Aikman 1-15 in his first year.

[C.Biscuit97]

You would have more of a point if the team in question has done more things right than wrong in its history.

 

That's a fair point. But let's stop making up mythical draft picks and where guys might have been drafted. It serves no point.

[GG]

That's a fair point. But let's stop making up mythical draft picks and where guys might have been drafted. It serves no point.

 

It's the best proxy that I can think of to compare last year's QB class to this year's. And if you don't think that this year's class is all that special, think of how really bad last year's class was by comparison. Just adds to Bills misfortune that they decide to address the position in the weakest draft class in a decade.

Edited September 23, 2014 by GG

[C.Biscuit97]

It's the best proxy that I can think of to compare last year's QB class to this year's. And if you don't think that this year's class is all that special, think of how really bad last year's class was by comparison. Just adds to Bills misfortune that they decide to address the position in the weakest draft class in a decade.

 

Let's wait a few years before we start judging drafts. A lot can change.

[GG]

Let's wait a few years before we start judging drafts. A lot can change.

 

It can, but the early results don't favor 2013. I'll go out on the limb and predict that Carr, Bortles & Teddy will outplay EJ & Geno this year.

[Hplarrm]

 

 

Coming through with a high quality post at 3 am!!! Nice work night owl

 

Couldn't agree more with that assessment of EJ - we will see by the seasons end if EJ is developing the stuff to be a franchise guy....we won't know FOR SURE, but we will have a much clearer understanding if he's trending towards that or bust....

 

For this week - let's see how he responds (and more importantly the entire team) after a brutal performance

 

Thanks for the compliments (the 3am send is less impressive than it seems though as much of the thinking was done in the daylight time, but only a little finalizing and pushing the send button comes on the way back to bed on a trip back from the water closet).

[The Big Cat]

It can, but the early results don't favor 2013. I'll go out on the limb and predict that Carr, Bortles & Teddy will outplay EJ & Geno this year.

 

They don't?

 

The same draft that got us Woods, Alonso and Duke Williams? Goodwin? Gragg?

 

In fact, aside from Hopkins and Meeks, we've had more than adequate contributions from EVERY draft pick in 2013. And Hopkins' contributions were cut short because of injury.

 

So unless I'm missing something...

 

How do the early results not favor 2013?

[Hplarrm]

 

 

Tell that to the other 52 guys busting their humps for this experiment.

 

I hope and assume they are. Do you think that during the Bills success of the early 90s, that the message to the "other 50 or so humps on the team was Jim Kelly is our franchise QB and he is gonna deliver us? Was the message to the humos and the fans in The Greatest Game Ever Played that Frank Reich is no where near the franchise QB Jimbo was so you are excused from making an effort.

 

Look, EJ is not a franchise quality QB and the sad reality is that he is quite unlikely to develop into one by the end of the season even if he gets every rep he can this year. It just makes me laugh that anyone could have been football stupid enough to demand that this PROJECT should have been declared a bust last year based on his progress (he was an inadequate producer but showed reasonable progress for a PROJECT in his truncated rookie season.

 

It is just about equally hilarious to see folks wringing their hands and really simply downright getting their panties all in a wad over what has been an inadequate for Bills rooters (even me)but fairly impressive work by him in 2 of the 3 games so far this season.

 

The real scoop on EJ this year is that he has shown flat out the improvement in his play from the 9 games of reps as a starter last year. As a rookie, EJ demonstrated that he is a young strong talented player capable even as a rookie of leading his team to comeback victories. However, despite flashes of virtual brilliance in 2013 he also showed he could simply stink up the joint at times and even worse he can show bad habits like depending on his legs to run out of trouble. This worked in college against lesser players but you are gonna get injured trying to so this too much as a pro (and EJ did last year). EJs other failings in 2013 included locking on to receivers a bit leading to INTs. He also seemed to have trouble doing a lot of progressions and reads in a fast paced game.

