Travis Henry for LJ Shelton?

[JP-era]

I don't know about all that.  Having the market set is one thing, but trying to set your own market is another.

 

I don't remember the numbers anymore, but St. Loius tried offering Pace a contract that would have made him the highest paid LT in the league, and the highest paid player on his team.  He turned it down.

 

I don't remember hearing much about Jones' contract negotiations, but I know Pace is asking for WAY too damn much money.  Those kinds of contracts kill a team, and I wouldn't want any part of a player that demands that much.  There is no way one player can make up for that much lost salary cap space, no matter what position they play.

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I understand your point. But, if the LT spot is NOT viewed to be a very very critical one, why have STL and Sea franchised Jones and Pace year after year after year?

 

I agree its a mess, and Im by no means saying the players arent part of the problem and that its all the teams fault. But, come on, no one could manage to set the damn market 3 years in a row? And in the meantime the players have to go through all this contract crap every damn off-season? And cant test the FA market? How long should this go on for?

 

I think it ends this year with Walter Jones leaving, signing somewhere which instantly sets the market for Pace's negotiations.

[JP-era]

Watch Jp-idiot will start calling you names now.

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Hey, I didnt start it man.

 

You could have made your point WITHOUT all the attitude! How about showing me the slightest amount of respect, Ill return the favor.

[Bill from NYC]

Hey, I agree with you about teams not parting with STUD LT's. My arguement is that Jennings is set to leave, so the Bills apparently dont feel they MUST hang on to their LT. AND Shelton is NOT worth Henry straight up!

 

Its a DREAM to think any team will trade us a LT and a 3rd rounder for Henry, but crazy stuff does happen, ask Ditka about getting Ricky!

 

Its more likely that it would be Henry for LJ plus a 5th or 6th.

 

I just feel like with our cap situation, decent depth, and already solid team in most areas, we should spend some dough on a few studs. a serious upgrade on the o-line with a few studs would be, by far, the best move for this team. Especially if they plan to start Losman, it could mean the difference between a 8 and 8 or worse season and the playoffs at say 9 and 6. If Losman has lots of time and isnt rattled, I think he will do pretty damn good. It worked for Pitt!

 

Lots of ifs, but why take a guy who is a sleeper type at THE MOST IMPORTANT o-line position? why not pay, your highest salary on the o-line, to the best player on the o-line in the most important position. Im not sure its wise to take a chance on Shelton at LT. We need a guy we can count on from day one.

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I have no quarrel with you whatsoever on the issue of bringing in Pace, Jones, and or a big name LG. There will never be a time when I am against improving the OL. Cold weather teams require big, talented, nasty OLs. Period.

Where we disagree is the value you place upon Henry. I think there would be, because of his salary, a better chance of getting Surtain than Shelton for Henry and if we did, imo we would certainly have to pony up a draft pick to do so, not get one in return.

Jmo.

[Typical TBD Guy]

I have no quarrel with you whatsoever on the issue of bringing in Pace, Jones, and or a big name LG. There will never be a time when I am against improving the OL. Cold weather teams require big, talented, nasty OLs. Period.

Where we disagree is the value you place upon Henry. I think there would be, because of his salary, getting Surtain than Shelton for Henry and if we did, imo we would certainly have to pony up a draft pick to do so, not get one in return.

Jmo.

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Hey, what do you know? Bill, we finally agree on something!

 

If we want Shelton or Surtain, it would DEFINITELY require more from the Bills than just Henry. I know, I know...supply and demand is a crazy, curious thing...

 

Getting Surtain means probably giving up Clements, and same goes with Shelton and JJ. I'd much rather sign and keep our own, anyway.

 

As for Henry's worth, I still think TD will be able to pull off something like a 3rd AND 4th from a desperate, cavalier Al Davis type.

[VABills]

Hey, I didnt start it man.

 

You could have made your point WITHOUT all the attitude! How about showing me the slightest amount of respect, Ill return the favor.

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I said your football knowledge credibility has got a major chink not and anything you say about anyone including JP should be questioned. Anyone following your advice on Qb should read this thread to understand you don't have a clue about football. LT's are not a dime a dozen like running backs, stars or not. Shelton will not be had for less then a 1st rounder and probably a first plus a 4th or 5th rounder. He is a guy who walked into the league as a highly recruited rookie, mid round LT and started all but something like 1 game for Arizona since 1999 at LT. Until this year he has played healthy and is way above average at LT. If you go research it, Green came in told him he was 10 pounds overweight and gave him basically one day to lose it. Green was being a prick to Shelton and Green moved Davis to LT for the same reason Williams should be playing LT for us. Too much money and too high of a draft pick to play RG which Davis was until this year. Shelton was mistreated by Green and Green is wrong here.

