Analyzing the Defense (talent related)

[Got_Wood]

Take a look at who started for the Jets D-Line today...

 

Shaun Ellis-Sione Pouha-Mike DeVito

 

Ellis is the only legitimate starter on the line after the Jets lost Jenkins. Pryce, who they just picked up, didn't even play. Yet, the Jets looked great against the run. Why is that? Because they have a great group of linebackers. Bart Scott, David Harris, Jason Taylor, and Bryan Thomas were all over us today.

 

I would argue that we have a good core of D-lineman on this team. They aren't getting pushed backwards, and Williams, Edwards, and even Johnson seemed to be able to take on double teams well today.

 

The problem lies in our linebacker core. The only legit starter we had on the field today was Poz. Kelsay, Torbor, Ayodele, Maybin, and Coleman are incredibly weak. Andra Davis would have helped out a lot today, but that's not enough. It kills me that we could still have guys like London Fletcher and Takeo Spikes still on this team, and we could have drafted Brian Orakpo instead of the reach for Maybin last year int he draft. And someone needs to be fired for extending Kelsay. But this is where we stand. There's no looking back at this point, only forward to the future.

 

I believe we have a good enough front line and secondary to make some noise on defense. We need to spend the rest of this season and next offseason looking for playmakers to add to our linebacker/pass rusher unit. We're not as far away as some people think with this group.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Got_Wood

[oak tree 12]

Take a look at who started for the Jets D-Line today...

 

Shaun Ellis-Sione Pouha-Mike DeVito

 

Ellis is the only legitimate starter on the line after the Jets lost Jenkins. Pryce, who they just picked up, didn't even play. Yet, the Jets looked great against the run. Why is that? Because they have a great group of linebackers. Bart Scott, David Harris, Jason Taylor, and Bryan Thomas were all over us today.

 

I would argue that we have a good core of D-lineman on this team. They aren't getting pushed backwards, and Williams, Edwards, and even Johnson seemed to be able to take on double teams well today.

 

The problem lies in our linebacker core. The only legit starter we had on the field today was Poz. Kelsay, Torbor, Ayodele, Maybin, and Coleman are incredibly weak. Andra Davis would have helped out a lot today, but that's not enough. It kills me that we could still have guys like London Fletcher and Takeo Spikes still on this team, and we could have drafted Brian Orakpo instead of the reach for Maybin last year int he draft. And someone needs to be fired for extending Kelsay. But this is where we stand. There's no looking back at this point, only forward to the future.

 

I believe we have a good enough front line and secondary to make some noise on defense. We need to spend the rest of this season and next offseason looking for playmakers to add to our linebacker/pass rusher unit. We're not as far away as some people think with this group.

 

fletcher is getting benched because he does not fit a 3/4,just reported. spikes role is being diminished also.

[billsfan89]

fletcher is getting benched because he does not fit a 3/4,just reported. spikes role is being diminished also.

 

No joke if we put Flectcher and Spikes at MLB moved Poz to OLB I think our D would be better (Not that Spikes is that good or that Fletcher is a good 3-4 MLB although Fletcher still has it for the most part, its just our current MLB's and OLB's aren't that good) now how much better I have no clue but I would take that over what we have.

 

All in all I think the only productive players we have in the front 7 are Kyle Williams and Poz. Torbor, Edwards and Ayodle are OK but they aren't difference makers while Troup flashes potential his impact isn't that great yet. Maybin, Kelsay, Stroud, Ellis, Carrington, and Spencer Johnson are just not fitting the scheme or not very good.

[DonInBuffalo]

IMO the problem isn't letting people such as Fletcher and Spikes go. The problem is not finding adequate replacements. As an example, the Bills coaching staff decided early on to convert to the 3-4, and had the entire off season to build their roster accordingly. About a month before training camp, they signed Reggie Torber, who had started 3 games in the prior two seasons. He immediately stepped into the starting lineup, as he was better than anyone on the roster at weakside OLB,

[AllDayADay]

We are obviously very handicapped at the LB position. I think a trade or a big FA acquisition needs to happen. Really good linebackers dont come out of the draft that often. We need to overhaul the LBs. Akin AYodele and Reggie Torbor should not be starting for anyone, let alone be on the active roster.

[Got_Wood]

No joke if we put Flectcher and Spikes at MLB moved Poz to OLB I think our D would be better (Not that Spikes is that good or that Fletcher is a good 3-4 MLB although Fletcher still has it for the most part, its just our current MLB's and OLB's aren't that good) now how much better I have no clue but I would take that over what we have.

 

All in all I think the only productive players we have in the front 7 are Kyle Williams and Poz. Torbor, Edwards and Ayodle are OK but they aren't difference makers while Troup flashes potential his impact isn't that great yet. Maybin, Kelsay, Stroud, Ellis, Carrington, and Spencer Johnson are just not fitting the scheme or not very good.

 

Again, I think we're good in the front 3. We've got lots of depth there, and I think it's a quality group of guys. Between Williams, Edwards, Stroud, Johnson, Troup, Carrington, and McCargo, there is plenty to work with.

 

You can't evaluate the effectiveness of the front 3 unless you have quality linebackers behind them making tackles and hitting the gaps they're supposed to be hitting. Poz is the only guy out there that was doing that yesterday. Davis is an adequate player as well. But the rest is absolute garbage. Kelsay, Ayodele and Torbor are all backups. Ellis hasn't proven anything, and Maybin doesn't even belong in the game until he puts on 25 pounds and proves he can even play in the NFL.

 

I'll say it again... we're not as far as people think.

 

We are obviously very handicapped at the LB position. I think a trade or a big FA acquisition needs to happen. Really good linebackers dont come out of the draft that often. We need to overhaul the LBs. Akin AYodele and Reggie Torbor should not be starting for anyone, let alone be on the active roster.

 

Agree 100%. It would be a crime to keep 3 good RB's on a team playing this poorly, especially with all of the other needs this team has. We need 2 linebackers, an offensive tackle, a wide receiver, and a QB. Moves need to be made when your team is rebuilding.

[akm0404]

I'll say it again... we're not as far as people think.

 

Are you on drugs? I'm not trying to sound flippant here, but my god man, are you trolling here? We aren't as far as people think?! I'm not sure how the Buffalo Bills could be any farther from having the talent necessary to compete at the NFL level.

[KOKBILLS]

Akin AYodele and Reggie Torbor should not be starting for anyone, let alone be on the active roster.

 

They were not good enough to be kept as Vet Back-ups on their old Teams so...

 

Agreed...

[JPS]

Again, I think we're good in the front 3. We've got lots of depth there, and I think it's a quality group of guys. Between Williams, Edwards, Stroud, Johnson, Troup, Carrington, and McCargo, there is plenty to work with.

 

You can't evaluate the effectiveness of the front 3 unless you have quality linebackers behind them making tackles and hitting the gaps they're supposed to be hitting. Poz is the only guy out there that was doing that yesterday. Davis is an adequate player as well. But the rest is absolute garbage. Kelsay, Ayodele and Torbor are all backups. Ellis hasn't proven anything, and Maybin doesn't even belong in the game until he puts on 25 pounds and proves he can even play in the NFL.

 

I'll say it again... we're not as far as people think.

 

 

 

Agree 100%. It would be a crime to keep 3 good RB's on a team playing this poorly, especially with all of the other needs this team has. We need 2 linebackers, an offensive tackle, a wide receiver, and a QB. Moves need to be made when your team is rebuilding.

I think you are out of your mind. This is the worst collection of defensive lineman the Bills have ever assembled. Only Kyle Williams shows up, and he looks good compared to others, but that's because he only gets blown off the ball ever other play. If this front office is remotely competent, players like Stroud, McCargo, and S. Johnson will soon be flipping burgers for a living. The Bills' LBs are the weakest in the NFL, but the D-line is very close to the same.

 

Are you on drugs? I'm not trying to sound flippant here, but my god man, are you trolling here? We aren't as far as people think?! I'm not sure how the Buffalo Bills could be any farther from having the talent necessary to compete at the NFL level.