 

After 3 games so far (still a bit small of a sample to draw real conclusions) EJ seems to have:

 

1. Improved in his overall game management with the team racking up two victories including one on the road so far.

2. He has avoided risking his body so far when forced to run or escape danger.

3. He really has minimized INTs and this year.

4. Merrone/Hackett have adjusted the game a bit in diminishing the use f the no huddle which gives EJ a little more time to do reads. Whaley has also helped a lot emphasizing A. reinforcing the running game finding a productive Booby Dixon to play #3 RB and even storing Bryce Brown when the likelihood of Jax or Spiller going down Brown is there, B. Getting a bunch of talented OL players to try to find the best 5 C. Getting some great WR talent.

 

Overall, EJs QB rating was over 90 in each of the first two games and the good ratings reflected his imperfect buy good play. I am not sure what the rating was but he sucked. However, this seems consistent with his inconsistent play we expected.

 

[GG]

 

 

They don't?

 

The same draft that got us Woods, Alonso and Duke Williams? Goodwin? Gragg?

 

In fact, aside from Hopkins and Meeks, we've had more than adequate contributions from EVERY draft pick in 2013. And Hopkins' contributions were cut short because of injury.

 

So unless I'm missing something...

 

How do the early results not favor 2013?

 

Considering the discussion was about first round QBs, perhaps you can enlighten me to how that relates to WRs, LBs and safeties?

[The Big Cat]

Considering the discussion was about first round QBs, perhaps you can enlighten me to how that relates to WRs, LBs and safeties?

 

Well, then I missed something.

 

I apologize that my several-hour respite from this thread threw me out of the loop momentarily.

 

There was only one first round QB in 2013.

[GG]

 

 

There was only one first round QB in 2013.

 

Yes there was, and the discussion is whether he'd still be a first round pick if he was in the 2014 draft, or even a 2nd round pick.

[The Big Cat]

Yes there was, and the discussion is whether he'd still be a first round pick if he was in the 2014 draft, or even a 2nd round pick.

 

Second? Yes. Definitely.

[die hard bills fan]

Come on. Let's get real. Comparing EJ to Phillip Rivers is asinine at best. He's had 10 years. EJ has had 10 games. Give him a break. Anybody want to compare him to Sanchez? 5th pick? Joey Harrington? The Oakland guy?

 

We are a work in progress...I'll take 2-1 right now. Let's go dismantle Houston and move forward. Anybody know what Phillip Rivers did in his first 15 games?

 

ar Team G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Y/A TD Int Rtg 2004 SD 2 0 5 8 62.5 33 16.5 1 0 110.9 2005 SD 2 0 12 22 54.5 115 5.2 0 1 50.4 2006 SD 16 16 284 460 61.7 3,388 7.4 22 9 92.0 2007 SD 16 16 277 460 60.2 3,152 8.4 21 15 82.4 2008 SD 16 16 312 478 65.3 4,009 8.4 34 11 105.5 2009 SD 16 16 317 486 65.2 4,254 8.6 28 9 104.4 2010 SD 16 16 357 541 66.0 4,710 8.7 30 13 101.8 2011 SD 16 16 366 582 62.9 4,624 7.9 27 20 88.7 2012 SD 16 16 338 527 64.1 3,606 6.8 26 15 88.6 2013 SD 16 16 378 544 69.5 4,478 8.2 32 11 105.5 Total‡ 132 128 2,646 4,108 64.4 32,369 7.9 221 104 96.0

Totally agree. It's too early to make long term judgments about him.

[fridge]

 

 

Yes there was, and the discussion is whether he'd still be a first round pick if he was in the 2014 draft, or even a 2nd round pick.

 

Honestly, what does this have to do with anything? Why do people harp so much on past draft positions and play this redrafting mix and match game? Is this a football message board or a magic the gathering game?

 

All the over analysis on draft position is you buying into one of the many media hype machines.

 

It doesn't matter. Complain about Gilmore or Mckelvin or Whitner or Tim Tebow or any of the other 1st round picks that will never be giving speeches at Canton. If you're preparing for the Texans, this gets you nowhere.

[GG]

 

 

Honestly, what does this have to do with anything? Why do people harp so much on past draft positions and play this redrafting mix and match game? Is this a football message board or a magic the gathering game?

 

All the over analysis on draft position is you buying into one of the many media hype machines.

 

It doesn't matter. Complain about Gilmore or Mckelvin or Whitner or Tim Tebow or any of the other 1st round picks that will never be giving speeches at Canton. If you're preparing for the Texans, this gets you nowhere.

 

That's why I said they need to forget what round he was drafted in and evaluate him based on his play. The way they are going about it is to justify the high draft pick.

[Ripkord65]

The only people that believe EJ is any good, or will get better with time are people who know nothing about football and EJ fanboys. He was just as incompetent in Florida. He's had plenty of time to show improvement, and turret he still shows the same poor me mechanics and inaccuracy. The sooner Pegula fires this useless coaching staff, and make EJ the water boy, the better.

[fridge]

The only people that believe EJ is any good, or will get better with time are people who know nothing about football and EJ fanboys. He was just as incompetent in Florida. He's had plenty of time to show improvement, and turret he still shows the same poor me mechanics and inaccuracy. The sooner Pegula fires this useless coaching staff, and make EJ the water boy, the better.

 

You're just a bundle of joy.

[Ripkord65]

The only people that believe EJ is any good, or will get better with time are people who know nothing about football and EJ fanboys. He was just as incompetent in Florida. He's had plenty of time to show improvement, and he still shows the same poor mechanics and inaccuracy. The sooner Pegula fires this useless coaching staff, and make EJ the water boy, the better.

 

 

 

You're just a bundle of joy.

 

The truth hurts some I guess.

[fridge]

The truth hurts some I guess.

 

Yeah, it does. Your waterboy has a winning record with 3 TDs and 1 INT after 3 weeks.

[Billshank Redemption]

The only people that believe EJ is any good, or will get better with time are people who know nothing about football and EJ fanboys. He was just as incompetent in Florida. He's had plenty of time to show improvement, and turret he still shows the same poor me mechanics and inaccuracy. The sooner Pegula fires this useless coaching staff, and make EJ the water boy, the better.

 

This. These threads are pointless.

 

This reminds me of the infamous trade Skelton for Mario thread because Skeltons numbers resembled an early John Elway. They really didn't because the game has changed, the QB position is far more important than it ever was. I don't believe in EJ, not because I don't want to but because when you actually watch him with an unbiased attitude you see that he is not an NFL QB. We win in spite of him, never because of him.

 

Hope more than anything he proves me wrong however.

[Hplarrm]

The only people that believe EJ is any good, or will get better with time are people who know nothing about football and EJ fanboys. He was just as incompetent in Florida. He's had plenty of time to show improvement, and turret he still shows the same poor me mechanics and inaccuracy. The sooner Pegula fires this useless coaching staff, and make EJ the water boy, the better.

 

Are you saying that you saw no improvement in his play last year which easily can be judged to be inadequate for a 1st string QB. He clearly did not perform last year like QB we wanted (I think most Bills fans want a QB who showed the performance of a 5th year starter like Rivers did on Sunday. However, I think most people had no expectation that EJ after a dozen starts was going to be anywhere near where a good 5th year starter like Rivers is (well at least most semi-rational fans do not think this is the proper measure.

 

I think your judgments actually seem to show a somewhat irrational judgment of EJ.

 

He flat out still performs inadequately at QB and may not ever reach the levels of performance we want.

 

However your claim that EJ is not performing better this year compared to his performance last year seems to simply ignore the limited facts we have in his brief time as a starting NFL QB.

 

When EJ was picked by the Bills in the first last year it was a pretty good move in my judgment. I feel this way because:

 

1. The Bills simply had to take the best QB they could get in last year's draft because of the foolish way they had handled the QB position in the past leading to them signing Fitzy to a big contract and him perform9ng so badly they had to cut him. The bog problem this created was that last year's QB class was pretty bad. There was no Andrew Luck to trade up for. The choices were either the inconsistent in everyone's judgment at best EJ or Geno Smith. The pro scouts judged neither of these players to be 1st round quality even in a weak QB class. Even a 1st rounder was probably 50/50 at best to be capable of being a bad starter.

 

EJ was to most without a fan bias a PROJECT at best. I am (and I think Whaley/Merrone who no matter how you judge them relative or GMs/NCs in the NFL have actually forgotten more than you and I will ever know about judging NFL players- but hey we are fans and have a right to our fact-free opinions if we want) pretty comfortable with a judgment that though EJ was inadequate as a rookie starter last year. He earned the endorsement the Bills braintrust gave him for this season as he was by far a better choice than Tuel or whatshisname who was our #2 last year but after a sorry pre-season we cut him.

 

Would you choose either of these two as your starter?

 

Further, I think EJ demonstrated by looking at their performances last year also looking at theor performances head to head last year EJ was a better choice than Geno. Would yu prefer Geno?

 

Further, there simply was no one else in the draft worthy of a pick in the first few rounds and further, the Bills were simply not an attractive choice for any available FA QBs and we did not have the trade bait to get one.

 

EJ was and is a PROJECT but clearly had the best upside of any PRIJECT the Bills could get last year.

 

If not then WHO do you suggest the Bills should have drafted in the 1st last year.

 

Add on to this that Whaley cleverly traded down to still pick EJ and got a 2nd and 7th for him which became Kiko and Gragg. The way Whakley handled the pick we got not only the best (though still inadequate) QB in s bad QB class and got the best rookie LB and a TE still with the team.

 

What woukd yiu have dine that was reasonable that would have been better?

 

The other less than rational point you claim is that EJ has not gotten better from last year to this.

 

EJ is still not the QB we want, but the claim that he would have been the QB for the first two wins this season simply does not fit the reality.

 

EJ was too quick to bail out and run last year (bad judgment that led to his injury). Further, he really locked onto his chosen receiver completely last year. Has he improved on this bad habit? Yes, and his INT rate in three short games shows it so far this year. Is he great? Nope, he still can leave his receivers out on a limb a bit with hugh or inaccurate throws, but he clearly has improved tipping his hand to DBs and has better INT numbers to show this.

 

In addition to EJs play improving (he racked up over 90 QB ratings in the first two games) Merrone Hackett have also learned some of EJs weaknesses which make him still an inadequate QB like an inability to make all his reads. The offense has been simplified this year and the O braintrust is not asking EJ to run a constant no huddle and because he is not experienced enough to do this his O play is more effecrive than last year.

 

Is EJ the QB we want and deserve? No! Anyone who saw his struggles in game 3 against SD knows that is the case. The safety he racked up throwing the ball away while in the endzone shows he ain't there yet. Hpwever, it is ridiculous to see how he played QB beating a better team than the Bills on the road in Chicago to claim EJ has bit inproved. Even in the win against Miami where the EJ led O was horrible in the redzone for getting TDs, he still QB'ed a team which win in a laugher as the EJ QB'ed O generally succeeded in at least getting FGs in the redzone.

 

The hope for the Bills at least competing for the playoffs this year is not the irrationale dream that the young EJ is going to lead this team (he ain't good enuf yet) but instead can be am adequate manager of the team where reinforcing the RB spot, better OL play and getting gamebreakers at $1 and #3 WRs can help this TEAM be competitive?

 

Better play by EJ over his rookie performance as he turned out to be almost adequate in games 1 and 2 were a big part of wins.

 

It certainly is possible EJ will never become the consistent QB we need. However, it is simply irrational to not see that EJ is an improved player over last year (the record says he is and Merrone/Hackett are dumbing down the O to be more successful even with EJs limitations. The Bills had limited options for getting a QB last year (do you argue we should have reached even further for Geno- if so you missed his redzone play on Monday which was even worse than EJ against Miami).

 

I am comfortable that with a mere better performance than his shortened rookie year the Bills can compete for the playoffs even with merely adequate play from EJ as we saw in the first two games.