Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: If you were paying attention, you'd know his issue is not with the player, but with the move the current office made. So yeah, it extremely relevant considering that history is the best indicator of the future. It shows a lot of them, they're beliefs and pricess. Exactly. McWrestler and Mr Bean are still here, and it's fair to ask where they have driven us. Part of that process is looking at the players they've released. Quote I'd love to see a running list of moves, from trades to personnel to starting roles, that could be reviewed wholistically. Maybe in isolation moves may look good or bad, but I'd be curious to see how they look meshed together I'll get it started, perhaps other folks can add. Going back after McWrestler was hired: Move - Offense Result Comment Low tender on Gillislee 44 YPG, 3.6 YPA $3.5M from Pats. in theory, we could find other guys, but we haven't Release Jon Williams now on Saints good enough for 3rd rush attack in league, not good enough for us Release Cyrus Kouandjio now on Denver did OK for Glenn last year. we could get someone better, but we didn't signed Dion Dawkins Castillo loves him I shudder Don't sign Robert Woods 70 YPG, 15+ Y/R, 67% catch 5 year, $39M from Rams; he seems to be living up to it. late Trade of Watkins 41 YPG, 17.7 Y/R, 62% catch going to want big money next year, Taylor would throw to him in coverage. Don't sign Marquise Goodwin 50 YPG, 21.7 Y/R, 41% catch 2 year, $6M from 49ers. I miss him least, but we didn't replace him Release Kolby Listenbee on Dolphins as WR supposed to be Goodwin's "burner" replacement. not playing, can't tell signed Mike Tolbert 20 YPG, 3.6 YPA as our only option to McCoy, he does not impress Acquire Jordan Matthews 32 YPG, 12 Y/R, 73% catch has missed 2 games injured. good player, but $1M only signed this year. signed Deonte Thompson 51 YPG, 15.6 Y/R, 68% catch missed 2 games. looks like good player, only signed for this year. 6 yr vet Acquire Kelvin Benjamin 31 YPG, 15.5 Y/R, 57% catch a much better player than that shows. due $8.5M next year Move - Defense let Zach Brown walk starting for Redskins 1 year, $2.3M signed Micah Hyde the best signing, IMO 5 year, $30.5 M: $8M bonus, age 27. I give them props for this trade Ragland for pick starting for KC Reid likes him against the run, but Chiefs L 4 of last 5 Let Gilmore walk starting for NE NE prolly unhappy with value, starting for this year's possible AFC champs Trade Darby starting for Philly injured, looking like a key contributor to this year's possible NFC champs Acquire EJ Gaines played 6 missed 5 games good player, but $1.7M/1 year rental not looking like great value Trade Dareus starting for Jags attitude, overpaid, and our D went to hell in a handcart after he left. Overall, I think the roster moves have to qualify as a mixed bag. We gave up talent, we've acquired some talent, but a lot of the talent we let go was young n' cheap and a lot of the talent we've acquired is 1 year rental. People who were or are, all "Whaley sucked, look at all his draftees and acquisitions flying off the roster" do need to look at where those guys wound up and how they are doing. It does appear most of them can play. If anyone knows how to put a table into the new TBD lmk - this would be a lot easier as a table. Edited November 20, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan formatting, added comment, added Zach Brown and Ragland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: This ^ Guys like Watkins, Darby, and Dareus hadn’t helped us win anything. An argument could be made that we should have kept them to build around, but it’s not as if we lost consistently great players. I was on board with the trades in the beginning. Somewhere along the way, the process became muddled. It didn’t make sense to let Watkins go, only to trade for a receiver. We were said to be accumulating draft choices. Why would we give them away in a win now move ? Why keep a very “non-process” guy like Incognito? Why keep McCoy on the roster? He’s a guy who is too old to be part of future success. The process seemed like something that hadn’t been seen in Buffalo during it’s early stages. At this point, the process seems to have no direction. Yeah, we know ... the Bills only got rid of scrubs and kept the diamonds in the rough. Tell that to Marcel Dareus, Ronald Darby, Mike Gillislee, Stephon Gilmore, Sammy Watkins, and Robert Woods who all look to be playoff bound. 8 minutes ago, Azucho98 said: The "current office" has been here for what 11 months? I don't think its quite time to throw them under the bus. Perhaps they actually know what they are doing. Only time will tell. Time has already told. They reduced a modestly talented team to an expansion franchise in 11 months. That's probably some kind of record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, SoTier said: Yeah, we know ... the Bills only got rid of scrubs and kept the diamonds in the rough. Tell that to Marcel Dareus, Ronald Darby, Mike Gillislee, Stephon Gilmore, Sammy Watkins, and Robert Woods who all look to be playoff bound. Time has already told. They reduced a modestly talented team to an expansion franchise in 11 months. That's probably some kind of record. That's pretty much where I am. For a while, it looked as though they improved the D and ruined the O, but now both sides look busted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 51 minutes ago, SoTier said: Yeah, we know ... the Bills only got rid of scrubs and kept the diamonds in the rough. Tell that to Marcel Dareus, Ronald Darby, Mike Gillislee, Stephon Gilmore, Sammy Watkins, and Robert Woods who all look to be playoff bound. Time has already told. They reduced a modestly talented team to an expansion franchise in 11 months. That's probably some kind of record. I’m not all in on the current regime, but this team needs a franchise QB, and a legit offense line. This team was always further away than many of you want to believe. None of those teams are going to the playoffs solely because of those former Bills players. Sammy is really tearing it up in LA. LA has a QB, a great D coordinator, an O Line that can block, a great offensive coach, and a defense. We have none of those things. This team needs to be rebuilt from the bottom up. I’m not sure if Beane and McD are the ones to do it, but this team couldn’t win with Tom Brady. It’s more complicated than just letting those guys go. Lets all be real. This season was supposed to be a tank from the start. There are too many disappointed