Tired of all the negativity.....

[BillsfaninFl]

With all due respect airing frustrations is what friends do around other friends, especially when times are bad. Sometimes just being able to talk about it and finding other folks with the same thoughts and opinions makes you feel better.

 

Personally I've got no problem with all the negativity, it is what it is, how about giving us some results to feel positive about so we have something good to talk about...

 

You're right. I can't agree with mindless fandom. The NFL is an entertainment venue. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect to be entertained. If the quality of the product is not where it should be, then you have two choices: walk away or complain. Several people have indicated they are walking away. That's fine. Others, like myself, want to continue to be Bills fans, so they hope someone is listening when they complain, and that something good will happen.

 

But I'll never agree to being a fan without the right to express my disappointments, to speculate about what is wrong, to suggest what changes need to be made to bring about improvements and/or to indicate when I think the customer is being short-changed.

[BillsfaninFl]

First of all, you don't know me or know anything about me. I served my country for 23 years in the U.S. Army and am a Legion of Merit recipient. So much for mediocrity huh? I am currently a systems engineer building new Army systems and very succesful at that as well. Maybe if you actually read my post you might understand it, but judging by your response, I doubt it. Far from accepting the status quo, what I was suggesting is that people be more positive in their suggestions on how to improve the team. I get just as frustrated as anyone else and I stated that in my post. I just don't feel that being negative about every single thing that the team does is productive or even interesting.

 

How's this? I love the Bills. They are the heart and soul of western New York. In fact, they are really the only team in New York and I am proud to say they reside in my home town. I enjoy the tailgating, cheerleaders, souvenirs and lots of other things. The NFL experience is an important part of my life. I love all these things, but the way management runs the organization... not so much.

[BillyBaroo]

I think I actually enjoy being miserable - plus it is a proven medical fact that some depression is normal and actually healthy. I guess that's why I like Schope and the Bulldog so much!

[BillsWatch]

Looking at the Bills , if it were a normal business, the entire management team would have been let go multiple times over the past 10 years.

 

Nonsense! I am on a program which was supposed to be operational 6 years ago and they are still working on it with massive changes and management team is still in place and moved up in company. Lots of people moved on but aside from management team who were promoted to other hotter programs (meaning more discretionary money) none of the management got bounced and I work on multi-million dollar project. Management generally protects itself and unless there are outside mandates it does not change.

 

Maybe you are happy to continue to root for a loser, but a lot of people have had enough (me included!!!)

Well if you are no longer a Bills fan change your username and not bother posting. Bills Fandom is not like a job you keep despite disagreeing with management because it pays the Bills.

[John Cocktosten]

Nonsense! I am on a program which was supposed to be operational 6 years ago and they are still working on it with massive changes and management team is still in place and moved up in company. Lots of people moved on but aside from management team who were promoted to other hotter programs (meaning more discretionary money) none of the management got bounced and I work on multi-million dollar project. Management generally protects itself and unless there are outside mandates it does not change.

Comparing your job to the inner workings of an NFL football team is pretty much ludicrous.

[nostyle126]

Nonsense! I am on a program which was supposed to be operational 6 years ago and they are still working on it with massive changes and management team is still in place and moved up in company. Lots of people moved on but aside from management team who were promoted to other hotter programs (meaning more discretionary money) none of the management got bounced and I work on multi-million dollar project. Management generally protects itself and unless there are outside mandates it does not change.

You must work for the government.

[AF88Bills]

I have been a Bills fan since the very beginnings in the 1960's. I have been through the AFL glory days, the Super Bowl years and all the lean years as well. Lately I have been reading this forum and it makes me sick. If you guys hate the organization so much, then it is time to find another team. All the ridiculing and ignorance does not speak well for those of you that insist on taking that attitude. I want the team to win as much as anyone. I am as frustrated as you are, but part of being a fan is sticking behind your team in good times and bad. These are the bad ones. If you want to leave then go ahead and find another team, but please stop polluting this site with your negativity. As for Chan Gailey, from what I have read, he is a good man and a good coach. He has had a winning record in every stint as a head coach except one year in Division II college football. He has coached in all facets of the game and been successful doing so. If I am a GM and look at coaching resumes, this guy is highly qualified and certainly the most well respected candidate among other coaches of those that were considered. He is a man of character and integrity. For my money, it was a good hire. Screw the national media. Since when do they know anything? Especially about Buffalo. If you are worried about what others think of the city and the franchise, then you will never be happy, because there will always be bigots that ridicule Buffalo, because they don't know any better. I have a suggestion. Enjoy the games. Even the ones we lose. Is it frustrating? Yes. Is it painful? Yes. Guess what, that's all part of living and breathing with your team. Go Bills!

