plays right tackle if you move him?

 

What a flawed post. Jesus.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

AND he's opened up some of the better holes in rushing situations.  AND your number one draft pick left tackle, no wait, right tackle, no wait, left guard now? --  has been a main offender in some of these sacks.  AND, most of all, WHO THE HELL plays right tackle if you move him?

 

What a flawed post.  Jesus.

39275[/snapback]

I think he said this guy:

[Marcus]Price can handle RT for the rest of the season

I agree that there needs to be a shakeup on the O-line and that Price should be playing RT and MW LG. I like Smith and think he has potential, but he needs another year.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I agree that there needs to be a shakeup on the O-line and that Price should be playing RT and MW LG.  I like Smith and think he has potential, but he needs another year.

39277[/snapback]

Well what the hell, they looked better with Tucker instead of Villarial right? Why not just switch them out and destroy any semblance of chemistry these guys might build?

 

Smith is the best option at LG, guard is not Williams' position, he just needs to get his ass in gear. And he needs games at tackle under our new staff's tutelage to get there. If he doesn't get there, we cut him. We're not paying him this well to be a guard.

[justnzane]

I think he said this guy:

 

I agree that there needs to be a shakeup on the O-line and that Price should be playing RT and MW LG.  I like Smith and think he has potential, but he needs another year.

39277[/snapback]

 

Wow !!! that is idiot as MW was not the only source of problems in the game yesterday. look at how db had enough time to get rid of the ball yet hung on (3-4sacks) and 2 of the other ones were blitzes right up the gut. SO, go bag on the rookie head coach for having some bad play calls.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Well what the hell, they looked better with Tucker instead of Villarial right?  Why not just switch them out and destroy any semblance of chemistry these guys might build?

 

Smith is the best option at LG, guard is not Williams' position, he just needs to get his ass in gear.  And he needs games at tackle under our new staff's tutelage to get there.  If he doesn't get there, we cut him.  We're not paying him this well to be a guard.

39281[/snapback]

Price has played at RT and the guys are familar with him. And inserting MW at LG wouldn't be that huge of a chemistry breaker. McNally himself said that MW is probably best suited at OG, and he should know.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Wow !!! that is idiot as MW was not the only source of problems in the game yesterday. look at how db had enough time to get rid of the ball yet hung on (3-4sacks) and 2 of the other ones were blitzes right up the gut. SO, go bag on the rookie head coach for having some bad play calls.

39285[/snapback]

I think it's more Clements. It's only been 2 games and I already hate him as OC. I think Mularkey should seriously consider taking over OC'ing duties, or giving them to Wyche. I know it's early, but I'm not seeing anything at all with Clements.

[Rico]

Agree 100%.

 

MW is a BUST as a RT...

the truth hurts, but Marcus Price is a far better player.

 

Not only can MW not pass block at RT, but he can't run block either,

and there's no Pucillo to blame this year,

what you see is what you get.

[Typical TBD Guy]

AND he's opened up some of the better holes in rushing situations.  AND your number one draft pick left tackle, no wait, right tackle, no wait, left guard now? --  has been a main offender in some of these sacks.  AND, most of all, WHO THE HELL plays right tackle if you move him?

 

What a flawed post.  Jesus.

39275[/snapback]

 

Not as flawed as yours.

 

Anyone supporting Lawrence Smith's play was clearly not watching the first 2 games closely. Smith is not a legitimate NFL starter; he's a preseason stud and nothing more.

 

MW has been a main sack offender because he's playing out in space where NFL-caliber DE speed is too much for him. As a guard, his limited mobility as a tackle instantly becomes above-average in pass protection, to go along with his already solid run-blocking abilities. I know he'll be horribly overpaid as a guard for the remainder of his contract (through 2005), so renegotiate with him or outright cut him. I don't care which way, I just no longer want MW playing tackle.

 

I already suggested Marcus Price as our starting RT. He's been pretty consistent for his entire career when given the opportunity to start, both with us and when he was with the Saints.

 

Nice try, Mr. Fingers. Now try again.

[BuffaloBob]

Not as flawed as yours.

 

Anyone supporting Lawrence Smith's play was clearly not watching the first 2 games closely. Smith is not a legitimate NFL starter; he's a preseason stud and nothing more.

 

MW has been a main sack offender because he's playing out in space where NFL-caliber DE speed is too much for him. As a guard, his limited mobility as a tackle instantly becomes above-average in pass protection, to go along with his already solid run-blocking abilities. I know he'll be horribly overpaid as a guard for the remainder of his contract (through 2005), so renegotiate with him or outright cut him. I don't care which way, I just no longer want MW playing tackle.

 

I already suggested Marcus Price as our starting RT. He's been pretty consistent for his entire career when given the opportunity to start, both with us and when he was with the Saints.

 

Nice try, Mr. Fingers. Now try again.

39352[/snapback]

So maybe I'll give it a shot.

 

First, how many sacks has Mike given up this season so far? I assume that you've reviewed the game tape for the past two games carefully in order to support this position?

 

Also, I have watched the two games and I have watched Smith and although he has struggled at times with assignments and run blocking (as any first year starter will be expected to do, he actually performed quite well.

 

You see, the thing is you guys love to throw all of this theory around as if you know what your talking about, but the reality is that you don't. Most of those sacks were caused by exploiting the Bills blocking scheme up the middle. Two guys can't block three. Last time I checked I don't recall Smith's job assignment including the need to block more than one guy.

 

The most offensive of the sacks (at least three of them) were failed blitz pick-ups by backs and Hbacks. A few more of them (at least two of them) were coverage sacks where Drew simply hung onto the ball to damn long and should have thrown the thing away. But you are now telling us all how Smith is a failure at guard and so is Williams at tackle. Without knowledge of the Bills blocking assignments on any particular play, without knowledge of what the Raiders were doing defensively on any particular play, you are merely engaging in mental masturbation in explaining to us all how we need to fix the O-line.

 

You guys make me laugh! Rico states with authority that Williams is a bust because he can't pass block or run block, yet he cites no stats on sacks allowed for the games played this year nor does he cite any other stats that would possibly support his position, such as a comparison of success between runs to the right and left, or breakdowns of plays that failed due to a failed block by the guard vs the tackle on the right side.

 

But please, by all means keep us entertained with your solid expertise in O-line play and personnel evaluation.

[Typical TBD Guy]

39363[/snapback]

 

I believe MW has been credited with giving up 2 sacks so far this season. He has also allowed numerous other hurries.

 

Lawrence Smith, based on what I personally saw in the Jax and Oak games, was a major liability in both run blocking and pass protection. The Raider game plan was obviously one of penetrating the middle with extra LB's, as you mentioned (the Jax D gameplan was fairly similar). However, there is a certain level of protection required from an NFL interior line, regardless of how good the opposing DT's are or how much extra blocking help is supposed to come from the HB and/or FB on blitzes. In my opinion, Smith - as well as Teague and sometimes Villarial - did not give our offense this bare minimum protection. I believe we could do better than Lawrence Smith. Next year this better player should come in free agency or even the draft; this year I think MW could be that better player since he's already playing his way out of a job at RT and since he has the natural skills to be a dominating guard.

 

By the way, just because we're not Jim McNally himself doesn't mean we can't voice our opinions of what is right and wrong with the line. This is a Buffalo Bills football MESSAGE BOARD. This is what people here do.

 

If you have a problem with the incredible ignorance of this board on all matters dealing with the offensive line, then by all means please enlighten us. You seem to believe we are so off on our claims that you simply had to put us in our place. So then, please tell us what the fundamental problems are with our OL - if any - and how you think we should fix them?

[Rico]

You guys make me laugh!  Rico states with authority that Williams is a bust because he can't pass block or run block, yet he cites no stats on sacks allowed for the games played this year nor does he cite any other stats that would possibly support his position, such as a comparison of success between runs to the right and left, or breakdowns of plays that failed due to a failed block by the guard vs the tackle on the right side. 

 

But please, by all means keep us entertained with your solid expertise in O-line play and personnel evaluation.  

39363[/snapback]

As I've said many times before,

the only stat that matters is wins vs. losses.

Any other stat can be twisted...

 

When I saw a much smaller Raiders LB throw Mike Williams

aside like a rag doll on his way to poor Drew,

I finally had seen enough.

[BuffaloBob]

I believe MW has been credited with giving up 2 sacks so far this season. He has also allowed numerous other hurries.

39372[/snapback]

 

Link or cite to stats please? Both for sacks and hurries. Thank you!

Lawrence Smith, based on what I personally saw in the Jax and Oak games, was a major liability in both run blocking and pass protection. The Raider game plan was obviously one of penetrating the middle with extra LB's, as you mentioned (the Jax D gameplan was fairly similar). However, there is a certain level of protection required from the interior line, regardless of how good the opposing DT's are or how much extra blocking help is supposed to come from the HB and/or FB on blitzes. In my opinion, Smith - as well as Teague and sometimes Villarial - did not give our offense the bare minimum protection. I believe we could do better than Lawrence Smith. Next year this better player should come in free agency or even the draft; this year I think MW could be that better player since he's already playing his way out of a job at RT and since he has the natural skills to be a dominating guard.

 

39372[/snapback]

 

How many sacks has Smith given up? How many hurries? Stat cite please.

And this of course is based on your armchair (barstool?) observation watching TV coverage in combination with your venerable experience as a scout of football talent for which team? How many years? Please provide me with your breakdowns on a play-by-play basis as to individual grades so I can have some idea the basis for your assessment of liability.

 

By the way, just because I'm not Jim McNally himself doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion of what is right and wrong with the line. This is a Buffalo Bills football MESSAGE BOARD. This is what people here do.

 

If you have a problem with the incredible ignorance of this board on all matters dealing with the offensive line, then by all means please enlighten us. You seem to believe we are so off on our claims that you simply had to put us in our place. So then, please tell us what the fundamental problems are with our OL - if any - and how you think we should fix them?

39372[/snapback]

 

You are absolutely right. By all means, please continue to entertain! I enjoy it! As for the incredible ignorance of the board, I have no problem. What I get a giggle from are people making assinine pronouncments regarding the assessment of blame and solutions therefore, and the hurling of personal insults of Bills players/coaches/executives notwithstanding that ignorance. I can handle it from the media. At least they are paid to write that drivel as if THEY actually know something about it.

 

As for my analysis of the offensive line and its problems so far, how could I possibly do that without the same information I think you and every one of the other experts on this board should have before professing a solution? I am not privvy to film sessions. I am not privvy to detailed knowledge regarding McNally's blocking schemes. Without better focus on the O-line, it is often virtually impossible to tell exactly where a play breaks down and why, even when taped on a VCR!

 

My only point is that you negative nancies are hilarious, assessing blame for two close losses and a failure as of yet to be as efficient as they should be. Assessing player personnel, shifting positions, benching players now that the regular season has started as if you know these changes are even warranted let alone that they would be an improvement.

 

What I as an average fan do know is this: We have installed a brand new offense for the 3rd time in 4 years. That is NOT going to do much for the continuity of any offensive team. The reality is that so far, had just one of a number of stupid inefficiencies been eliminated in these two games, we would be 2-0 notwithstanding your hand-wringing over our personnel and their supposed terrible play. But these things happen as a new offense is installed, honed and refined. You don't learn much about the offense and what works best until you have played several games with it under live fire.

 

OTRs, a month of training camp and a couple of quarters of preseason football will not get you there. It's a hard truth, but that is reality. But I have faith in our personnel and I have faith in the coaching staff, that as they experience these fits and starts early on that they will iron out the bugs and correct the mistakes. When an offense is well-honed, one can overcome or even hide the occasional bad plays or even bad games that athletes have. Brett Favre isn't perfect every week, but he's been running the same damn offense for his entire GB career. Same with Mcnabb at Philly or McNair at Tenny.

 

But you guys have no freakin' patience and no freakin' faith and you've all got the answers to fix things. It is TFF! Sorry but it is!

[BuffaloBob]

As I've said many times before,

the only stat that matters is wins vs. losses.

Any other stat can be twisted...

39377[/snapback]

 

Yes, well that is a clever way to avoid the issue that your opinions are not based on substance, but anyone with half a brain can see through it.

 

When I saw a much smaller Raiders LB throw Mike Williams

aside like a rag doll on his way to poor Drew,

I finally had seen enough.

39377[/snapback]

He caught Mike off-balance. Not one of Mike's finer moments but it happens. But I like the way you embellish it with the "tossing him aside like a rag doll" exaggeration. It could almost work except no one, and especially a linebacker tosses 380 pounds like a rag doll. Please, we get enough of these tall tales from Sullivan.

[Rico]

He caught Mike off-balance.  Not one of Mike's finer moments

39382[/snapback]

 

 

KEEP HOPE ALIVE

[nick in* england]

I love this debate...

 

I'd like to think that we can cure the O by moving Mike Williams to guard and having Price start at tackle. But I just don't belive this is the answer.

 

It seems trite to say it - and I know it's irritating to hear coaches and players say it but it is true - but we just need to get better in every phase of the offensive game right now (true of the D also). Bledsoe needs to gett the ball away. Recievers need to run better routes and get separation. The backs need to pick up blocks correctly. The line needs to hit some people and get their assignments right. The coaches need to make better calls.

 

The DL needs to get a better pass rush. The safeties need to be better in coverage. The LBs need to be better in coverage. We need to be better aware of the other team and what they are doing.

 

We just need to be better. This is NOT going to be solved by playing merry go round with buys on the line - or in any other position. The coaches have to motivate and coach. The players have to respond. If we end the season 0-16, thats when we cut guys, we move them around we invest time of positional coaching and fundamentals. This is the NFL regular season - we use the bye week to improve on what we did well - and to correct our playing mistakes.

 

Leave the Front Office junk to the offseason and lets play some Bills Football.

[CircleTheWagons]

I'm not making excuses for Big Mike, but he's probably just starting to get himself in game shape after the sorry offseason he had.

 

I've always said (well once ) that our season starts with the NE game. I committed to giving the team and coaches the first two weeks as an extended preseason.

 

After the NE game, if we continue to play like we have, MW will be only 1 of 11 offensive guys I want moved/benched/traded.

 

Of course, I expect the Bills to play more focussed with a big division game at home.