rcatty Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) I was just going to leave this thread alone, given how inaccurate rcatty and others memory is. Thankfully, you and Utah John showed up with facts. Powell was an All-Star. At the time of the trade, it seemed to most that the Bills fleeced the Raiders. Ya just never know how things will turn out. Bass caught a TD pass in SBII and injuries kept Flores from seeing the field in Buffalo. Collier, the acknowledged architect of the Safety Blitz, lead the Bills to the AFL Championship game -at home, only to lose to KC for entry into 'SBI'. Rauch was a good coach for Oakland, but Al wanted to promote Madden. Rauch was more 'reknown' for gutting a still talented roster than the folly of decoying Juice. Inaccurate. Really? The trade, which will go down as one of the all time worst in professional sports, was made in 1967. That trade was so good for Buffalo that it propelled the us to a 1-12-1 record in 1968, and a 4-10 record in 1969 ! Don't tell me that a player we got in the trade had a good game or two after the trade, or that someone got injured and he was finished. That's ridiculous thinking, the bottom line is that the "proof is in the pudding". It's like saying the Drew Bledsoe trade was a great trade for Buffalo. Yes, Bledsoe had a good year, and some good games after the trade, but he was finished shortly thereafter. No one would say it was a good trade for the Bills. Bellichek fleeced the Bills, dumping a soon to be washed up QB to the Bills for a first round pick. That was no different than Al Davis acquiring Lamonica from us. The last I remember, Lamonica went onto MVP status! Collier a good coach? An innovator? His record shows his level of innovation, and he was the guy coaching the team that gave Lamonica away. You trade away an MVP, and go 4-10, and 1-12-1, and you want to anoint the guy as some innovator? Lotsa luck ! Get your facts straight. I was there watching the games! As for the great coach Johnny Rauch. Apparently, another Al Davis reject. Rauch had OJ, and used him so effectively that Juice averaged 622 yards per season. I personally sat in the stands and I would like to have a dollar for each time he flipped OJ out of the backfield and split him out. In 1969 OJ had 30 receptions! Rauch's teams with the Bills were awful, going 4-10, and 3-10-1. However, in fairness to him, the Bills were in the early stages of what would become a decades long history of failure, and ineptitude. Yes, Rauch was part of it and added his own twist to it, but he was just a cog in the wheel of misfortune. Edited December 27, 2014 by rcatty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Inaccurate. Really? The trade, which will go down as one of the all time worst in professional sports, was made in 1967. That trade was so good for Buffalo that it propelled the us to a 1-12-1 record in 1968, and a 4-10 record in 1969 ! Don't tell me that a player we got in the trade had a good game or two after the trade, or that someone got injured and he was finished. That's ridiculous thinking, the bottom line is that the "proof is in the pudding". It's like saying the Drew Bledsoe trade was a great trade for Buffalo. Yes, Bledsoe had a good year, and some good games after the trade, but he was finished shortly thereafter. No one would say it was a good trade for the Bills. Bellichek fleeced the Bills, dumping a soon to be washed up QB to the Bills for a first round pick. That was no different than Al Davis acquiring Lamonica from us. The last I remember, Lamonica went onto MVP status! Collier a good coach? An innovator? His record shows his level of innovation, and he was the guy coaching the team that gave Lamonica away. You trade away an MVP, and go 4-10, and 1-12-1, and you want to anoint the guy as some innovator? Lotsa luck ! Get your facts straight. I was there watching the games! As for the great coach Johnny Rauch. Apparently, another Al Davis reject. Rauch had OJ, and used him so effectively that Juice averaged 622 yards per season. I personally sat in the stands and I would like to have a dollar for each time he flipped OJ out of the backfield and split him out. In 1969 OJ had 30 receptions! Rauch's teams with the Bills were awful, going 4-10, and 3-10-1. However, in fairness to him, the Bills were in the early stages of what would become a decades long history of failure, and ineptitude. Yes, Rauch was part of it and added his own twist to it, but he was just a cog in the wheel of misfortune. I think you are missing the point, at the time of the trade in 1967, many thought we got a great deal. After Lamonica went on the lead the Raiders to the playoffs for the next decade and both players the Bills obtained burned out we quickly realized we were taken. The bottom line is Tom Flores was a top QB and Art Powell a top receiver in 1966, the Bills had a great defense and not so great offense. Glen Bass and Lamonica were 2nd Team players, so many got kind of excited; by the fourth game reality set in. I think you are missing the point, at the time of the trade in 1967, many thought we got a great deal. After Lamonica went on the lead the Raiders to the playoffs for the next decade and both players the Bills obtained burned out we quickly realized we were taken. The bottom line is Tom Flores was a top QB and Art Powell a top receiver in 1966, the Bills had a great defense and not so great offense. Glen Bass and Lamonica were 2nd Team players, so many got kind of excited; by the fourth game reality set in. Joel Collier was one of the greatest Defensive coaches in NFL history but a lousy HC. John Rauch won at Oakland and bombed in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFITZ1 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 rcatty - regarding Joel Collier, he was the architect of the Bills AFL Championship years' defense and later went on to be DC in Denver for many years and several HC's. His signature there was the "Orange Crush" defense that brought Denver its first playoff years. He was always regarded as an outstanding DC. His HC stint in Buffalo only further showed the Bills front office/ownership's propensity for taking the easy way out on replacing coaches and putting good people in wrong positions. Collier was never HC material and enjoyed many years as a successful DC. Judging Collier by is years as HC isn't near his whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcatty Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) I think you are missing the point, at the time of the trade in 1967, many thought we got a great deal. After Lamonica went on the lead the Raiders to the playoffs for the next decade and both players the Bills obtained burned out we quickly realized we were taken. The bottom line is Tom Flores was a top QB and Art Powell a top receiver in 1966, the Bills had a great defense and not so great offense. Glen Bass and Lamonica were 2nd Team players, so many got kind of excited; by the fourth game reality set in. Joel Collier was one of the greatest Defensive coaches in NFL history but a lousy HC. John Rauch won at Oakland and bombed in Buffalo. Nobody was jumping for joy with the trade. Although Flores and Powell were well known players and some would say that Powell was top shelf, I think the general feeling was more perplexed than anything. Don't forget many of us thought that Lamonica should have been starting. Lamonica rarely failed as a frequent, relief backup QB. Apparently, Al Davis saw it clear as day, while Collier...who knows what he saw..... rcatty - regarding Joel Collier, he was the architect of the Bills AFL Championship years' defense and later went on to be DC in Denver for many years and several HC's. His signature there was the "Orange Crush" defense that brought Denver its first playoff years. He was always regarded as an outstanding DC. His HC stint in Buffalo only further showed the Bills front office/ownership's propensity for taking the easy way out on replacing coaches and putting good people in wrong positions. Collier was never HC material and enjoyed many years as a successful DC. Judging Collier by is years as HC isn't near his whole story. I have no problem with Collier as a defensive coach...he was no Lou Saban, and oversaw the dismantling of a championship team. There are those of us who will never forgive the Lamonica trade. We had it fed to us for several years as Oakland became a cutting edge team. with Lamonica at the helm. Dam two Lamonica MVP years for the Raiders, and we had him here !! Talk about stupidity. Oh yes, that was the start of years and decades of historic failure, ineptitude and general incompetency.I might note, by the way, that Dick Gallagher our first general manager who put together our Championship teams left in 1967, the year of the trade, and after Collier's first year, which ended in defeat in the AFL Championship game. Edited December 27, 2014 by rcatty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) It helped he had Charlie smith, Warren Wells, Hewitt Dixon and Pete Banazack (sp) How about trading Tom Keating to the raiders too, Second Team All AFL Edited December 27, 2014 by Helpmenow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFITZ1 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 rcatty - believe me, I saw first hand the effects of the Lamonica trade in 1968 when I attended my first ever Bills game at WMS against the Raiders. Lamonica and company blew the Bills right out onto Best Street with a 48-6 whupping. I still have memories of the fans singing "Good-bye Collier" in unison. Of course, that brought about the first round of the cheap replacement coach blunder bringing up Harvey Johnson , who was well suited as a personnel man, but in no way a head coach. Essentially, he, Gallagher and Saban were the architects of the AFL Champions. One thing I always admired about Saban was his ability to put a raw college player at the right position he was suited for in the pros. He switched many players from offense to defense and vice versa and made them stars (George Saimes was one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Raush got Jack Kemp at the end of his career. Dan Darragh and James Harris weren't the answer. Only Harris under former Chuck Knox did anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcatty Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 rcatty - believe me, I saw first hand the effects of the Lamonica trade in 1968 when I attended my first ever Bills game at WMS against the Raiders. Lamonica and company blew the Bills right out onto Best Street with a 48-6 whupping. I still have memories of the fans singing "Good-bye Collier" in unison. Of course, that brought about the first round of the cheap replacement coach blunder bringing up Harvey Johnson , who was well suited as a personnel man, but in no way a head coach. Essentially, he, Gallagher and Saban were the architects of the AFL Champions. One thing I always admired about Saban was his ability to put a raw college player at the right position he was suited for in the pros. He switched many players from offense to defense and vice versa and made them stars (George Saimes was one). Agreed, Glad you see the light ! Merry Xmas, and Happy New Year ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Agreed, Glad you see the light ! Merry Xmas, and Happy New Year ! The 67 Raiders had Lamonica, WR Bill Miller (69 Receptions in 1964), Tom Keating, and Bill Laskey all starting - all former Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 rcatty - believe me, I saw first hand the effects of the Lamonica trade in 1968 when I attended my first ever Bills game at WMS against the Raiders. Lamonica and company blew the Bills right out onto Best Street with a 48-6 whupping. I still have memories of the fans singing "Good-bye Collier" in unison. Of course, that brought about the first round of the cheap replacement coach blunder bringing up Harvey Johnson , who was well suited as a personnel man, but in no way a head coach. Essentially, he, Gallagher and Saban were the architects of the AFL Champions. One thing I always admired about Saban was his ability to put a raw college player at the right position he was suited for in the pros. He switched many players from offense to defense and vice versa and made them stars (George Saimes was one). ha ha I was at that game, horrible ass kicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I have no idea who that is, but I'll be the first to say it, BUST!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 It helped he had Charlie smith, Warren Wells, Hewitt Dixon and Pete Banazack (sp) How about trading Tom Keating to the raiders too, Second Team All AFL Not relevant to the conversation, but Pete Banaszak is a client of mine. Great guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcatty Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) Raush got Jack Kemp at the end of his career. Dan Darragh and James Harris weren't the answer. Only Harris under former Chuck Knox did anything. He also got OJ, who would become the premier running back in the league. Don't forgot the league was dominated by running the ball. Rauch's approach was to split him wide, and throw him passes. "hey, I've got potentially the best running back in the league....I think i'll split him out and throw passes to him"....that will really show how smart I am".....NOT !!!! Today's modern version of that thinking is..."hey, I just traded away my first round pick for Sammy Watkins...I think I'll throw the ball to Fred Jackson for 2 yards" It took Lou Saban returning here for his second stint as head coach to realize how misused OJ was. Saban announced upon his signing, that we would be running the ball. Period. The rest is history. OJ went on to dominate the league in rushing, and was a force that was at times, unstoppable.Saban, while conservative, perhaps to a fault, understood fundamental football, and how to get the best out of players. Edited December 28, 2014 by rcatty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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