 

 

Dude, I agree with you in many ways...the negativity gets old. I may not enjoy the games they lose, unless it was a good game. the Bills just haven't been playing good interesting football lately.

 

As for the negativity, some people just aren't ever going to be happy unless they're complaining about something. You're not going to change them...those that complain all the time are most likely miserable, and the Bills just help remind them how bad life is for them.

 

Hopefully better days are ahead of us, so lets see what happens. If the Bills continue to suck, nobody is holding a gun to their head saying they have to watch or support this team....

[xsoldier54]

I read your post. You said that the fans should enjoy losing. Well there is losing and then there is being totally lost. Sitting through a Bills games and watching the complete incompetence is not like a 34-31 loss where both teams played great and on that day the better team won. Year after year this team gets worse and the way they go about it is totally embarassing. Calling fans ignorant for ridiculing the Bills is ignorant in itself. Your CHOSEN profession tells you to keep in a straight line and keep your mouth shut. I have never and will never subscribe to that mentality and I don't feel the need to credential what I do for a living.

 

So while you are entitled to your opinion, I find your "rose colored glasses" attitude a thousand times more offensive than someone pointing out the fact that the Bills suck in a negative tone.

 

 

When a team loses through complacency, it will constantly search for new and more intricate explanations to explain away defeat.

-Pat Riley

I respect your opinion. As I have stated, I just don't find negativity to be productive or particularly interesting. I would rather enjoy my life than B word about what might be. I live in the real world and the Bills are what they are. I get as frustrated as the next guy, but bitching just isn't productive. By the way, I said enjoy the games, not the losing, big difference. My chosen profession does not tell me to keep my mouth shut and I am retired by the way. If you knew anything about the Army you would know that we have a responsibility to voice our opinions to leadership when we feel they are making the wrong decision. That entails offering alternative courses of action, not just saying "you suck". Peace my friend.

[zazie]

With all due respect airing frustrations is what friends do around other friends, especially when times are bad. Sometimes just being able to talk about it and finding other folks with the same thoughts and opinions makes you feel better.

 

Personally I've got no problem with all the negativity, it is what it is, how about giving us some results to feel positive about so we have something good to talk about...

Exactly.

 

For a brief shingng moment when we were 5-1 a couple of years ago, the board was very vry positive.

 

The Bills bring negativity naturally with every draft choice, every exec or coaching hire, everything.

 

I asked the other day what was something positive the Bills had done in the last five years, since the DJ hire. Marcus Straoud trade and Byrd draft, that about sums it up.

 

Five year of inexplicable bad moves - not moves that were good on paper and just didn't pan out, plain bad moves like blah blah and blah.

 

Leslie Frazier is a nice change of pace, though, I think he is going to make a real difference as our head coach. Oops....

[CodeMonkey]

You must work for the government.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Certainly not the public sector (except maybe financial).

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

Exactly.

 

For a brief shingng moment when we were 5-1 a couple of years ago, the board was very vry positive.

 

The Bills bring negativity naturally with every draft choice, every exec or coaching hire, everything.

 

I asked the other day what was something positive the Bills had done in the last five years, since the DJ hire. Marcus Straoud trade and Byrd draft, that about sums it up.

 

Five year of inexplicable bad moves - not moves that were good on paper and just didn't pan out, plain bad moves like blah blah and blah.

 

Leslie Frazier is a nice change of pace, though, I think he is going to make a real difference as our head coach. Oops....

 

zazie, you hit the nail on the head my friend. This goes all the way back to when Butler left and Donahoe came in. Just off the top of my head look at these moves:

 

1. We pass on Marvin Lewis and John Fox, and we went off the radar and hired Gregg Williams.

2. We drafted Willis McGahee

3. We hire Dick Jauron over Mike Sherman.

4. Donte Whitner 8th overall + Trade up to get John McCargo

5. Not retaining Jason Peters

6. Not retaining Pat Williams

 

Now the team has made other blunders, such as Mike Williams, but we were for the most part happy with the pick at the time. Some may have prefered McKinnie, but it certainly wasn't a "WTF are we doing???" kind of moment. My point is, these were just a few of the key moments over the past decade where you can't cop out with the excuse of hindsight being 20/20. These are moments where the fans on this board overwhelmingly could and would have made the right call and the team just left you scratching your head.