 

This has been all over the sports news since last spring when Green got hired. He basically came in to his press conference and announced Davis was the starting LT. Everyone in business knows Shelton was given the shaft. When he overcame his injury and put back in the lineup this year Arizona put togetherseveral good games. Now he was playing RT, but if you go read the writeups he was noted for his complete dominance in those games. Something that individual linemen are not typically given credit for.

 

Go do some research and other then Dennie Green, who is wrong, this is a second tier LT who is never hurt (until) this year.

[VABills]

Hey, what do you know? Bill, we finally agree on something! 

 

If we want Shelton or Surtain, it would DEFINITELY require more from the Bills than just Henry. I know, I know...supply and demand is a crazy, curious thing...

 

Getting Surtain means probably giving up Clements, and same goes with Shelton and JJ. I'd much rather sign and keep our own, anyway.

 

As for Henry's worth, I still think TD will be able to pull off something like a 3rd AND 4th from a desperate, cavalier Al Davis type.

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I am betting on a 4th but would be happy as hell if he got a third. Shelton is a major upgrade over JJ, and while not in the Pace Ogden, or not even Jones, he is still one of the better ones and was given a raw deal by Green. His leaving may light a fire under him, and show Green how wrong he was and we would get him cheap.

 

I for one, and I repeat it, would give up our 1st next year,e asily for this guy, and if Henry was thrown in so what.

[JP-era]

I said your football knowledge credibility has got a major chink not and anything you say about anyone including JP should be questioned.  Anyone following your advice on Qb should read this thread to understand you don't have a clue about football.  LT's are not a dime a dozen like running backs, stars or not.  Shelton will not be had for less then a 1st rounder and probably a first plus a 4th or 5th rounder.  He is a guy who walked into the league as a highly recruited rookie, mid round LT and started all but something like 1 game for Arizona since 1999 at LT.  Until this year he has played healthy and is way above average at LT.  If you go research it, Green came in told him he was 10 pounds overweight and gave him basically one day to lose it.  Green was being a prick to Shelton and Green moved Davis to LT for the same reason Williams should be playing LT for us.  Too much money and too high of a draft pick to play RG which Davis was until this year.  Shelton was mistreated by Green and Green is wrong here. 

 

This has been all over the sports news since last spring when Green got hired.  He basically came in to his press conference and announced Davis was the starting LT.  Everyone in business knows Shelton was given the shaft.  When he overcame his injury and put back in the lineup this year Arizona put togetherseveral good games.  Now he was playing RT, but if you go read the writeups he was noted for his complete dominance in those games.  Something that individual linemen are not typically given credit for.

 

Go do some research and other then Dennie Green, who is wrong, this is a second tier LT who is never hurt (until) this year.

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Alright fine. I agree, he is a second tier LT. Henry is a previous pro-bowler who puts up 1300+ when he starts. I agree that RB's are easier to find than LT's as far as decent to good ones go. But BOTH are pretty damn hard to find when you have a really good/great one. Henry is right on the borderline of being really good/ great and as you stated Shelton is only second tier.

 

As far as Green goes, I read the info. I understand where you are coming from. Shelton lost the weight and still didnt start. If Green just doesn like him, the question is why? There may be more to the story than what we read. It could be an attitude problem, work ethic, who knows...not me for sure. It just raises a orange..(not red) flag to me. It says, proceed with some caution.

 

And, if you read my response to BillsNYC you would see that my thought on our LT spot is to spend some serious dough and get a stud. I think this is the most important posit on the o-line. Why not get a sure fire, proven great one if available?

 

If you really like Shelton, great, you may know more about the guy than I do. If you like him that much Im sure hes worth your admiration. Im not going to be ticked if we get him by any means. Ima ll for sleepers, I just am worried about taking a "chance" on such an important position.

[Bill from NYC]

Hey, what do you know? Bill, we finally agree on something! 

 

If we want Shelton or Surtain, it would DEFINITELY require more from the Bills than just Henry. I know, I know...supply and demand is a crazy, curious thing...

 

Getting Surtain means probably giving up Clements, and same goes with Shelton and JJ. I'd much rather sign and keep our own, anyway.

 

As for Henry's worth, I still think TD will be able to pull off something like a 3rd AND 5th from a desperate, cavalier Al Davis type.

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We probably agree on more things than you are comfortable admitting (not that I blame you).

It would be nice to keep Jennings, but I have a real problem paying him 36 million (or more) over 5 years. He might actually get this from a team.

As for NC, it will be hard to keep him either way after the Winfield fiasco. NC, imo, is far better than AW and is going to want a ton of money.

I have a feeling that TD thinks that 05 is the year to make the big push, and I think he is right. With free agency and the cap, most teams (unlike NE ) have a very small window to make their move. Our defense and STs are ready. LE and WM are getting better. The OL is a player or 2 away, and Travis will be gone.

Surtain would give us the best secondary in the NFL in 05. That is why, along with Miami needing cap space, I am thinking a deal to be a true possibility.

 

One thing of which I AM certain is that this offseason is going to be a ton of fun.

Enjoy the game young man.

[Rico]

Shelton is a top 10 LT in the NFL.

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Scout's Inc Grading of OT's before the 2004 Season

 

Name: L.J. Shelton

Position: Offensive Tackle

Grade: 69 - 51st best OT | Key

Alert: None

 

Comment:

Shelton is a good athlete for his size, he has tremendous upper body strength, he shows a good initial punch, he extends his arms, and when he is locked onto a defender, he can be very effective. At left tackle, he does not have what you are looking for athletically but he can be effective if he can get his hands on the defender, lock on with his long arms, and simply ride the speed rusher past the pocket. However, if you put him on an island and ask him to be an athlete and to handle double moves or great first-step quickness, he is going to be in big trouble as he is simply not very good in space. Because of his size, Shelton can dominate at the point of attack. Will push the pile in the running game, comes off the ball hard and can simply overpower DL to get the job done. He needs to continue to improve his footwork, but he has a good work ethic and will certainly give you good effort. Shelton has been somewhat of a disappointment thus far but he is still young enough to salvage a nice career if he's eventually moved inside to guard.

===========================================

This was before he was benched in Arizona...

not even close to being a top-10 tackle.

[Typical TBD Guy]

I have a feeling that TD thinks that 05 is the year to make the big push, and I think he is right.

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And there we go disagreeing again !

 

I hope TD doesn't think that 2005 is the year...only in the sense that I don't want him mortgaging our near future for this 2005 season alone. The gap between us and the Pats is still too big, and we shouldn't realistically expect the kind of first-year luck with JP that the Steelers had with Ben...

 

Oh well, one thing for sure is that TD WILL make this an interesting offseason. He always does, which is at least some consolation for his substandard regular season record!

[VABills]

   

 

Scout's Inc Grading of OT's before the 2004 Season

 

Name: L.J. Shelton

Position: Offensive Tackle

Grade: 69 -   51st best OT | Key

Alert: None

 

Comment:

Shelton is a good athlete for his size, he has tremendous upper body strength, he shows a good initial punch, he extends his arms, and when he is locked onto a defender, he can be very effective. At left tackle, he does not have what you are looking for athletically but he can be effective if he can get his hands on the defender, lock on with his long arms, and simply ride the speed rusher past the pocket. However, if you put him on an island and ask him to be an athlete and to handle double moves or great first-step quickness, he is going to be in big trouble as he is simply not very good in space. Because of his size, Shelton can dominate at the point of attack. Will push the pile in the running game, comes off the ball hard and can simply overpower DL to get the job done. He needs to continue to improve his footwork, but he has a good work ethic and will certainly give you good effort. Shelton has been somewhat of a disappointment thus far but he is still young enough to salvage a nice career if he's eventually moved inside to guard.

===========================================

This was before he was benched in Arizona...

not even close to being a top-10 tackle.

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Yup and they have Mckinnie at #8. take it with a grain of salt. mckinnie has never been in the top 50. Also what the write-up said, I also mention and that is against top tier DE's he will need help. But with his consistancy and always healthy, priot to this year, he is a far better tackle than the list shows. Also by the list he is not 51 but tied for 46th.

 

The difference on that list from #10 to #51 is minimal also and is very subjective.

[CosmicBills]

Shelton has been somewhat of a disappointment thus far but he is still young enough to salvage a nice career if he's eventually moved inside to guard.

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Maybe the plan is to trade for him AND still keep JJ? Move him to LG... then the Bills would have a monster OLINE with JJ, Shelton, Teague, CV and MW.

 

That would work for me.

 

If his numbers are really that good (cap wise I mean), and if Denny Green would do it, then the Bills may be able to afford both Shelton and Jennings.

 

Is it possible?