In What Sense is Our Defense 'Fine'?

[Gabe Northern]

Allow me to breakdown why all of those posters writing some variant on "the defense will be solid in 2010" are deluding themselves and others who nod while reading their posts...

 

Chan Gailey is a top-flight offensive coordinator and it's exciting to hear how much time he's spending with the quarterbacks and installing the offense. However, this also makes one realize that the defense really is being run entirely by a first-time defensive coordinator who was demoted from linebackers' coach to inside linebackers' coach in his last NFL job. Moreover, as noted in the Gainesville paper, it was believed he was about to be fired from the Dolphins had he not landed another job.

 

At the same time as this first-time coordinator who struggled as a position coach gets his "stuff" together, the Bills are making a transition to a 3-4 defense without the personnel to run it. Let's stipulate that we're solid at DE: the "5" technique looks like a natural position for Spencer Johnson, Dwan Edwards played it well in Baltimore, and Alex Carrington is, in my opinion, likely to prove to be a better pro DE than Jared Odrick despite being taken 1.5 rounds later. Then, we'll also assume that our CBs can make the adjustment away from cover 2, as one would hope the high picks (McKelvin) and money (McGee) invested in the position could yield some solid man-to-man coverage. We know Byrd, Wilson, and Florence can man up at free, strong, and nickel, respectively.

 

That leaves our NT... First, Kyle Williams is unlikely to work out at NT. He'll work his ass off, and get in the backfield to make some plays, but he does not have the size or strength to anchor at the point of attack to keep the inside backers clean. Torrell Troup -- selected over the larger and better Linval Joseph -- weighs 318 lbs and played the 4-3 in college. A small college. Where the defense got roughed up by the likes of East Carolina (403 yds) and Southern Miss (409 yards). Let's hope Lonnie Harvey works out!

 

...and outside LBs. Why didn't Maybin get snaps at OLB last year? A 238 lber couldn't be useful at OLB when you have a run on injuries like we had? The moronic Jauron regime explanation only goes so far. When you have Bryan Scott stepping up at OLB it can only be because the coaches had no confidence Maybin could learn his responsibilities. He's never had to before. He was told to get the quarterback for 10 games in the fall of 2008. Hope for a breakout year, but expect disappointment.

 

What about the other side? Kelsay is getting cut, Schobel is holding out for Roger Clemens treatment. That leaves college DE Danny Batten. Yeah, I like him too, but starting right away? Arthur Moats is supposed to provide depth inside. That leaves Antonio Coleman. Did scouts really miss on this guy so badly despite his college production? I guess we hope so.

 

So aside from the problems stopping the run up the middle (NT), keeping contain (both OLBs), rushing the passer, and providing adequate depth to account for the inevitable injuries, this defense looks really solid.

[Hossage]

I agree completely. Maybin and Kelsay dont belong in the NFL. Our defense is not fine. No matter how well we prepare, there is going to be clusterhumping going on out there for the first half of the year, at least.

 

I think the defense is fine in comparison to the offense. We dont have anyone as bad as Kirk Chambers on the defense.

[Green Lightning]

I agree completely. Maybin and Kelsay dont belong in the NFL.

 

 

An otherwise interesting thread with some vaild points has just gone off the rails..........

 

This is an example of how discussion devolves into the downward spiral of stupidity and negativity.

[Fingon]

Allow me to breakdown why all of those posters writing some variant on "the defense will be solid in 2010" are deluding themselves and others who nod while reading their posts...

 

Chan Gailey is a top-flight offensive coordinator and it's exciting to hear how much time he's spending with the quarterbacks and installing the offense. However, this also makes one realize that the defense really is being run entirely by a first-time defensive coordinator who was demoted from linebackers' coach to inside linebackers' coach in his last NFL job. Moreover, as noted in the Gainesville paper, it was believed he was about to be fired from the Dolphins had he not landed another job.

 

At the same time as this first-time coordinator who struggled as a position coach gets his "stuff" together, the Bills are making a transition to a 3-4 defense without the personnel to run it. Let's stipulate that we're solid at DE: the "5" technique looks like a natural position for Spencer Johnson, Dwan Edwards played it well in Baltimore, and Alex Carrington is, in my opinion, likely to prove to be a better pro DE than Jared Odrick despite being taken 1.5 rounds later. Then, we'll also assume that our CBs can make the adjustment away from cover 2, as one would hope the high picks (McKelvin) and money (McGee) invested in the position could yield some solid man-to-man coverage. We know Byrd, Wilson, and Florence can man up at free, strong, and nickel, respectively.

 

That leaves our NT... First, Kyle Williams is unlikely to work out at NT. He'll work his ass off, and get in the backfield to make some plays, but he does not have the size or strength to anchor at the point of attack to keep the inside backers clean. Torrell Troup -- selected over the larger and better Linval Joseph -- weighs 318 lbs and played the 4-3 in college. A small college. Where the defense got roughed up by the likes of East Carolina (403 yds) and Southern Miss (409 yards). Let's hope Lonnie Harvey works out!

 

...and outside LBs. Why didn't Maybin get snaps at OLB last year? A 238 lber couldn't be useful at OLB when you have a run on injuries like we had? The moronic Jauron regime explanation only goes so far. When you have Bryan Scott stepping up at OLB it can only be because the coaches had no confidence Maybin could learn his responsibilities. He's never had to before. He was told to get the quarterback for 10 games in the fall of 2008. Hope for a breakout year, but expect disappointment.

 

What about the other side? Kelsay is getting cut, Schobel is holding out for Roger Clemens treatment. That leaves college DE Danny Batten. Yeah, I like him too, but starting right away? Arthur Moats is supposed to provide depth inside. That leaves Antonio Coleman. Did scouts really miss on this guy so badly despite his college production? I guess we hope so.

 

So aside from the problems stopping the run up the middle (NT), keeping contain (both OLBs), rushing the passer, and providing adequate depth to account for the inevitable injuries, this defense looks really solid.

I stopped reading after that. Linval Joseph was not a NT prospect.

[Hossage]

An otherwise interesting thread with some vaild points has just gone off the rails..........

 

This is an example of how discussion devolves into the downward spiral of stupidity and negativity.

 

 

I believe you have just provided an example of how a discussion devolves into a downward spiral of stupidity and negativity. Please try to raise the level of discourse.

[Thurman#1]

That leaves our NT... First, Kyle Williams is unlikely to work out at NT. He'll work his ass off, and get in the backfield to make some plays, but he does not have the size or strength to anchor at the point of attack to keep the inside backers clean. Torrell Troup -- selected over the larger and better Linval Joseph -- weighs 318 lbs and played the 4-3 in college. A small college. Where the defense got roughed up by the likes of East Carolina (403 yds) and Southern Miss (409 yards). Let's hope Lonnie Harvey works out!

 

...and outside LBs. Why didn't Maybin get snaps at OLB last year? A 238 lber couldn't be useful at OLB when you have a run on injuries like we had? The moronic Jauron regime explanation only goes so far. When you have Bryan Scott stepping up at OLB it can only be because the coaches had no confidence Maybin could learn his responsibilities. He's never had to before. He was told to get the quarterback for 10 games in the fall of 2008. Hope for a breakout year, but expect disappointment.

 

What about the other side? Kelsay is getting cut, Schobel is holding out for Roger Clemens treatment. That leaves college DE Danny Batten. Yeah, I like him too, but starting right away? Arthur Moats is supposed to provide depth inside. That leaves Antonio Coleman. Did scouts really miss on this guy so badly despite his college production? I guess we hope so.

 

So aside from the problems stopping the run up the middle (NT), keeping contain (both OLBs), rushing the passer, and providing adequate depth to account for the inevitable injuries, this defense looks really solid.

 

 

 

I agree with most of your post

 

You're too negative on Troup (since there is about one 3 - 4 defense in college football, virtually no pro nose tackle has never played it before). He has been predicted to be a good NT by all the scouts, and he was considered behind Joseph by some and in front of him by others. Still, you're right that this year is likely to be a learning year for him. Rookie NTs have a history of being taken to the cleaners. He's not expected to be good for another year or two but IS expected to be good at that time.

 

You're also too harsh on Maybin, who is a complete question mark, but assuming that the reason he wasn't moved to LB last year makes no sense because the coaching staff simply didn't see him as anything but a DE. Not a big surprise then that he wasn't switched to LB.

 

You're certainly right about the lack of OLBs, though.

 

Yeah, it'll be a long year. No, Troup and Maybin aren't definite failures, though any rookie could fail and anyone switching to a new position could too.

 

Yeah, some are Kool-Aid gulpers on this board, but the more realistic know that this defense is better evaluated in terms of how they look in terms of the year 2012, because that will be when the rebuilding process approaches its conclusion.

[ceeroc1]

An otherwise interesting thread with some vaild points has just gone off the rails..........

 

This is an example of how discussion devolves into the downward spiral of stupidity and negativity.

AMEN!!!!

[K-9]

Our secondary will still be playing more than their fair share of cover-2, depending on down/distance.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Sisyphean Bills]

In the sense that a "true fan" should just be thrilled about it.

[McBeane]

In the sense that a "true fan" should just be thrilled about it.

 

Amen! I'm so sick of everyone being so damn negative. I mean this is supposed to be a hobby, no? Have fun with it people. Hope springs eternal this time of year, take a drink every now and again.