jonramz Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Guys, The offense is not the problem here... Scoring 24 points on the road against a quality football team should be enough to win. It is the defense plain and simple. The lack of a pass rush is hanging our secondary out to dry. We tried blitzing Eli yesterday, it did not work at all... Giants picked it up very well. I know we want to complain about the 2 picks... no QB makes 100% good throws, SJ was open on both plays. The 1st one I'm not 100% positive that it wasn't a back shoulder throw by Fitz, b/c there was a safety deep and perhaps SJ didn't read it right. The 2nd one just a terrible throw off the back foot. But the thing is, not all bad throws get picked... look at Eli's throw on 3rd down at the end of the game... McKelvin probably should have picked it. Just so happens that Fitz came up snake eyes today. I don't know what can be done about the pass rush... I just don't see the talent there... Edwards also hasn't shown me he can scheme up pressure like a Gregg Williams or Rex Ryan can. There will be days were the offense doesn't put up 30+ points, and when that happens the defense needs to just be average instead of bad like it has been most of the year. On a positive note... the rush defense looks much better, and I think we found another guy in Kellen Heard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Injuries on the offense are catching up to us. But the real problem is the defense. We cannot continue to give up 400+ yards week after week. The entire draft again should be spent on the defense until we can stop someone. We need DL and LB's that can bring the heat and get sacks and QB knockdowns and hurry ups. And another CB that can cover man to man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 No offense but you're not telling us anything we don't already know. The question is whether it's correctable. Like you said it's doubtful given our personnel and coordinator. So until next year we probably have to find a way to win games 31-28. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) It's not about how many yards the D gives up. It's about how many touchdowns. And, playing hurt and on the road, the defense played well enough to win. The offense did not. The old measuring sticks for defense need to be forgotten. This is a league where the offense is going to score. A lot. Every week. The rules now are such that defenses can't stop offenses. Instead, defenses have to force mistakes and hold teams to FGs in the redzone rather than TDs. That's why offensively, more than ever, every drive is important and you can't waste scoring opportunities (like giving up a sack and knocking yourself out of FG range, 2 bad INTs etc). The game has changed and it's only going to continue to go down this path. Stop thinking about defensive success in terms of yards. It's the worst statistical measuring stick in the modern NFL besides the Tackle stat. Edited October 17, 2011 by tgreg99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 It's not about how many yards the D gives up. It's about how many touchdowns. And, playing hurt and on the road, the defense played well enough to win. The offense did not. The old measuring sticks for defense need to be forgotten. This is a league where the offense is going to score. A lot. Every week. The rules now are such that defenses can't stop offenses. Instead, defenses have to force mistakes and hold teams to FGs in the redzone rather than TDs. That's why offensively, more than ever, every drive is important and you can't waste scoring opportunities (like giving up a sack and knocking yourself out of FG range, 2 bad INTs etc). The game has changed and it's only going to continue to go down this path. Stop thinking about defensive success in terms of yards. It's the worst statistical measuring stick in the modern NFL besides the Tackle stat. I disagree completely. If you are giving up 400+ yards you are going to be giving up lots of points unless you are making picks in the endzone. I agree that CB's and DB's are hancuffed when it comes to WR's and TE's , but where a defense can stop drives is with the DL and LB's. If you get big, strong DL and LB's that can get the to QB and either sack, knockdown or hurry up the QB into bad throws (See Fitz on that bad pick) the defense can stop drives and give the offense a chance to win the game. I'll bet you a dollar that the two teams in the Superbowl this year have a defense that can get off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonramz Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 No offense but you're not telling us anything we don't already know. The question is whether it's correctable. Like you said it's doubtful given our personnel and coordinator. So until next year we probably have to find a way to win games 31-28. Judging by all the posts blaming the offense for the loss sunday, I would say that my post has some merit. And like you said... I did offer some comment on whether or not I thought the defense would be able to turn things around. This still is a message board right? It's not about how many yards the D gives up. It's about how many touchdowns. And, playing hurt and on the road, the defense played well enough to win. The offense did not. The old measuring sticks for defense need to be forgotten. This is a league where the offense is going to score. A lot. Every week. The rules now are such that defenses can't stop offenses. Instead, defenses have to force mistakes and hold teams to FGs in the redzone rather than TDs. That's why offensively, more than ever, every drive is important and you can't waste scoring opportunities (like giving up a sack and knocking yourself out of FG range, 2 bad INTs etc). The game has changed and it's only going to continue to go down this path. Stop thinking about defensive success in terms of yards. It's the worst statistical measuring stick in the modern NFL besides the Tackle stat. Just because a team has injuries doesn't mean that they don't have to play well. Allowing 27 points is not playing well enough to win. Only 5 teams in the NFL allow 27 or more points a game, their record is 4-23 I also strongly disagree with your assertion that yards do not matter. Yardage differential has a huge amount of statistical significance on whether or not