Alaska Darin Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Bill...I'll always think higher of Travis than you will. You and I have closed the book on that.But two things about your post... Willis is better than TH and makes our team better. But to compare him to Franco Harris? A little premature, don't you think? When Willis is helping us get to four Super Bowls, or one, or starts garnering Hall of Fame credentials, we'll talk. London Fletcher compared to Mike Singletary??? Where is the outrage on this board over that statement? One of the best middle linebackers...EVER. Maybe THE best. That describes Mike Singletary. Very good player who is not quite a Pro Bowler, but good enough that most fans can forgive him for the handful of really stupid plays he makes each year. That describes London Fletcher. The rest of your post is right on the money. 192582[/snapback] Individual players don't make it to Super Bowls. I agree that it's probably a little premature to compare Willis to Franco - plus they really don't exist on the same plane stylistically. Fletch is alot closer to Sam Mills than Singletary, though he'd probably look ALOT more dominant with Hampton, McMichael, Dent, etc lining up in front of him. London doesn't get the props he deserves because he plays next to TKO. We can call them stupid plays but most have looked alot more like poor calls to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 Bill...I'll always think higher of Travis than you will. You and I have closed the book on that.But two things about your post... Willis is better than TH and makes our team better. But to compare him to Franco Harris? A little premature, don't you think? When Willis is helping us get to four Super Bowls, or one, or starts garnering Hall of Fame credentials, we'll talk. London Fletcher compared to Mike Singletary??? Where is the outrage on this board over that statement? One of the best middle linebackers...EVER. Maybe THE best. That describes Mike Singletary. Very good player who is not quite a Pro Bowler, but good enough that most fans can forgive him for the handful of really stupid plays he makes each year. That describes London Fletcher. The rest of your post is right on the money. 192582[/snapback] When speaking of WM, I am only talking about right now. WM goes inside better than did Franco, and he unlike Franco is a tailback. WM is a better blocker. He also runs behind a far worse offensive line than the old steelers had. Because of his major injuries, it will be tough for Willis to duplicate Franco's stats, but not due to talent. I hope he stays healthy because if he does, he WILL put up numbers like that imo. As for London, I did say a Singletaty "type." MS was stronger, but London gets all over the field. take away the dumb mistakes (odd, because he is not a dumb person), and I think that he would be a great linebacker. As good as Singletary? Probably not. Wrt Travis, it is a done deal. As I told Simon.....if I can be sure of one thing about the Bills, it is that Travis will under no conditions be on the team next year. I am thrilled by this, but I respect your differing opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 Individual players don't make it to Super Bowls. I agree that it's probably a little premature to compare Willis to Franco - plus they really don't exist on the same plane stylistically. Fletch is alot closer to Sam Mills than Singletary, though he'd probably look ALOT more dominant with Hampton, McMichael, Dent, etc lining up in front of him. London doesn't get the props he deserves because he plays next to TKO. We can call them stupid plays but most have looked alot more like poor calls to me. 192598[/snapback] Poor calls by the refs or coaches? AD, he had that guy covered like a blanket yesterday. There was NO need to touch him. None. This was as costly as perhaps any play in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Poor calls by the refs or coaches? AD, he had that guy covered like a blanket yesterday. There was NO need to touch him. None. This was as costly as perhaps any play in the game. 192623[/snapback] Officials. That call yesterday was absolute BS. If that's pass interference, then that penalty needs to be called about 50 times per game. EVERY defensive player feels for where their responsibility is. It had NO impact on the play and there were WORSE offenses committed yesterday by the Steelers that were IGNORED completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 It had NO impact on the play and there were WORSE offenses committed yesterday by the Steelers that were IGNORED completely. 192644[/snapback] Like the constant tackling of our rushers. They could have called holding on every play against Pittsburgh (yeah, yeah they could call it every play against anybody) but many times there was BLATENT holding and yet the refs didn't see a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Like the constant tackling of our rushers. They could have called holding on every play against Pittsburgh (yeah, yeah they could call it every play against anybody) but many times there was BLATENT holding and yet the refs didn't see a thing? 192646[/snapback] That's really pissed me off all season, starting with the ridiculous call against CV in the Patriots game when Willis ran for a first down. The officiating in this league is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Dave Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 When speaking of WM, I am only talking about right now. WM goes inside better than did Franco, and he unlike Franco is a tailback. WM is a better blocker. He also runs behind a far worse offensive line than the old steelers had. Because of his major injuries, it will be tough for Willis to duplicate Franco's stats, but not due to talent. I hope he stays healthy because if he does, he WILL put up numbers like that imo. As for London, I did say a Singletaty "type." MS was stronger, but London gets all over the field. take away the dumb mistakes (odd, because he is not a dumb person), and I think that he would be a great linebacker. As good as Singletary? Probably not. Wrt Travis, it is a done deal. As I told Simon.....if I can be sure of one thing about the Bills, it is that Travis will under no conditions be on the team next year. I am thrilled by this, but I respect your differing opinion. 192617[/snapback] Fair enough. If Willis has anywhere close to the career Franco has, I imagine we will all be happy fans. And Darin is right...Willis can't get us to the Super Bowl by himself. As for Travis, I think it's in our best interests that Travis get traded this off-season. I think he did a good job of keeping his mouth shut the last several weeks. No doubt that the fact that he was injured and couldn't play anyway made it easier for him to do so. I do, though, question whether or not he could do that for another off-season, training camp, regular season, and (please GOD) postseason. My preference would be to trade him for a player equal to his talents (good not great) and in a similar contract situation. I'd want Tom and Mike to identify a player who plays a position of need on our team and make a swap with a team looking for a running back. If that can't happen, get the highest draft pick you can. As for London, I stand by what he said. He is very good, but he's not the best linebacker on our team and he's not among the top five middle linebackers in the NFL right now. That makes it hard to mention him in the same breath as Singletary. And to your credit (and for the sake of clarity), I realize you didn't say London is as good as Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Dave Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Officials. That call yesterday was absolute BS. If that's pass interference, then that penalty needs to be called about 50 times per game. EVERY defensive player feels for where their responsibility is. It had NO impact on the play and there were WORSE offenses committed yesterday by the Steelers that were IGNORED completely. 192644[/snapback] Yes. That call was bogus. We should have started the ensuing drive on our own 35 or 40 instead of our own 1-yard line. Of course, we were about to go 99 yards on their ass anyway and take an 8-point lead until Josh Reed decided to make his presence felt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Yes. That call was bogus. We should have started the ensuing drive on our own 35 or 40 instead of our own 1-yard line. Of course, we were about to go 99 yards on their ass anyway and take an 8-point lead until Josh Reed decided to make his presence felt. 192675[/snapback] Yeah, thankfully they didn't make the same call on the Steelers TD when they did the SAME thing. Very consistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#89 Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 What has happened to the Wall? I've actually read many Good intelligent posts today without all the gloom and doom expected. Harriet I got Alex to sign the pix of you with him and Brandon Pm me your address and I'll mail them - then you can mail Brandon his Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Like the constant tackling of our rushers. They could have called holding on every play against Pittsburgh (yeah, yeah they could call it every play against anybody) but many times there was BLATENT holding and yet the refs didn't see a thing? 192646[/snapback] Hines Ward was clearly holding Nate Clements, and it was the reason for the success of St. Ides' 4th and 1 scramble, textbook holding call, correct? Clear, out in the open, holding a player who would have otherwise made the play....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Hines Ward was clearly holding Nate Clements, and it was the reason for the success of St. Ides' 4th and 1 scramble, textbook holding call, correct? Clear, out in the open, holding a player who would have otherwise made the play....? 192811[/snapback] Indeed, that play in particular sticks out in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Do you mean to tell me that just because we went from averaging 9 YPC when Villarial left the game to about 1.8 YPC that an Offensive Lineman could have that kind of impact on a game of football? Why, he's not a running back or receiver or for Heaven's sake a Quarterback- how could he POSSIBLY make such a difference in the potency of our rushing offense? 191722[/snapback] Wait a minute, do you mean to tell me there are players on the field that aren't quarterbacks, wide receivers or running backs???!?!!! What are these "offensive lineman" of which you speak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 Wait a minute, do you mean to tell me there are players on the field that aren't quarterbacks, wide receivers or running backs???!?!!! What are these "offensive lineman" of which you speak? 192825[/snapback] I never thought that the OL mattered much either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 It's never been about liking Bledsoe, it's always been about the alternatives. I'm astounded that our fan base is putting the dreadful O on Sunday fully on Bledsoe instead of rightfully sharing the blame between the two high paid "stars" of our O in Bledsoe and Moulds. Moulds was awful, dropping any chance we had on plays that Beldsoe executed properly. Moulds is AT LEAST as responsible for what happened to us Sunday but reading this board you'd think our "go to" receiver was just another victim of a Barney Fife performance at QB. Let Bledsoe go- he's likely to end up at another stop like Oakland, a team that took another prior #1 draft pick of the Pats, a guy who was out of the league because he was "stationary", "got sacked too often" and "had no pocket presence" but just happened to return to a team that lived on the long ball and that good fit earned Jim Plunkett and those Raider teams two Super Bowl rings. 192556[/snapback] Agree with Moulds but not the Bledsoe analogy. Plunkett was a scrambler AKC and threw many passes on the run. He never has feet of stone like DB. I was a big Plunkett fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Agree with Moulds but not the Bledsoe analogy. Plunkett was a scrambler AKC and threw many passes on the run. He never has feet of stone like DB. I was a big Plunkett fan. 192910[/snapback] Thats' not my recollection of his Raider years and I didn't watch him in college- I remember him playing in a pretty pure pocket passing offense in Oakland. Here's a take from Dan Pastorini about Plunkett's style among other things: Dan Pastorini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Harriet I got Alex to sign the pix of you with him and Brandon Pm me your address and I'll mail them - then you can mail Brandon his 192703[/snapback] Thank you, Cindy !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Bill...I'll always think higher of Travis than you will. You and I have closed the book on that.But two things about your post... Willis is better than TH and makes our team better. But to compare him to Franco Harris? A little premature, don't you think? When Willis is helping us get to four Super Bowls, or one, or starts garnering Hall of Fame credentials, we'll talk. London Fletcher compared to Mike Singletary??? Where is the outrage on this board over that statement? One of the best middle linebackers...EVER. Maybe THE best. That describes Mike Singletary. Very good player who is not quite a Pro Bowler, but good enough that most fans can forgive him for the handful of really stupid plays he makes each year. That describes London Fletcher. The rest of your post is right on the money. 192582[/snapback] indy dave(i hope you are the same dude i watched do his virgin bowling ball shot in 2003...i think that was the guys handle.... ) i could not agree more about fletcher...i will admit, the guy has the heart of a lion, but he is to mike singletary, what i am to haille gebresaillassie...i.e.: there is just NO WAY. i realize he does not play the same position, but to me fletcher is more like a(barely)glorified damien covington...no better....am i the only one who noticed how easily people ran up the middle on us this year?? on the other hand, i think willis is the real deal....a 2000 yard rusher on a team with a good o-line...which we DID NOT HAVE IN 2004....hopefully we see it here next year ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 indy dave(i hope you are the same dude i watched do his virgin bowling ball shot in 2003...i think that was the guys handle.... ) i could not agree more about fletcher...i will admit, the guy has the heart of a lion, but he is to mike singletary, what i am to haille gebresaillassie...i.e.: there is just NO WAY. i realize he does not play the same position, but to me fletcher is more like a(barely)glorified damien covington...no better....am i the only one who noticed how easily people ran up the middle on us this year?? on the other hand, i think willis is the real deal....a 2000 yard rusher on a team with a good o-line...which we DID NOT HAVE IN 2004....hopefully we see it here next year ... 193307[/snapback] Wow! I can see taking issue with underperformers like Eric Moulds with his fat paycheck but a football player like Fletcher? OK, the Singletary comparison might offer some easy argument about their playing styles, but Fletcher plays football in the middle of the field like some of the great underrated Linebackers of the contemporary game- guys like Chris Spielman and Jesse Tuggle, guys who get their noses dirty every play, every game, every year. I can't see taking any of this out on a guy who does some of the best, albeit unheralded, work on our team, . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Dave Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 indy dave(i hope you are the same dude i watched do his virgin bowling ball shot in 2003...i think that was the guys handle.... ) i could not agree more about fletcher...i will admit, the guy has the heart of a lion, but he is to mike singletary, what i am to haille gebresaillassie...i.e.: there is just NO WAY. i realize he does not play the same position, but to me fletcher is more like a(barely)glorified damien covington...no better....am i the only one who noticed how easily people ran up the middle on us this year?? on the other hand, i think willis is the real deal....a 2000 yard rusher on a team with a good o-line...which we DID NOT HAVE IN 2004....hopefully we see it here next year ... 193307[/snapback] Jester....that was indeed me, at the Jets game in December of 2003, doing my first bowling ball shot. I hope there is another one in about nine months. I agree that there is no way that Fletcher is near the player Singletary was, but he's better than Damien Covington, no? AKC made a very good comparison, using Jesse Tuggle. That's about where I'd put London Fletcher. Interestingly enough, both of those guys are from small schools. Tuggle played at Valdosta State, which finally won a DII national championship this year after many years of coming close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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