Ask yourself this question: If you were Mike Tannenbaum and you could cherry pick 1 player from the Bills FOR FREE, whom would you take? Who on the Bills would start on the Jets? This is the worst collection of has beens and never will be players ever at One Bills Drive.

[Conch]

Are you on drugs? I'm not trying to sound flippant here, but my god man, are you trolling here? We aren't as far as people think?! I'm not sure how the Buffalo Bills could be any farther from having the talent necessary to compete at the NFL level.

Agreed. Also the D Line is as big a problem as the O Line. Somebody said they didn't get pushed back yesterday. Problem is to be effective against the run you have to penetrate. Needless to say anything about the lack of penetration by this unit on the pass rush all year. Kyle Williams is a back-up NT on every team in the league except ours where he is a starting NT. It just won't work. We do not have a legitimate starter on the D Line. Stroud was invisible last year and again this year. (I know he was out yesterday.) Dwan Edwards? Just collecting his paycheck.

 

Did any else notice that on most every snap the whole D Line would stand up and look to see what was happening before rushing? It did two things (1) they had no leverage to drive ahead as they were standing straight up and (2) the Jets OLine was by them and on the LBs before they knew what was happening. Pathetic coaching and pathetic technique.

[Gabe Northern]

 

 

I would argue that we have a good core of D-lineman on this team. They aren't getting pushed backwards, and Williams, Edwards, and even Johnson seemed to be able to take on double teams well today.

 

 

This is where you're wrong. I'd rewatch the game to clense this thought from your head. As Mark Gaughan's article states, the guards and center were able to engage LBs with ease. That can't happen if you're D Lineman are performing well. In fact, their key function is to keep offensive linemen off of linebackers.

 

The way Troup got tossed, in particular, is hugely troubling for anyone who thinks this unit may become a strength of the team in the near-term. Overpaid Stroud has checked out, Spencer Johnson got run over for hundreds of yards yesterday, and Carrington was lost when he was on the field.

 

IMO the problem isn't letting people such as Fletcher and Spikes go. The problem is not finding adequate replacements. As an example, the Bills coaching staff decided early on to convert to the 3-4, and had the entire off season to build their roster accordingly. About a month before training camp, they signed Reggie Torber, who had started 3 games in the prior two seasons. He immediately stepped into the starting lineup, as he was better than anyone on the roster at weakside OLB,

 

Why create holes for your team to fill? Forget decent replacements. Why not use FA and the draft to fix problem positions rather than replace guys you let get away?

[Got_Wood]

Are you on drugs? I'm not trying to sound flippant here, but my god man, are you trolling here? We aren't as far as people think?! I'm not sure how the Buffalo Bills could be any farther from having the talent necessary to compete at the NFL level.

 

It's a common reaction when a team loses consistently like the Bills have, to start overreacting. We just installed a new scheme, players are getting accustomed to new positions, and we haven't put the pieces together yet. I attribute more of the dismal performance to the scheme than to the players. We have ZERO interceptions this season. We only have 2 sacks from the front seven. Edwards doesn't know what he's doing with this group yet, and he better figure it out fast.

 

It became most apparent to me late in yesterday's game that our scheme is all wrong. The Jets had all of their backups in, including the O-line, and our starters still couldn't stop Shonne Green or Joe McKnight from gaining 6+ yards per carry. Linebackers weren't hitting the right gaps, and everything looked disorganized. This unit is not as bad as the scheme makes them look.

 

Did any else notice that on most every snap the whole D Line would stand up and look to see what was happening before rushing? It did two things (1) they had no leverage to drive ahead as they were standing straight up and (2) the Jets OLine was by them and on the LBs before they knew what was happening. Pathetic coaching and pathetic technique.

 

I completely agree with this. These guys are being coached all wrong up front. They weren't getting pushed back, but they weren't getting penetration or clogging up the lanes either. It was as if they were watching what the O-line was going to do and following them down the line of scrimmage. Really strange to say the least.