you win a game. The thing is that it also correlates with future performance as well... much better than turnovers caused. Top 5 defenses in yardage allowed/ game are a combined 18-9 While we are the #2 scoring team on offense, we are also the 23rd ranked scoring defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwater cadet Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 That how the NFL is today, with the amount of passing, these extra large skilled players, sudden rule changes, there only very few D-fenses that stop anyone completely. The goal for NFL defense today is to hold the offense to long drives of 10 or so plays. It likely the offence will make a mistake,(turnover, holding, etc) within those 10 plays and the defense will get it stop that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I disagree completely. If you are giving up 400+ yards you are going to be giving up lots of points unless you are making picks in the endzone. I agree that CB's and DB's are hancuffed when it comes to WR's and TE's , but where a defense can stop drives is with the DL and LB's. If you get big, strong DL and LB's that can get the to QB and either sack, knockdown or hurry up the QB into bad throws (See Fitz on that bad pick) the defense can stop drives and give the offense a chance to win the game. I'll bet you a dollar that the two teams in the Superbowl this year have a defense that can get off the field. I'm not contending that you can't stop an offense. There are teams with terrific defenses. But with the rules the way they are today, it's impossible to stop an offense consistently between the 20s. Offenses can spread you out too much and make those LBs and DL ineffective until the field gets scrunched. This version of the Bills is never going to be a defense that holds a team to under 300 yards. They don't have the personnel. What they do have is an offense that can score heaps of points in a hurry. For this team, the defense's job is NOT to shut teams out, it's to hold teams to FGs in the redzone over TDs. That's just the reality of where this team is at. And yesterday, the defense played well enough for THIS team to win. But the offense was the one that didn't follow through. But it doesn't matter. It's an out of conference loss against a good team on the road. Those happen all the time to even the best teams. People here just need to realize who this team is versus who they want them to be. With this formula, this team can still win a bunch of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandemonium Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I'm not contending that you can't stop an offense. There are teams with terrific defenses. But with the rules the way they are today, it's impossible to stop an offense consistently between the 20s. Offenses can spread you out too much and make those LBs and DL ineffective until the field gets scrunched. This version of the Bills is never going to be a defense that holds a team to under 300 yards. They don't have the personnel. What they do have is an offense that can score heaps of points in a hurry. For this team, the defense's job is NOT to shut teams out, it's to hold teams to FGs in the redzone over TDs. That's just the reality of where this team is at. And yesterday, the defense played well enough for THIS team to win. But the offense was the one that didn't follow through. But it doesn't matter. It's an out of conference loss against a good team on the road. Those happen all the time to even the best teams. People here just need to realize who this team is versus who they want them to be. With this formula, this team can still win a bunch of games. Aren't you contradicting yourself a bit here? All three Giants TD's were 1 yard runs. If the defense does what you say its job should be in this game, the Bills win 24-15. Even if they only turn one TD into a FG instead, they still win 24-23. Instead, the defense was unable to stop the Giants in the redzone, which is what you say their job is, and they played good enough to win? Doesn't make sense to me. At any rate, I don't see how either side of the ball cost them the game more than the other. Both units made several key mistakes that cost the team the game. Both units also made a few big plays that would have been crucial to the victory if we had been able to pull it out. What this ultimately boils down to is this: The offense played good enough to win if the defense played a little better, and the defense played good enough to win if the offense played a little better. At the end of the day, that just means neither unit played good enough to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey D Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Guys, The offense is not the problem here... Scoring 24 points on the road against a quality football team should be enough to win. It is the defense plain and simple. The lack of a pass rush is hanging our secondary out to dry. We tried blitzing Eli yesterday, it did not work at all... Giants picked it up very well. I know we want to complain about the 2 picks... no QB makes 100% good throws, SJ was open on both plays. The 1st one I'm not 100% positive that it wasn't a back shoulder throw by Fitz, b/c there was a safety deep and perhaps SJ didn't read it right. The 2nd one just a terrible throw off the back foot. But the thing is, not all bad throws get picked... look at Eli's throw on 3rd down at the end of the game... McKelvin probably should have picked it. Just so happens that Fitz came up snake eyes today. I don't know what can be done about the pass rush... I just don't see the talent there... Edwards also hasn't shown me he can scheme up pressure like a Gregg Williams or Rex Ryan can. There will be days were the offense doesn't put up 30+ points, and when that happens the defense needs to just be average instead of bad like it has been most of the year. On a positive note... the rush defense looks much better, and I think we found another guy in Kellen Heard You are correct. The offense is averaging over 31 points a game. That's alot. Right now the D roughly requires the team to score 30 points for us to win. In fact, when we don't score 30 or more PPG, we lose. That's too much to ask out of the offense on a week in and week out basis, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts