ColdBlueNorth Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) This still chaps my ***, I was going to say "butt". Those that whine and B word every year wanting our team to spend to the hilt on free agents have to read this and understand how a team like the Texans (that did so well last year with a dominant defense) can jettison a high-priced veteran, free up cap space, and still get treated to a banquet of draft picks as if they were struggling. Not only does Mario take up a large chunk of the Bills cap space (cap they could use to sign and keep players they need), but we are still paying for that move in our ability to draft players to fill the holes in our current roster. http://www.buffaloru...pensatory-picks Edited April 9, 2013 by ColdBlueNorth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Who chaps your ass? The policy? Or the FO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 So does this make us smart for not giving Levitre a massive contract? We will most likely get a comp pick for him next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdBlueNorth Posted April 9, 2013 Author Share Posted April 9, 2013 Who chaps your ass? The policy? Or the FO? Pretty much both, because the Mario move (to me) stank of FO desperation to do something quick to please the fan base. It is the glossy marketing move that creates buzz, but does not really move the team forward. The formula that I have seen that appears to work best is stock piling as many picks as possible and never over-paying for veteran help to temporarily plug holes. At least that formula (and Brady) has kept NE in the top of the standings each year where they are known for trading out of the 1st and getting as many 2nd and 3rd round picks as they can get though they seem to find less willing partners the last few drafts. The problem with this seemingly constant 3-4 year turnover in coaching is that the personnel is never ideal for the schemes they try to run (particularly on the defense) and just as they finally get some of the parts in place we go in another direction. The Bills end up with a hodgepodge of high-priced puzzle pieces that do not quite fit into any cohesive defensive scheme. My hope is that Pettine is a smart enough coach to be creative and find ways to make the different pieces that we do have on the roster work best, instead of the wall-bashing "one scheme to rule them all" approach that Wanny seemed locked into ignoring all evidence to the contrary that it was not working on the field. So does this make us smart for not giving Levitre a massive contract? We will most likely get a comp pick for him next year. I liked Levitre a lot, but if he was looking for a fairly large payout then it was smart to let him walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 So does this make us smart for not giving Levitre a massive contract? We will most likely get a comp pick for him next year. we will see. i suspect we will not when getting one, but we will see.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainiac21 Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 So does this make us smart for not giving Levitre a massive contract? We will most likely get a comp pick for him next year. unfortunately we probably won't get much... maybe a 7th. it's almost all canceled out by Lawson and Kolb and especially if they sign someone else too. we can always hope someone signs Spencer Johnson or Tyler Thigpen to a big deal i suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Pretty much both, because the Mario move (to me) stank of FO desperation to do something quick to please the fan base. It is the glossy marketing move that creates buzz, but does not really move the team forward. The formula that I have seen that appears to work best is stock piling as many picks as possible and never over-paying for veteran help to temporarily plug holes. At least that formula (and Brady) has kept NE in the top of the standings each year where they are known for trading out of the 1st and getting as many 2nd and 3rd round picks as they can get though they seem to find less willing partners the last few drafts. The problem with this seemingly constant 3-4 year turnover in coaching is that the personnel is never ideal for the schemes they try to run (particularly on the defense) and just as they finally get some of the parts in place we go in another direction. The Bills end up with a hodgepodge of high-priced puzzle pieces that do not quite fit into any cohesive defensive scheme. My hope is that Pettine is a smart enough coach to be creative and find ways to make the different pieces that we do have on the roster work best, instead of the wall-bashing "one scheme to rule them all" approach that Wanny seemed locked into ignoring all evidence to the contrary that it was not working on the field. I liked Levitre a lot, but if he was looking for a fairly large payout then it was smart to let him walk. Mario is good enough and versatile enough that he will be just fine this year. I have full faith that Pettine will make him sing. You're right, Mario was signed PARTLY to add a marketing boost. But you're wrong to suggest he "does not really move the team forward." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 unfortunately we probably won't get much... maybe a 7th. it's almost all canceled out by Lawson and Kolb and especially if they sign someone else too. we can always hope someone signs Spencer Johnson or Tyler Thigpen to a big deal i suppose. kolb, as a guy that was cut doesnt count in our equation. we still have a lot more holes than expired contract free agents floating around though so... im not holding my breathe on levitre. a 7th would be equal number of guys signed and lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todzilla Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Pretty much both, because the Mario move (to me) stank of FO desperation to do something quick to please the fan base. It is the glossy marketing move that creates buzz, but does not really move the team forward. This is such weird thinking to me. We had a dismal pass rush and picked up the best pass rusher available (also Anderson). It filled a huge need. It just didn't work last year. Mario was hurt, Anderson got hurt, Wanstadt was a joke and Kyle W. had a down year. The move was still solid though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 This is such weird thinking to me. We had a dismal pass rush and picked up the best pass rusher available (also Anderson). It filled a huge need. It just didn't work last year. Mario was hurt, Anderson got hurt, Wanstadt was a joke and Kyle W. had a down year. The move was still solid though. kyle was hurt, dareus had his issues... these are still the same guys that if healthy were projected to be a top 5 line. problem is ALL of them had issues. heck even some of their backups had issues. the number 1 thing (besides qb play) that could bounce this team back quick is having those 4 guys play to their full potential for 16 games. i dont know that we had any games with all 4 playing healthy, and it was few and far between if even 3 were healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Since when did Kyle Williams have a ****ty year last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 So does this make us smart for not giving Levitre a massive contract? We will most likely get a comp pick for him next year. Doubtful. The #1 priority for comp picks is "a net loss of free agents". We've signed 2 and lost 2. (Kolb and Fitz don't count because they were cut, and I'm pretty sure Jones