The Devil has been extended

[jad1]

Anybody else find it kind of creepy that Wilson extended Donahoes contract last year and only now is it finally leaking out?

 

I mean... who are we Bills fans to expect to get this type of information sooner?The bottom line is this franchise has been built on our backs....don't we deserve better?

 

Is it Wilsons embarassment that he extended a G.M. who under his watch the Bills record has been a paltry 26-38? Or is the won loss record no longer the bottom line?

 

It seems to me that Wilson is now suscribing to the bunker mentality management style that Donahoe uses. If only we knew what Wilson, Donahoe and Modrak know ....then we too could lead a team to a 26-38 record after four years!! Yikes!!

392223[/snapback]

 

Yeah, Donahoe's such an egomanic you'd expect him to be sticking the contract into everybody's face, yelling 'How you like me now?!'

 

And if you can completely restock the roster of an NFL team and post a winning record 4 years later, you're in the wrong line of work. You should be a highly-paid GM.

[Mile High]

What if somehow Donahoe got Clements extended before the season started? Then would opinions change? Imo that would be HUGE.

[Typical TBD Guy]

in all seriousness, if you could swap entire rosters with any team in the league, would you?  it's an all or nothing proposition.  how many teams would you swap with?  philly?  new england?  pittsburgh?  maybe.  anyone else?  not me.

 

despite the "incomplete" TD is a top 5 GM, right now.  of course that's just my opinion.

392040[/snapback]

 

Great post, eball. The only part I disagree with is the one I highlighted here.

 

The question of swapping teams is a somewhat hollow one to me because, IMO, I don't think anyone here would want to swap the Bills roster with any other if given the opportunity. I wouldn't. Not even the Pats roster. The Bills roster is OUR roster. We've grown used to cheering for them. Cheering for Pats players in Bills uniforms is hard to envision. In our heads, it'd still be like cheering for the Pats team. Now ask me if I'd like to trade for any other teams' ACCOMPLISHMENTS, and I could provide a sizable list.

 

And back again to the top 5 talk. My ceaseless complaint has been that this is nothing more than wishful thinking and cannot be backed up with any evidence. A lot of us fans are calling our GM great based on all the great things we're speculating we will/can achieve in the next 2 years. But that's not how things work. IMO, you can't say someone is great and use future predictions as justification. If I called JP Losman a top 5 NFL QB right now, most of you would (rightfully) laugh at me. He COULD be great, and he certainly has the potential, but players don't win accolades on potential. So then why are the standards different for TD than for our players? Here's my final stance on this one: when the Bills make their first AFC Championship game is when I will start calling TD top 5 NFL GM material.

 

The crux of this entire debate lies in defining everyone's standards and expectations for TD's upcoming 5th season. I'm interested to hear everone else's. I already defined mine: barring unusual injury problems or an extremely strong finish to counter an extremely poor start, the Bills must make the playoffs to justify TD's 6th year. Now since I'm feeling particularly cheery this afternoon, I will even say that 9-7 - 10-6 without playoffs is acceptable under the assumption that continuity heading into year 6 is a higher priority than would be the newly raised questions regarding TD's competence as GM.

 

Since I seem to be universally hated around this board, I will also make this promise: no more negative posts about TD ever again (outside this thread). I do, however, maintain my right to occasionally post a link back to this thread to make my point!

 

-KH

[plenzmd1]

Great post, eball. The only part I disagree with is the one I highlighted here.

 

The question of swapping teams is a somewhat hollow one to me because, IMO, I don't think anyone here would want to swap the Bills roster with any other if given the opportunity. I wouldn't. Not even the Pats roster. The Bills roster is OUR roster. We've grown used to cheering for them. Cheering for Pats players in Bills uniforms is hard to envision. In our heads, it'd still be like cheering for the Pats team. Now ask me if I'd like to trade for any other teams' ACCOMPLISHMENTS, and I could provide a sizable list.

 

And back again to the top 5 talk. My ceaseless complaint has been that this is nothing more than wishful thinking and cannot be backed up with any evidence. A lot of us fans are calling our GM great based on all the great things we're speculating we will/can achieve in the next 2 years. But that's not how things work. IMO, you can't say someone is great and use future predictions as justification. If I called JP Losman a top 5 NFL QB right now, most of you would (rightfully) laugh at me. He COULD be great, and he certainly has the potential, but players don't win accolades on potential. So then why are the standards different for TD than for our players? Here's my final stance on this one: when the Bills make their first AFC Championship game is when I will start calling TD top 5 NFL GM material.

 

The crux of this entire debate lies in defining everyone's standards and expectations for TD's upcoming 5th season. I'm interested to hear everone else's. I already defined mine: barring unusual injury problems or an extremely strong finish to counter an extremely poor start, the Bills must make the playoffs to justify TD's 6th year. Now since I'm feeling particularly cheery this afternoon, I will even say that 9-7 - 10-6 without playoffs is acceptable under the assumption that continuity heading into year 6 is a higher priority than would be the newly raised questions regarding TD's competence as GM.

 

Since I seem to be universally hated around this board, I will also make this promise: no more negative posts about TD ever again (outside this thread). I do, however, maintain my right to occasionally post a link back to this thread to make my point!

 

-KH

392309[/snapback]

 

 

Kelso, first off I highly like to read your posts, and the best is to me you make good arguments, even If I do not agree with them. Please keep posting with the same aplomb as before.

 

In regards to TD, I agree we really need to be looking at the entirity of work. What makes it so difficult is I love some of his moves, ala Price and Moorman, but hate others ala GW and Lindell. Then you have the whole D-Wag argument that he will never step to the plate and resign any of his top guys early(outside of morman).

 

So, i will say he has kept me excited about the team, he has ceratinly made the team a success in terms of marketing and filling the seats and excitement in the area. One positive is you never hear the Bills mentioned in the same breath as NO and Jacksonville in terms of relocating to LA. Now when Ralph goes, all bets are off, but at least not happening now. And I think he deserves a lot of the credit for that. And I do believe it is important to remember he runs the WHOLE operation, not just the football operations.

 

So overall, I guess i am just barely over the edge sayiong he has done a good job

[34-78-83]

Since I seem to be universally hated around this board, I will also make this promise: no more negative posts about TD ever again (outside this thread). I do, however, maintain my right to occasionally post a link back to this thread to make my point!

 

-KH

392309[/snapback]

 

Being Hated and having an opposed opinion are two completely different things KH. There is no need for you to make promises about not posting negatively re: TD because then you would be just masking your opinion, no?. A better suggestion might be to post about something you feel good about the Bills occasionally... like you did recently in this very thread. Mix it up a little... But of course I am no central authority on this myself.

[stuckincincy]

I dislike TD. One can argue with merit his draft picks, player acquisitions and dismissals and on and on. There are valid pro and con arguments on either side of the fence.

 

Sports teams are supported by both fan's money and by their emotional capital. When it was obvious in late 2002 and in 2003 that GW/KB were abyssamal, that hang-dog DB was no real solution, TD did nothing. I'd speculate that a cadaver on a cold slab could have woke up and said, "WTF???" about the continuance of the status quo.

 

I believe a man who had any attachement at all to the sport would have faced the situation and shown those coaches the door. Plenty of folks knowledgable about pro ball, and not Bill's acolytes, smelled the odor.

 

TD seemingly could be working in the frozen vegetable industry as well as in pro football...all the same.

[eball]

I dislike TD. One can argue with merit his draft picks, player acquisitions and dismissals and on and on. There are valid pro and con arguments on either side of the fence.

 

Sports teams are supported by both fan's money and by their emotional capital. When it was obvious in late 2002 and in 2003 that GW/KB were abyssamal, that hang-dog DB was no real solution, TD did nothing. I'd speculate that a cadaver on a cold slab could have woke up and said, "WTF???" about the continuance of the status quo.

 

I believe a man who had any attachement at all to the sport would have faced the situation and shown those coaches the door. Plenty of folks knowledgable about pro ball, and not Bill's acolytes, smelled the odor.

 

TD seemingly could be working in the frozen vegetable industry as well as in pro football...all the same.

392495[/snapback]

wow. i couldn't disagree more. i think you fail to realize that TD believes in letting his coaches coach. the decision to hire assistants rests with the HC. despite what some people still think, TD is not an egomaniac. he made the decision to hire GW, upgraded the team's roster after 2001, and he allowed GW to sink or swim with the coaches he chose. true, TD believed that bledsoe could revive the franchise and possibly play for 4 or 5 years. he was wrong. he drafted a QB last year b/c he saw that; it's not his fault losman was hurt in TC and couldn't step in earlier.

 

unattached to football? that's preposterous, and not supported by anything we've seen.

 

honestly, i think you're missing the boat with those statements.

[jad1]

I dislike TD. One can argue with merit his draft picks, player acquisitions and dismissals and on and on. There are valid pro and con arguments on either side of the fence.

 

Sports teams are supported by both fan's money and by their emotional capital. When it was obvious in late 2002 and in 2003 that GW/KB were abyssamal, that hang-dog DB was no real solution, TD did nothing. I'd speculate that a cadaver on a cold slab could have woke up and said, "WTF???" about the continuance of the status quo.

 

I believe a man who had any attachement at all to the sport would have faced the situation and shown those coaches the door. Plenty of folks knowledgable about pro ball, and not Bill's acolytes, smelled the odor.

 

TD seemingly could be working in the frozen vegetable industry as well as in pro football...all the same.

392495[/snapback]

 

Yeah, his handling of the coaching situation in mid-2003 is my biggest criticism of him. In my opinion, Williams was definitely not on board with the type of team Donahoe wanted to build, and that became more and more evident as 2003 rolled along.

 

In my opinion, though, it's a forgivable sin, because I'm not certain that a change could have saved the season, and it's uncertain to what extent it would have affected his decision to hire Mularkey the next season. Les Steckel or Dick LeBeau could have won a few games, but were they really the long-term solution for HC?

 

It could have also split the locker room if the interim coach proved popular. So in the long run, staying with Williams might have given a measure of stablity to the team. The only veteren lost during Williams flame-out was Rueben Brown.

 

And while we're both disappointed with the patience he showed with Williams, you have to admit that the same patience he showed Mularkey during the 0-4 start has paid off.

 

I often wondered if Bledsoe wasn't here, who would have taken his place? Would the Bills been better off last season with Garcia, Brunnell, or Warner. It's hard to say.

 

While Bledsoe was hardly the franchise savior many wanted him to be, he did provide stability at the QB position, which enabled Donahoe to build a team around him. The rebuilding process would have been severely damaged the last 3 years if the Bills had to spend draft picks and cap money on a QB-of-the-month club.

 

Bledsoe allowed Donahoe to build up other areas of the team, and let him pick his spot to draft his sucessor. To his credit, the team he has built outgrew Bledsoe.

 

Despite the Williams setback, Donahoe has managed to keep the team on an upward curve. He's stocked the team with solid veteren FAs, and has drafted a good young core of players. And he's done a great job recovering from the necessary firing of Williams.

 

Donahoe's made mistakes, as every GM does, but he's made strong recoverys from them. I believe that's a sign of a good GM.

[stuckincincy]

Yeah, his handling of the coaching situation in mid-2003 is my biggest criticism of him.  In my opinion, Williams was definitely not on board with the type of team Donahoe wanted to build, and that became more and more evident as 2003 rolled along.

 

In my opinion, though, it's a forgivable sin, because I'm not certain that a change could have saved the season, and it's uncertain to what extent it would have affected his decision to hire Mularkey the next season.  Les Steckel or Dick LeBeau could have won a few games, but were they really the long-term solution for HC?

 

It could have also split the locker room if the interim coach proved popular.  So in the long run, staying with Williams might have given a measure of stablity to the team.  The only veteren lost during Williams flame-out was Rueben Brown.

 

And while we're both disappointed with the patience he showed with Williams, you have to admit that the same patience he showed Mularkey during the 0-4 start has paid off.

 

I often wondered if Bledsoe wasn't here, who would have taken his place?  Would the Bills been better off last season with Garcia, Brunnell, or Warner.  It's hard to say. 

