Mr. ChumChums Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I saw this posted in here a few months ago, and decided to go back and read it again. A long read, but it really gives you a good understanding on the fundamental principles of the different looks and formations in an NFL defense. Has a nice big section on the 3-4 also http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/0...el_idpguide.php Anyways, from what I can gather, George Edwards learned the 3-4 under Bill Parcells in Miami, and will most likely run his form of 3-4. Basically, what we need are "3 monsters" on the D-line, and 2 BIG, STRONG linebackers in the middle. Speed can be sacrificed for the ILB's in favor of LB's that can basically take on the 2 Guards on every play. But the 2-gap 3-4 front is more difficult to play in today's NFL. Those planet-like defensive linemen are getting harder and harder to find. Players generated by today's college defenses are built for speed. How many can hold the point of attack against a monstrous OT and control two gaps? Not many. How many 245-250 pound linebackers are agile enough to elude a guard on every play and still close down on a RB with 4.45 speed? Very few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rust Belt Nights Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 People say Stroud will be a NT - NO WAY! I say Stroud, Schobel, and Williams rotate DE NT right now would be... Spencer Johnson? We need a NT for sure. Kelsay, Maybin, Poz, and Mitchell will be our LB core Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Stroud states in an inteview with Chris Brown that he'd love to play end in a 3-4. He expects to be 300 lbs. when he reports to camp. He would be a monster prsenece from the end, IMO. http://smr.mm.ticketmaster.com/track?type=...YmQ4NzZkYjk2MDY= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swnybillsfan Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 People say Stroud will be a NT - NO WAY! I say Stroud, Schobel, and Williams rotate DE NT right now would be... Spencer Johnson? We need a NT for sure. Kelsay, Maybin, Poz, and Mitchell will be our LB core how about a new nt (or a couple), stroud, johnson, williams and an addition for the 4rth in the rotation at d-end, and the rest of our d-ends along with the best foaming-at-the-mouth atheletes we can find duke it out for the outside 'backer positions? and...oh yeah...there's the whole mlb issue. let the theorizing begin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. ChumChums Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 People say Stroud will be a NT - NO WAY! I say Stroud, Schobel, and Williams rotate DE NT right now would be... Spencer Johnson? We need a NT for sure. Kelsay, Maybin, Poz, and Mitchell will be our LB core Schobel is definitely not a 3-4 DE. Like in article, you need 3 "planet"-like D-linemen, and that includes the DE's as well. 280-300 lb DE's to basically tie up blockers and protect not only the edges, but also the ILB's from the 2 guards left free by the 2-gap scheme. Maybe Kyle Williams and Stroud could give the DE roles a go? Honestly, none of us have any idea until we see it in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Stroud states in an inteview with Chris Brown that he'd love to play end in a 3-4. He expects to be 300 lbs. when he reports to camp. He would be a monster prsenece from the end, IMO. http://smr.mm.ticketmaster.com/track?type=...YmQ4NzZkYjk2MDY= I think he can play end too. His size is ideal for the monster type end that they use in some 34s. But I guess until we have somebody else on the roster that can play nose, he's probably the guy there - with K. Williams and S. Johnson at the 5's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Poz and Mitchell are way too slow for 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. ChumChums Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 Poz and Mitchell are way too slow for 3-4. Speed isn't necessarily the most important aspect of a 3-4 ILB. Parcells openly favors slower, but stronger LB's that can take on Guards on every play. Now, the real question is... are Poz and Mitchell strong enough to deal with potentially free-roaming Guards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Speed isn't necessarily the most important aspect of a 3-4 ILB. Parcells openly favors slower, but stronger LB's that can take on Guards on every play. Now, the real question is... are Poz and Mitchell strong enough to deal with potentially free-roaming Guards? Mitchell has done it, but he is real slow now. Not sure if he still can. Poz I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Poz and Mitchell are way too slow for 3-4. what? the bigger concern is that Poz is a little small for an ILB in a 34. as for speed - Poz was fast enough to be a MLB in a Tampa-2, where they have to cover a ton of field. You don't need burners at ILB in a 34. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Spencer Johnson would be an ideal 3-4 D End Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. ChumChums Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 what? the bigger concern is that Poz is a little small for an ILB in a 34. as for speed - Poz was fast enough to be a MLB in a Tampa-2, where they have to cover a ton of field. You don't need burners at ILB in a 34. Just as a comparison to 3 of the ILB's listed as examples in the article, Paul Posluszny Height: 6-1 Weight: 238 Kawika Mitchell Height: 6-1 Weight: 253 Kevin Burnett Height: 6-3 Weight: 240 Bradie James Height: 6-2 Weight: 247 Bobby Carpenter Height: 6-2 Weight: 249 Poz is pretty much the same size as Kevin Burnett (albeit...a bit shorter). However, definitely could use some weight gain compared to Bradie James and Bobby Carpenter. Edit: Mitchell is really the ideal size for a 3-4 ILB. Anybody know about his ability to take on O-linemen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Just as a comparison to 3 of the ILB's listed as examples in the article, Paul Posluszny Height: 6-1 Weight: 238 Kevin Burnett Height: 6-3 