doesn't count because we declined to tender him.) Unless someone signs C-Mac and we sign no other FAs, the most we can get is a 7th-round pick. If we had signed only 1 FA to cancel out Rinehart, then I think we'd be in line for a 4th or 5th rounder for Levitre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainiac21 Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 kolb, as a guy that was cut doesnt count in our equation. we still have a lot more holes than expired contract free agents floating around though so... im not holding my breathe on levitre. a 7th would be equal number of guys signed and lost. interesting... i knew players a team cuts and then sign with another team did not count. but i thought signed players would count against no matter how they got to unrestricted free agency. cool... well in that case we stand a chance of getting a 4th or 5th rounder if we don't sign anyone else. so that said, will the next signing be worth losing a pick for? i hate when they sign complete scrubs that probably cost us a pick, but Buddy tosses 7th rounders in the garbage so maybe it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) Doubtful. The #1 priority for comp picks is "a net loss of free agents". We've signed 2 and lost 2. (Kolb and Fitz don't count because they were cut, and I'm pretty sure Jones doesn't count because we declined to tender him.) Unless someone signs C-Mac and we sign no other FAs, the most we can get is a 7th-round pick. If we had signed only 1 FA to cancel out Rinehart, then I think we'd be in line for a 4th or 5th rounder for Levitre. levitre would be a 3 likely, maaaaybe a 4 depending on how far the cutoff jumps year over year. am i forgetting a second signing? currently i have our 2 guards out, and lawson in putting us still as levitre being a loss but with a lot of holes to fill, i suspect that we sign more guys than we lose from here (with thigpen being our only likely qualifying loss remaining, really... cmac could happen but i imagine he will be a camp body type signing, after the window for qualifying signings has closed) interesting... i knew players a team cuts and then sign with another team did not count. but i thought signed players would count against no matter how they got to unrestricted free agency. cool... well in that case we stand a chance of getting a 4th or 5th rounder if we don't sign anyone else. so that said, will the next signing be worth losing a pick for? i hate when they sign complete scrubs that probably cost us a pick, but Buddy tosses 7th rounders in the garbage so maybe it doesn't matter. im preeetty sure that its just expiring unrestricted free agent contracts in the discussion either way - but thats like 99% sure, not 100% as its been awhile since ive dug into the topic outside of threads on here. Edited April 9, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdBlueNorth Posted April 9, 2013 Author Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) Mario is good enough and versatile enough that he will be just fine this year. I have full faith that Pettine will make him sing. You're right, Mario was signed PARTLY to add a marketing boost. But you're wrong to suggest he "does not really move the team forward." Last year he did not play a significant role in moving the defense forward, and he cost the team picks in this years draft and occupies a significant chunk of cap space - that is why I made the comment that he does not move the team forward. Remember that he was given the largest contract for a defensive player in NFL history. Does anyone feel he played up to that level? I could very well be wrong - I really hope I am, because this defense needs him to get back to being "Super" Mario. I do believe he is or was a rare player and I am optimistic that Pettine is creative enough to get more out of his skillset and the defense as a whole this year. A lot of it depends on where his head is at. Many players tank after getting huge contracts, I hope he is not one of them. Edited April 9, 2013 by ColdBlueNorth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainiac21 Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Doubtful. The #1 priority for comp picks is "a net loss of free agents". We've signed 2 and lost 2. (Kolb and Fitz don't count because they were cut, and I'm pretty sure Jones doesn't count because we declined to tender him.) Unless someone signs C-Mac and we sign no other FAs, the most we can get is a 7th-round pick. If we had signed only 1 FA to cancel out Rinehart, then I think we'd be in line for a 4th or 5th rounder for Levitre. the net loss includes quality, not just numbers. Levitre counts way more than Lawson because of his salary and potential post-season honors. but if we don't lose more than we sign it won't matter. who is the 2nd we signed? right now we could get a 4th or so for Levitre, as Lawson would cancel out Rhinehart. we need more guys like Thigpen of C-mac to sign to cancel out any crappy low-level signing we make to keep that Levitre pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Last year he did not play a significant role in moving the defense forward, and he cost the team picks in this years draft and occupies a significant chunk of cap space - that is why I made the comment that he does not move the team forward. Remember that he was given the largest contract for a defensive player in NFL history. Does anyone feel he played up to that level? I could very well be wrong - I really hope I am, because this defense needs him to get back to being "Super" Mario. I do believe he is or was a rare player and I am optimistic that Pettine is creative enough to get more out of his skillset and the defense as a whole this year a lot of it depends on where his head is at. Many players tank after getting huge contracts, I hope he is not one of them. remind me which picks he cost us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdBlueNorth Posted April 9, 2013 Author Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) remind me which picks he cost us? Keeping me honest:) I think we would have been in line to receive some compensatory picks in this draft if we had not spent the farm on Mario and Anderson. At a minimum the spooky formula that somehow always gives Baltimore a ton of picks should have coughed up something for the loss of Bell; Although I think Philly would gladly ship him back for a can of Genny Cream Ale after they inked him in 2012 to a 5-year 34.5 million dollar contract and he was terrible. Edited April 9, 2013 by ColdBlueNorth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 The Bills can't win with some "fans". If they don't sign anybody, they are cheap and don't want to win. If they do sign somebody, they either overpaid, signed garbage noone wanted or are just "trying to make a splash" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtewy Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 We signed Manny Lawson and Alan Branch as guys who weren't cut. They should both count against our potential compensatory picks for next year. Are Levitre and Reinhart the only two who we've lost that will count for us next year? If so, we would be evened out as signing two and losing two. However, we should be in a good spot to gain at least one extra pick, as Levitre far exceeds any of the guys we've signed. If we stand put on signings now, we should get something back. Do we have anyone else out there that was a free agent for us that if they sign elsewhere will give us a pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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