What more evidence ESPN is lost?

[OCinBuffalo]

What ESPN does good is there offsite stuff. College Gameday for both Football & Basketball are top notch programs. Fox 1 Sports is trying to compete against College Gameday this fall. All I got to say is good luck. But your right, their in studio programing sucks.

Oh really? Well then you are going to love this(quoted from Kelly the Dog's Link):

This obsessive fandom, these thousands of sports nerds secreted away in a production gulag in Bristol, is also the emotional center of a multibillion-dollar business. It preserves a certain naive love of the games. Spend too much time in a locker room interviewing athletes, and even the most passionate fan can become jaded about big-time sports. ESPN has plenty of reporters who spend plenty of time on the road, interviewing players and breaking news, but it is the crew in Bristol who drive the fan culture of ESPN. “If you’re spending time with athletes, the hero worship subsides,” says Vince Doria. “Some of them are a‍-‍-‍holes. So having people who have not spent time in locker rooms is an advantage.”

(hehehehehe....apparently Kelly forgot who he was talking to. "The answer is in the link..." Yeah it sure is, Kelly)

 

The writer of the link has missed it completely. Talk about Fox Butterfield. http://online.wsj.co...4228137272.html

 

Yeah, we are much better off with Jets fan bois writing and producing ESPN's work. (There is your inexplicable reason why ESPN still devotes most of its time to Buttfumble vs. Geno, and much less on EJ vs. Kolb.)

Yeah, the in-studio suckiness has nothing to do with the fan boi office culture, and the on-site quality is merely coincidence.

Yeah, people who never spend any time watching the games, at the games, are much better suited to tell us what is happening in sports.

Yeah, there's no chance for an agenda to be formulated by fan bois in an office, who never actually have to go and see the games for themselves. Besides, who wants to go watch camp at St. John Fischer anyway? Let's just write what we wrote last year, and then hit the bar!

Yeah, this TMZ fan boi culture, in Connecticut, has nothing to do with Yankees/Redsox overexposure, or the fact that I even know who Skip Bayless is.

 

Edited August 22, 2013 by OCinBuffalo

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

The hugeness of the existing market is irrelevant if the only player in it has been weakened by lack of competition.

 

In fact, that just makes it easier for the new players to gain a beachhead and start driving in-land.

ESPN makes most of its money from affiliate revenues, and that is growing every year, and has a substantial impact on Disney's bottom line. Last year Forbes named ESPN as the world's most valuable media property.

 

The reality is that there is not another media property in the world worth as much as ESPN because no media asset delivering content generates close to as much money.

 

and

 

There are fears that spending on sports rights fees will crimp ESPN’s profitability going forward as competition heats up from Fox Sports and NBC Sports. ESPN recently agreed to double the annual rights fees it pays for Major League Baseball and last year reached an eight year, $15.2 billion deal to broadcast the National Football League.

 

The reality is that the value of sports on television is only increasing, as much of the viewing public moves to watching programs on delay, limiting the effectiveness of advertising. It is a problem that ESPN does not have to worry about as 99.4% of sports events on TV are watched live, according to Disney CFO Jay Rasulo.

 

My guess is, rather than viewing ESPN being weak as a result of it's poor programming, Fox believes that they can build a valuable cable property and charge real money just like ESPN. Will they create a situation where ESPN isn't able to get the carriage fees it currently demands remains to be seen.

Edited August 22, 2013 by In-A-Gadda-Levitre

[BuffaloBob]

If I never hear Cowherd's voice again my life will be pretty much the same, but I'll be looking fore the mute button less

 

When he cranks up that high pitched whine, he reminds of the old Saturday Night Live skit with Joe Piscipo, Doug and Debbie Whiner. And he loves to make these analogical arguments where he compares some situation in sports to some everyday situation, except that they are typically fallacious for some reason or another, which annoys the crap out of me because he thinks he's being so smart. I am perfectly happy that he no longer comes on at 10AM.

Edited August 22, 2013 by BuffaloBob

[OCinBuffalo]

ESPN makes most of its money from affiliate revenues, and that is growing every year, and has a substantial impact on Disney's bottom line. Last year Forbes named ESPN as the world's most valuable media property.

 

and

 

My guess is, rather than viewing ESPN being weak as a result of it's poor programming, Fox believes that they can build a valuable cable property and charge real money just like ESPN. Will they create a situation where ESPN isn't able to get the carriage fees it currently demands remains to be seen.

Dude, the whole thing remains to be seen. FOX/NBC could be as wrong as Trump was about the USFL.

 

The question is: why is FOX/NBC doing this now? Affiliates are going to do whatever makes them the most $, and have 0 loyalty beyond that. Was the internet invented yesterday? Was cable TV? All of this has been around for years, and so has ESPN's market share and profitability. ESPN has been absolutely huge since the early 90s, even before Disney. Your link attempts to gloss over the real problems ESPN faces with their potential over-extension in live commitments, in the face of finally facing real competition, by devoting a single sentence to it?

 

Your link talks about history. I want to know about now. What has changed?

 

The only thing I see is: brand loyalty, for the first time ever, is weakening. I see the same pattern as CNN. Crap agenda driving customers elsewhere, over time, once that elsewhere exists. Please understand, this comes from a guy who has spent 20 years watching Berman every Sunday night during football, and Sportscenter 3 times a week minimum. I've been as loyal as the next sports fan, but, if something better comes along: I'm gone.

[Kelly the Dog]

ESPN makes most of its money from affiliate revenues, and that is growing every year, and has a substantial impact on Disney's bottom line. Last year Forbes named ESPN as the world's most valuable media property.

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

My guess is, rather than viewing ESPN being weak as a result of it's poor programming, Fox believes that they can build a valuable cable property and charge real money just like ESPN. Will they create a situation where ESPN isn't able to get the carriage fees it currently demands remains to be seen.

Exactly. The answer in the article is that ESPN makes more and more money on its multi-platform formats and on its mobile dominance and its continued expansion into the digital world. And it is continually growing, not faltering.

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

He single handedly cost the 49ers the Super Bowl with his lapses in coverage that allowed 3 TD's. Say what you will after that. Rank him wherever, but I for one am glad he is not on our roster anymore.

 

This ^. And lapses in coverage happen all the time for Whitner. They're just not always during the most watched television broadcast of the year.

[Kelly the Dog]

Dude, the whole thing remains to be seen. FOX/NBC could be as wrong as Trump was about the USFL.

 

The question is: why is FOX/NBC doing this now? Affiliates are going to do whatever makes them the most $, and have 0 loyalty beyond that. Was the internet invented yesterday? Was cable TV? All of this has been around for years, and so has ESPN's market share and profitability. ESPN has been absolutely huge since the early 90s, even before Disney. Your link attempts to gloss over the real problems ESPN faces with their potential over-extension in live commitments, in the face of finally facing real competition, by devoting a single sentence to it?

 

Your link talks about history. I want to know about now. What has changed?

 

The only thing I see is: brand loyalty, for the first time ever, is weakening. I see the same pattern as CNN. Crap agenda driving customers elsewhere, over time, once that elsewhere exists. Please understand, this comes from a guy who has spent 20 years watching Berman every Sunday night during football, and Sportscenter 3 times a week minimum. I've been as loyal as the next sports fan, but, if something better comes along: I'm gone.

ESPN is flourishing. It's now worth, by itself, over 2/3 of what all of NewsCorp is.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/11/09/why-espn-is-the-worlds-most-valuable-media-property-and-worth-40-billion/

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

I love College gameday & that is pretty much the only thing I watch except for the games on ESPN. It is worth the view just to get a glimpse of Samantha Ponder. The College Gameday for basketball is great too.

 

This is a good point. Their off-site programs like Gameday do have a lot more substance than anything you see in-studio. College Football Gameday is a great show, and has been for 20 years.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Dude, the whole thing remains to be seen. FOX/NBC could be as wrong as Trump was about the USFL.

 

The question is: why is FOX/NBC doing this now?

 

Your link talks about history. I want to know about now. What has changed?

 

The only thing I see is: brand loyalty, for the first time ever, is weakening. I see the same pattern as CNN. Crap agenda driving customers elsewhere, over time, once that elsewhere exists. Please understand, this comes from a guy who has spent 20 years watching Berman every Sunday night during football, and Sportscenter 3 times a week minimum. I've been as loyal as the next sports fan, but, if something better comes along: I'm gone.

1) read my previous post, because the Fox execs want what Disney has, real bottom line revenue with positive growth.

 

2) nothing has changed. you act like their $40B valuation has declined, quite the opposite; it's still growing. FY13Q2 Disney earnings jumped

 

Disney's Media Networks Group, which includes ABC and ESPN, posted an operating income of $1.86 billion, up 8%. Revenue rose 6% to $4.96 billion. Although its broadcast division saw operating income fall 40% to $138 million -- due in part to higher prime-time programming costs -- the operating income of the company's cable networks was up 15% to $1.72 billion. Disney partly attributed the gain in the cable business to increased affiliate revenue for ESPN.

 

3) let's say you're right, and it's all about brand loyalty. So Fox Sports grows at the expense of ESPN. Do you think Time-Warner or Comcast is going to offer you a choice over which sports network you watch? No, it'll either be part of a sports tier and both with be carried, or part of your basic cable. ESPN still wins with affiliate revenue. They simply aren't affected that much by losing some eyeballs to Fox.

[Mike in Horseheads]

Lets all agree on one thing, when ESPN starts losing programing to FOX1 or NBCSN our cable or DirecTV bills won't be reduced but most likely will go UP! Because then the argument will be they have to pay them more money, never mind that ESPN "should" go down then.

 

As for talent sharing it will be interesting if FOX and NBC play ESPN's game with radio shows. I listen to the "Dan Patrick Show" faithfully (I know some here don't like him either) and ESPN will seldom let anyone from the mother ship come on. I would bet it's the same with Jim Rome or Doug Gottlieb shows on CBS Sports radio. They may get pushed into a corner if say Peter King can't be on there shows? Just a thought.

[OCinBuffalo]

1) read my previous post, because the Fox execs want what Disney has, real bottom line revenue with positive growth.

Yes, as an exec, that's what I want. What does that prove? Assume ESPN has none of the issues I've stated, and there was no opportunity for FOX. Wouldn't Fox execs still want real bottom line revenue with positive growth?

2) nothing has changed. you act like their $40B valuation has declined, quite the opposite; it's still growing. FY13Q2 Disney earnings jumped

No, I haven't. In fact I've said the opposite: they are a behemoth. When their valuation was $30 billion, they had no competition. Same at $20B, same at $10B. I would have said they were a smart buy for anybody, in 1988. I looked it up: ABC bought the controlling interest in 1984. I was in middle school, so they were just a little ahead of me back then. But even as a middle schooler, I would have made that deal, because I watched ESPN every day.

 

Again, talking about history is pointless. We are talking about now. Now is when real competition enters this market. The only thing that is different from 1988 until today: ESPN now has real competition. Every time I say: competition, or, crap product, you keep telling me about valuation.

 

Since when does valuation = quality or ability to adapt and compete? Or, do you know who this guy http://en.wikipedia...._Edwards_Deming is, and do you want to talk about GM's valuation in the early 1970s? I don't think that you do, but, don't let me stop you.

3) let's say you're right, and it's all about brand loyalty. So Fox Sports grows at the expense of ESPN. Do you think Time-Warner or Comcast is going to offer you a choice over which sports network you watch? No, it'll either be part of a sports tier and both with be carried, or part of your basic cable. ESPN still wins with affiliate revenue. They simply aren't affected that much by losing some eyeballs to Fox.

This presumes that FOX cannot have affiliates? Or, that FOX cannot steal ESPN's affiliates? Or, create their own affiliates down market who can compete with ESPN's.

 

I am a good listener. A soon to be retired Exec VP once told me: "Never let what your main line go south. Ever. It doesn't matter if it merely breaks even or loses some. Your main line will always be who you are."

 

Now, you're telling me that the main line, ESPN cable channel, losing eyeballs is no big deal?

 

I am thinking he is probably right.

Edited August 22, 2013 by OCinBuffalo