Weight: 240 Bradie James Height: 6-2 Weight: 247 Bobby Carpenter Height: 6-2 Weight: 249 Poz is pretty much the same size as Kevin Burnett (albeit...a bit shorter). However, definitely could use some weight gain compared to Bradie James and Bobby Carpenter. Also for comparison, 40 times: Burnett 4.6 James 4.75 Carpenter 4.65 Poz is a 4.7 That means Poz is smaller than all, and slower than all but James. plus contrary to what was said above, Poz was not good in a 4-3 set, and was getting beat trying to cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 The 3-4/4-3 hybrid will work just fine for us. Poz was too slow and required to cover too much ground as a tampa 2 LB. Giving him a smaller area of responsibility should make him much more decisive in attacking a proper hole and not getting washed out of plays. Kawika Mitchell was not the best in coverage and allowing him to focus on plugging the run in the middle should also make him more effective. With a 330 - 370 lb Mt Cody like NT Poz and mitchell will be free to tackle the ball carrier all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. ChumChums Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 Stroud states in an inteview with Chris Brown that he'd love to play end in a 3-4. He expects to be 300 lbs. when he reports to camp. He would be a monster prsenece from the end, IMO. http://smr.mm.ticketmaster.com/track?type=...YmQ4NzZkYjk2MDY= Stroud is currently a 3-technique DT right? Didn't Warren Sapp try switching from a 3-technique to a 5-technique 3-4 DE? That experiment was largely unsuccessful. I remain optimistic though, but it's something to think about. This has been tried before, (with one of the best DT's ever) and has failed. Let's hope this isn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I saw this posted in here a few months ago, and decided to go back and read it again. A long read, but it really gives you a good understanding on the fundamental principles of the different looks and formations in an NFL defense. Has a nice big section on the 3-4 also http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/0...el_idpguide.php Anyways, from what I can gather, George Edwards learned the 3-4 under Bill Parcells in Miami, and will most likely run his form of 3-4. Basically, what we need are "3 monsters" on the D-line, and 2 BIG, STRONG linebackers in the middle. Speed can be sacrificed for the ILB's in favor of LB's that can basically take on the 2 Guards on every play. I've read abotu the Parcells 3-4 and the other types as well and have to think that from Edwards' comments, the Parcells defense will be the goal in 2 or 3 years, while in the meantime they will go with something they have the personel for. I have a gut feeling (especially if Schobel returns) that they will play a one gap 3-4 with some two gap principles when it makes sense and if they have the personel. I see them trying to get a rotational NT for now that they can use in obvious running situations and then go light on the DL in passing situations. Also bet Schbel plays with his hand on the ground in passing situations. I have a feeling it will look a lot like the defense we play now, jus twith more varieties of blitzes - maybe like what they played under GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I've read abotu the Parcells 3-4 and the other types as well and have to think that from Edwards' comments, the Parcells defense will be the goal in 2 or 3 years, while in the meantime they will go with something they have the personel for. I have a gut feeling (especially if Schobel returns) that they will play a one gap 3-4 with some two gap principles when it makes sense and if they have the personel. I see them trying to get a rotational NT for now that they can use in obvious running situations and then go light on the DL in passing situations. Also bet Schbel plays with his hand on the ground in passing situations. I have a feeling it will look a lot like the defense we play now, jus twith more varieties of blitzes - maybe like what they played under GW. I agree with this. It will take time to develop the personnel. I expect a mix of both sets depending on situations. As for the linebackers, Poz and Mitchell would be OK in the middle (McClain would be nice though) The priority is a NT that can keep the center and and a guard off the inside backers or it does not matter who plays the middle spots. A weak D-Line dooms the 3-4. Unfortunately, the Bills could not accomplish this with 4 lineman for the most pasrt in recent years. What we really need is some creativity, agressiveness, and willingness to play to the strengths of the personnel on hand and it sounds like that is the philosophy of both Edwards and Gailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. ChumChums Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 I've read abotu the Parcells 3-4 and the other types as well and have to think that from Edwards' comments, the Parcells defense will be the goal in 2 or 3 years, while in the meantime they will go with something they have the personel for. I have a gut feeling (especially if Schobel returns) that they will play a one gap 3-4 with some two gap principles when it makes sense and if they have the personel. I see them trying to get a rotational NT for now that they can use in obvious running situations and then go light on the DL in passing situations. Also bet Schbel plays with his hand on the ground in passing situations. I have a feeling it will look a lot like the defense we play now, jus twith more varieties of blitzes - maybe like what they played under GW. Makes enough sense. A 1-gap 3-4 would better suit our current personnel. Either way, the key to doing well would be to get a monster NT that would tie up 2, maybe even 3 blockers. How would Stroud do as a RE in this system (ie. Bruce's old spot)? RE in a 1-gap 3-4 would actually have significant pass-rushing responsibilities, so I'm not sure if he's quick enough for that. He'll definitely fit as the LE, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts