The OFFENSIVE line

[bflo83]

Based on recent history it appears that our o-line can run block adequately but as a unit their pass protection blows. We just do not have the right horses up front to be an elite team.

 

What drives me crazy is the Pats lose their starting LT and now have two rookies on their front five and Tom Brady still has enough time back there to go through ALL his reads, scratch himself and still find the open man.

 

It all starts with the men on the offensive line and this group is making our talented skill players look very average. The shame is that this team has not put a priority on quality offensive line players for the last ten years. Since drafting Ruben Brown in the first round of the 95 draft, here are the Bills o-line draft picks:

 

player - round - year - total number of picks for Bills that year

Dusty Ziegler 6th round - 1996 (10)

Jamie Nails 4-1997 (6)

Marcus Spriggs 6-1997 (6)

Robert Hicks 3-1998 (6)

Victor Allotey 7-1998 (6)

1999-none (9)

2000-none (8)

Jonas Jennings 3-2001 (12)

Marques Sullivan 5-2001 (12)

Mike Williams 1-2002 (10)

Mike Pucillo 7-2002 (10)

Ben Sobieski 5-2003 (8)

Dylan McFarland 7-2004 (6)

Duke Preston 4-2005 (6)

Justin Geisinger 6-2005 (6)

 

Add in our free agent pick ups like Joe Panos, Kris Farris & Trey Teague and that is some serious crap. I'm still hoping Big Mike can develop into the dominant player he should be but a #4 overall pick should already be well established by this point in his career. The jury is still out on Chris V. although getting "winded" during today's last drive is unacceptable. Bennie Anderson and Mike Gandy seem average at best (see last year's Lawrence Smith and Ross Tucker as reference points) . Duke Preston has some upside but is probably not ready for prime time just yet.

 

Until the Bills get the right players in the right scheme they will be mediocre and will not be going back to the playoffs. Coach McNally may be good but he doesn't walk on water and he won't perform any miracles with this group.

 

It was so nice when we had Wolford-Richter-Hull-Parker- Ballard on that front line....

 

Sorry, had to vent - Go Bills!

[dave mcbride]

Based on recent history it appears that our o-line can run block adequately but as a unit their pass protection blows. We just do not have the right horses up front to be an elite team.

 

What drives me crazy is the Pats lose their starting LT and now have two rookies on their front five and Tom Brady still has enough time back there to go through ALL his reads, scratch himself and still find the open man.

 

It all starts with the men on the offensive line and this group is making our talented skill players look very average.  The shame is that this team has not put a priority on quality offensive line players for the last ten years.  Since drafting Ruben Brown in the first round of the 95 draft, here are the Bills o-line draft picks:

 

player - round - year - total number of picks for Bills that year

Dusty Ziegler 6th round - 1996 (10)

Jamie Nails 4-1997 (6)

Marcus Spriggs 6-1997 (6)

Robert Hicks 3-1998 (6)

Victor Allotey 7-1998 (6)

1999-none (9)

2000-none (8)

Jonas Jennings 3-2001 (12)

Marques Sullivan 5-2001 (12)

Mike Williams 1-2002 (10)

Mike Pucillo 7-2002 (10)

Ben Sobieski 5-2003 (8)

Dylan McFarland 7-2004 (6)

Duke Preston 4-2005 (6)

Justin Geisinger 6-2005 (6)

 

Add in our free agent pick ups like Joe Panos, Kris Farris & Trey Teague and that is some serious crap. I'm still hoping Big Mike can develop into the dominant player he should be but a #4 overall pick should already be well established by this point in his career. The jury is still out on Chris V. although getting "winded" during today's last drive is unacceptable. Bennie Anderson and Mike Gandy seem average at best (see last year's Lawrence Smith and Ross Tucker as reference points) . Duke Preston has some upside but is probably not ready for prime time just yet.

 

Until the Bills get the right players in the right scheme they will be mediocre and will not be going back to the playoffs. Coach McNally may be good but he doesn't walk on water and he won't perform any miracles with this group.

 

It was so nice when we had Wolford-Richter-Hull-Parker- Ballard on that front line....

 

Sorry, had to vent - Go Bills!

454352[/snapback]

 

the last year the bills offensive line was really good was 92 -- wolford's last year. richter was a shell in 93, his final year. ballard was never great, and started really getting exposed in 92 or so. fina took over in 93; nuff said there. thurman averaged under 4 yards/carry for the first time in 93, and the sacks of jimbo really started to pile up in 94. the bills were royally screwed the way they lost wolford to the colts, and the flawed process necessitated a league rules change regarding franchise players. he was by far and away the best player on the line, and his departure was the beginning of the end of good offensive line play for the bills. they've never had a great LT since (the best they've had was jennings).

[Wiz]

the last year the bills offensive line was really good was 92 -- wolford's last year. richter was a shell in 93, his final year. ballard was never great, and started really getting exposed in 92 or so.  fina took over in 93; nuff said there. thurman averaged under 4 yards/carry for the first time in 93, and the sacks of jimbo really started to pile up in 94. the bills were royally screwed the way they lost wolford to the colts, and the flawed process necessitated a league rules change regarding franchise players.  he was by far and away the best player on the line, and his departure was the beginning of the end of good offensive line play for the bills. they've never had a great LT since (the best they've had was jennings).

454424[/snapback]

Right. After Wolford left and we moved John Fina, a college guard to LT, it began the spiral downward.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

We're a bit thin at OT, but I think we're in OK shape.

 

I didn't have to see the game to know that Coach Clements came in with a sound gameplan today. Saw some hi-lites of Willis taking it between the tackles a couple times for good gains - taking what they're giving - the middle! How do you run your star RB for over 100 yards when everyone in the building knows he's getting the ball? How bad can the O line be?

 

This kind of day running the ball will pay dividends. Future D coordinators now face the problem of where to commit their men to defend McGahee's outside game. They will bring their safties up, or roll them over to allow the CBs to give outside run support. I'm sure TC expected this kind of run production to allow play-action to freeze some coverages for JP. Seeing the numbers, I know JP had little success throwing all day, so I'm guessing he still wasn't finding anything he recognised.

 

A poster pointed out the lack of play-action last week, and was promptly informed that play-action, in the absence of any running game, was useless. So I'll take this opportunity to ask all who watched this game and may have noticed... Did we integrate PA into the O, and where did JP go with the ball?

[bflo83]

We also let Parker go thru free agency. He ended up being a steady performer for the Chiefs and Giants for another 4-5 years.

[Kelly the Dog]

We have two new starters, not counting arguably our best OL out for the game, the third of the season. Willis had his career high rushing and it wasn't distorted by a 60 yard run, but a lot of 6 and 11 yarders. JP had a lot of time to throw, especially in the first half, and had plenty of time to throw most of the game. What, exactly, was the problem with the OL? They didnt have perfect run blocking and pass protection on every play the entire game? yeah, there were 3-4 plays that there was a jailbreak. Watch a littleNFL football and virtually every game on every team you will see that. Our OL was played easily well enought to win this game. The DL was another story.

[Bill from NYC]

>>>>We're a bit thin at OT, but I think we're in OK shape.<<<<

 

I agree. Opposing defensive linemen and coordinators are intimidated by Gandy and Jerman and must spend weeks preparing for them.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

>>>>We're a bit thin at OT, but I think we're in OK shape.<<<<

 

I agree. Opposing defensive linemen and coordinators are intimidated by Gandy and Jerman and must spend weeks preparing for them.

454492[/snapback]

 

Sarcasm aside, as a D coach/coordinator you have a limited amount of time to deduct what your opponent's O does well and not so well. My point is that our roster is thin at the OT spot. We have kids and 'tweeners filling out the depth chart. I don't think our talent is superior than other teams, but I don't think it's as inferior a group that some of you are making them out to be.

 

I was one of the TBDers hoping that LJ Shelton would find his way into that LT spot. I still believe him to be a sound, experienced player, but he got beat like a drum by the Colt's Freeney today.

 

BTW, what about that play-action question. Any insights?

[Bill from NYC]

Sarcasm aside, as a D coach/coordinator you have a limited amount of time to deduct what your opponent's O does well and not so well.  My point is that our roster is thin at the OT spot.  We have kids and 'tweeners filling out the depth chart. I don't think our talent is superior than other teams, but I don't think it's as inferior a group that some of you are making them out to be. 

 

I was one of the TBDers hoping that LJ Shelton would find his way into that LT spot.  I still believe him to be a sound, experienced player, but he got beat like a drum by the Colt's Freeney today. 

 

BTW, what about that play-action question.  Any insights?

454509[/snapback]

 

I need to watch it again, but I seem to recall JP getting hammered on one particular play action attempt.

JP simply didn't get it done today. He isn't getting the ball to Evans nor Moulds, and our biggest passing gains were the result of penalties.

He threw a nice ball to Aiken who was in motion, but I don't recall if it was play action.

[jayg]

>>>>We're a bit thin at OT, but I think we're in OK shape.<<<<

 

I agree. Opposing defensive linemen and coordinators are intimidated by Gandy and Jerman and must spend weeks preparing for them.

454492[/snapback]

 

 

[AJ1]

Sarcasm aside, as a D coach/coordinator you have a limited amount of time to deduct what your opponent's O does well and not so well.  My point is that our roster is thin at the OT spot.  We have kids and 'tweeners filling out the depth chart. I don't think our talent is superior than other teams, but I don't think it's as inferior a group that some of you are making them out to be. 

 

I was one of the TBDers hoping that LJ Shelton would find his way into that LT spot.  I still believe him to be a sound, experienced player, but he got beat like a drum by the Colt's Freeney today. 

 

BTW, what about that play-action question.  Any insights?

454509[/snapback]

 

I remember one, maybe two attempts, to no effect. To those of you that think TC is calling a good game, I believe you are hallucinating. I don't know what they're doing to JP's mind but whatever it is, it isn't working.

[jarthur31]

Based on recent history it appears that our o-line can run block adequately but as a unit their pass protection blows. We just do not have the right horses up front to be an elite team.

 

What drives me crazy is the Pats lose their starting LT and now have two rookies on their front five and Tom Brady still has enough time back there to go through ALL his reads, scratch himself and still find the open man.

 

It all starts with the men on the offensive line and this group is making our talented skill players look very average.  The shame is that this team has not put a priority on quality offensive line players for the last ten years.  Since drafting Ruben Brown in the first round of the 95 draft, here are the Bills o-line draft picks:

 

player - round - year - total number of picks for Bills that year

Dusty Ziegler 6th round - 1996 (10)

Jamie Nails 4-1997 (6)

Marcus Spriggs 6-1997 (6)

Robert Hicks 3-1998 (6)

Victor Allotey 7-1998 (6)

1999-none (9)

2000-none (8)

Jonas Jennings 3-2001 (12)

Marques Sullivan 5-2001 (12)

Mike Williams 1-2002 (10)

Mike Pucillo 7-2002 (10)

Ben Sobieski 5-2003 (8)

Dylan McFarland 7-2004 (6)

Duke Preston 4-2005 (6)

Justin Geisinger 6-2005 (6)

 

Add in our free agent pick ups like Joe Panos, Kris Farris & Trey Teague and that is some serious crap. I'm still hoping Big Mike can develop into the dominant player he should be but a #4 overall pick should already be well established by this point in his career. The jury is still out on Chris V. although getting "winded" during today's last drive is unacceptable. Bennie Anderson and Mike Gandy seem average at best (see last year's Lawrence Smith and Ross Tucker as reference points) . Duke Preston has some upside but is probably not ready for prime time just yet.

 

Until the Bills get the right players in the right scheme they will be mediocre and will not be going back to the playoffs. Coach McNally may be good but he doesn't walk on water and he won't perform any miracles with this group.

 

It was so nice when we had Wolford-Richter-Hull-Parker- Ballard on that front line....

 

Sorry, had to vent - Go Bills!

454352[/snapback]

 

 

I don't know why this continues to surprise everyone on this board. Me and Fez kept pointing this out last year but were continually ridiculed for it. It seems that our immobile QB had nothing to do with the crappy offensive performances after all.

[BB2004]

Based on recent history it appears that our o-line can run block adequately but as a unit their pass protection blows. We just do not have the right horses up front to be an elite team.

 

What drives me crazy is the Pats lose their starting LT and now have two rookies on their front five and Tom Brady still has enough time back there to go through ALL his reads, scratch himself and still find the open man.

 

It all starts with the men on the offensive line and this group is making our talented skill players look very average.  The shame is that this team has not put a priority on quality offensive line players for the last ten years.  Since drafting Ruben Brown in the first round of the 95 draft, here are the Bills o-line draft picks:

 

player - round - year - total number of picks for Bills that year

Dusty Ziegler 6th round - 1996 (10)

Jamie Nails 4-1997 (6)

Marcus Spriggs 6-1997 (6)

Robert Hicks 3-1998 (6)

Victor Allotey 7-1998 (6)

1999-none (9)

2000-none (8)

Jonas Jennings 3-2001 (12)

Marques Sullivan 5-2001 (12)

Mike Williams 1-2002 (10)

Mike Pucillo 7-2002 (10)

Ben Sobieski 5-2003 (8)

Dylan McFarland 7-2004 (6)

Duke Preston 4-2005 (6)

Justin Geisinger 6-2005 (6)

 

Add in our free agent pick ups like Joe Panos, Kris Farris & Trey Teague and that is some serious crap. I'm still hoping Big Mike can develop into the dominant player he should be but a #4 overall pick should already be well established by this point in his career. The jury is still out on Chris V. although getting "winded" during today's last drive is unacceptable. Bennie Anderson and Mike Gandy seem average at best (see last year's Lawrence Smith and Ross Tucker as reference points) . Duke Preston has some upside but is probably not ready for prime time just yet.

 

Until the Bills get the right players in the right scheme they will be mediocre and will not be going back to the playoffs. Coach McNally may be good but he doesn't walk on water and he won't perform any miracles with this group.

 

It was so nice when we had Wolford-Richter-Hull-Parker- Ballard on that front line....

 

Sorry, had to vent - Go Bills!

454352[/snapback]

 

Good post. You listed all of the Bills draft picks along with their free agent pickups and on the offensive line it hasn't been consistent. It would be nice to get a few extra OL lineman who are solid players. Mike Williams eventually will be good, if not great.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

I need to watch it again, but I seem to recall JP getting hammered on one particular play action attempt.

JP simply didn't get it done today. He isn't getting the ball to Evans nor Moulds, and our biggest passing gains were the result of penalties.

He threw a nice ball to Aiken who was in motion, but I don't recall if it was play action.

454521[/snapback]

 

Thanks, Bill. It seems like Clements should have had the Atlanta D right where he wanted them. If we can run the ball, PA can buy JP another second to make his progressions. He may need more than that , but it's a place to start.