 

While Bledsoe was hardly the franchise savior many wanted him to be, he did provide stability at the QB position, which enabled Donahoe to build a team around him.  The rebuilding process would have been severely damaged the last 3 years if the Bills had to spend draft picks and cap money on a QB-of-the-month club.

 

Bledsoe allowed Donahoe to build up other areas of the team, and let him pick his spot to draft his sucessor.  To his credit, the team he has built outgrew Bledsoe.

 

Despite the Williams setback, Donahoe has managed to keep the team on an upward curve.  He's stocked the team with solid veteren FAs, and has drafted a good young core of players.  And he's done a great job recovering from the necessary firing of Williams. 

 

Donahoe's made mistakes, as every GM does, but he's made strong recoverys from them.  I believe that's a sign of a good GM.

392544[/snapback]

 

 

Fair comments, jad...I also hope for some progress.

[stuckincincy]

wow.  i couldn't disagree more.  i think you fail to realize that TD believes in letting his coaches coach.  the decision to hire assistants rests with the HC.  despite what some people still think, TD is not an egomaniac.  he made the decision to hire GW, upgraded the team's roster after 2001, and he allowed GW to sink or swim with the coaches he chose.  true, TD believed that bledsoe could revive the franchise and possibly play for 4 or 5 years.  he was wrong.  he drafted a QB last year b/c he saw that; it's not his fault losman was hurt in TC and couldn't step in earlier.

 

unattached to football?  that's preposterous, and not supported by anything we've seen.

 

honestly, i think you're missing the boat with those statements.

392524[/snapback]

 

You may be right, I've missed ocean liners!

 

I'm not about breaking any poster's stones here. I just hold the opinion that TD is not imbued with football spirit, and that letting hirees sink or swim to the detriment (in my view) of a very loyal constituiency is less than I would expect. With rank comes responsibilities.

 

I'd really like for him to *explode* some time about bad calls or exclaim that that cur I hired is going onto better opportunities.

 

Football is a unique sport - a combination of faultless coordination between 11 folks facing 11 others of like mind, and at the same time knowing that unless it's played with wild abandon you are sunk.

 

I just feel that the #1 qualification in a GM is that you be a zealot - you can be quiet about it, but I think the really good ones secretly want to be out there making that into-the-stands-block or the "holy smokes!" open-field tackle.

 

2 cents, no more...

[eball]

I just feel that the #1 qualification in a GM is that you be a zealot - you can be quiet about it, but I think the really good ones secretly want to be out there making that into-the-stands-block or the "holy smokes!" open-field tackle.

 

2 cents, no more...

392578[/snapback]

the funny thing is, i agree with you -- and i think TD does have that quality! i'm willing to bet that he goes ballistic during ballgames. but i think he has another, equally important quality -- loyalty. TD believes that embarrassing an employee is the wrong way to do things. it's why he didn't "fire" GW, he just didn't rehire him. i'm sure that cutting bledsoe was very tough for him to do, but he did it.

 

i think TD is a classy guy and one i'm proud to have running the organization of the team i live and die with every week. and i think he is as passionate about the game of football as you and i both want him to be.

 

TRAINING CAMP STARTS TOMORROW!!!

[stuckincincy]

TRAINING CAMP STARTS TOMORROW!!! 

392612[/snapback]

 

Yep!

 

That will probably ease the fratricide of the last few days!

[eball]

I just feel that the #1 qualification in a GM is that you be a zealot - you can be quiet about it, but I think the really good ones secretly want to be out there making that into-the-stands-block or the "holy smokes!" open-field tackle.

392578[/snapback]

stuck, here's a quote from mularkey in this morning's D&C (article on TBD) --

 

"I'm never satisfied and I don't want to be around people who are," he said. "Give me guys who are satisfied with what they're doing and you'll see complacency and a downward spiral. Tom Donahoe is a perfect example. He wants to always be better, and those are the people he's surrounded me with."

 

----------------------

 

man, isn't it great to wake up and find about 10 new articles to read? football season has now officially started!