posters who were given false hope by the hot start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 hours ago, unclepete said: The Bills are a joke. Darby always looked good. Young talent shouldn't be discarded. You adjust your scheme to fit the talent. Not gamble on the draft. We drafted and developed Woods, Dareus, Watkins and Darby just to watch them flourish elsewhere in their primes. McDermott isn't a Bills fan so he hasn't had to endure this ineptitude. But you don't see Belichick trading away prime talent. He just adjust his scheme to maximize it. What a joke Watkins isn’t really “flourishing” with his 24 catches through ten games. I understand the view that this team shouldn’t have rid itself of all its talent. Letting Watkins, Woods,Dareus, and Darby were questionable moves, but this team needs help in many areas. We aren’t going anywhere until we build a team who can win in the trenches. Those extra draft picks need to be used to do so. It’s fair to be unhappy with the decisions to let some of our best talent walk, but at times people overestimate how valuable they were imo. We need more than just those guys remaining on the roster. Losing those guys doesn’t impact us as much in the present as it will in the future imo. We can only judge the true impact of those trades several years down the road. If we build an offensive line, find a QB, and we struggle due to lack of receivers or the like, those trades will look really bad. Currently there isn’t much those guys could do to help. This team is too much of a train wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayjent Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Exactly. McWrestler and Mr Bean are still here, and it's fair to ask where they have driven us. Part of that process is looking at the players they've released. I'll get it started, perhaps other folks can add. Going back after McWrestler was hired: Move - Offense Result Comment Low tender on Gillislee 44 YPG, 3.6 YPA $3.5M from Pats. in theory, we could find other guys, but we haven't Release Jon Williams now on Saints good enough for 3rd rush attack in league, not good enough for us Release Cyrus Kouandjio now on Denver did OK for Glenn last year. we could get someone better, but we didn't signed Dion Dawkins Castillo loves him I shudder Don't sign Robert Woods 70 YPG, 15+ Y/R, 67% catch 5 year, $39M from Rams; he seems to be living up to it. late Trade of Watkins 41 YPG, 17.7 Y/R, 62% catch going to want big money next year, Taylor would throw to him in coverage. Don't sign Marquise Goodwin 50 YPG, 21.7 Y/R, 41% catch 2 year, $6M from 49ers. I miss him least, but we didn't replace him Release Kolby Listenbee on Dolphins as WR supposed to be Goodwin's "burner" replacement. not playing, can't tell signed Mike Tolbert 20 YPG, 3.6 YPA as our only option to McCoy, he does not impress Acquire Jordan Matthews 32 YPG, 12 Y/R, 73% catch has missed 2 games injured. good player, but $1M only signed this year. signed Deonte Thompson 51 YPG, 15.6 Y/R, 68% catch missed 2 games. looks like good player, only signed for this year. 6 yr vet Acquire Kelvin Benjamin 31 YPG, 15.5 Y/R, 57% catch a much better player than that shows. due $8.5M next year Move - Defense let Zach Brown walk starting for Redskins 1 year, $2.3M signed Micah Hyde the best signing, IMO 5 year, $30.5 M: $8M bonus, age 27. I give them props for this trade Ragland for pick starting for KC Reid likes him against the run, but Chiefs L 4 of last 5 Let Gilmore walk starting for NE NE prolly unhappy with value, starting for this year's possible AFC champs Trade Darby starting for Philly injured, looking like a key contributor to this year's possible NFC champs Acquire EJ Gaines played 6 missed 5 games good player, but $1.7M/1 year rental not looking like great value Trade Dareus starting for Jags attitude, overpaid, and our D went to hell in a handcart after he left. Overall, I think the roster moves have to qualify as a mixed bag. We gave up talent, we've acquired some talent, but a lot of the talent we let go was young n' cheap and a lot of the talent we've acquired is 1 year rental. People who were or are, all "Whaley sucked, look at all his draftees and acquisitions flying off the roster" do need to look at where those guys wound up and how they are doing. It does appear most of them can play. If anyone knows how to put a table into the new TBD lmk - this would be a lot easier as a table. You have to wonder if the trade of Dareus didnt lose the locker room, and the Front Office and Staff have been scrambling ever since (trading for Benjamin, benching Taylor). I would think not, but Im sure we will know more as time goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 32 minutes ago, Ayjent said: You have to wonder if the trade of Dareus didnt lose the locker room, and the Front Office and Staff have been scrambling ever since (trading for Benjamin, benching Taylor). I would think not, but Im sure we will know more as time goes on. I kind of wonder that too, simply based on the fall-off in run D. 59 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: Watkins isn’t really “flourishing” with his 24 catches through ten games. I understand the view that this team shouldn’t have rid itself of all its talent. Letting Watkins, Woods,Dareus, and Darby were questionable moves, but this team needs help in many areas. We aren’t going anywhere until we build a team who can win in the trenches. Those extra draft picks need to be used to do so. It’s fair to be unhappy with the decisions to let some of our best talent walk, but at times people overestimate how valuable they were imo. We need more than just those guys remaining on the roster. Losing those guys doesn’t impact us as much in the present as it will in the future imo. We can only judge the true impact of those trades several years down the road. If we build an offensive line, find a QB, and we struggle due to lack of receivers or the like, those trades will look really bad. Currently there isn’t much those guys could do to help. This team is too much of a train wreck. I was kind of there until I looked harder (see other post this thread). Overall, after looking, I'm under-impressed with a lot of our trades. We let a lot of young talent go in favor of a lot of one year rentals, looks like to me. And the FO hasn't exactly impressed with the choices to shore up the trenches - Dion Dawkins, Vlad Ducasse on OL, all the guys we brought in on DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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