 

Now for a little line item commentary, as only YE OLE can break it down:

 

- Everyone felt like we were going to get Marvin Lewis. The media noted his connection with Donahoe, and that was THE choice. And I guarantee you, had you done a poll of fans, that's the guy they would've hired.

 

- The McGahee pick, I confess, I liked at the time. I thought it was exciting and gave us a chance to get a potential superstar at a bargain position in the draft. That said, I think I was in the minority, and most of Bills Nation knew we needed help in many other areas and this simply was not a "luxury" pick that we had the means of making... yet we did. Conventional wisdom at this pick would've been to bolster the line, and both Eric Steinbach and Jon Stinchcomb were there at this pick, and both have been very good lineman. Dallas Clark was also available at this pick and could've given us a legitimate target at TE. Had we made any of these picks, it would've jived with conventional wisdom and filled a legitimate need.

 

- Dick Jauron over Mike Sherman was gut wrenching for me. It just made no sense. You had a guy in Sherman who took the Packers to playoffs 4 straight seasons, had a winning record in 5 of his 6 seasons as HC, and was an offensive guy who had produced really good offenses on the field. His offense finished in the top 6 in the league 4 of his 6 seasons with the Packers. Jauron had 4 losing seasons out of 5 with the Bears. And aside from his 1 winning season with the Bears, his offense finished 23rd or worse every single season. Mind you... we've had an anemic offense for a decade, save for a couple short stretches in '02 and '04. Was this just not common sense? I wanted to put my fist through the wall when this went down.

 

- Fast forward to 2006 draft... wanted to put my fist through the wall again. Did anyone in their right mind think that we were NOT taking Haloti Ngata at that pick? I mean seriously... hindsight aside, that was THE pick there. Again, if we took a poll on this board to determine who we would take the 15 minutes leading up to our pick, Haloti Ngata is a Bill today. Instead we took a safety that was projected to go mid first rd... then a couple of hours later, we move up to pick again in rd. 1 and I thought "ok, this is good, Mangold and Lutui are on the board..." and then... we take John McCargo. I had seen McCargo projected to go anywhere from the late 2nd to early 4th rd. leading up to that draft. Maybe someone else would've taken him sooner, but it was still a reach and I'm positive once again had even the fans been polled on this we would've said lets go get Mangold or Lutui here... they project to be studs on the O-line.

 

- In regard to Jason Peters' situation... I really like Eric Wood and if he can come back healthy, we have a good player. That being said, the one time our F.O. made a good move of late and turned an undrafted free agent into an all pro left tackle, we traded him for a low first rd. pick! I'm sorry... but that's once again finding new ways to lose. Was Peters asking for too much? Probably. But, the right thing to do for the product on the field was to make it work and retain him, and never had him hold out in the first place. This hardline B.S. does not work. I know people get annoyed with player salary demands, and we frequently overpaid guys during Butler's tenure... but the bottom line is, that puts a winner on the field. Maybe guys like Holecek, Rogers, Fina, etc. were overpaid at times, but we had a pretty good team here until we started hardballing everybody and sending them packing.

 

- Same thing for Pat Williams... WHY??? We just let him walk away as if he had no value!

 

Again... this team hasn't been bad for so long, because we've had bad breaks along the way. While we have had the occassional Mike Williams debacle... those botches have been much fewer and futher between than the absolute head scratchers we've endured.

 

In an alternate universe somewhere... Pat Williams and Haloti Ngata are DT's right now, and NOBODY can run against us. And guys like Jason Peters, Deuce Lutui, Nick Mangold, and Eric Steinbach are opening holes all over the place for Fred Jackson. AND... we may even have a decent coach like a Mike Sherman who continues to get us to the playoffs... maybe even a few division titles.

 

For all of those who claim the negativity level to be too much around here, this is why. Some unfotunate breaks and bad luck leading to a losing season here or there, we could understand. But, time and time again sabotaging ourselves is just getting unbearable. It's a simple fix... start drafting the guys that make sense to draft at that position. Just follow conventional wisdom once and a while and don't outsmart ourselves. Start hiring coaches that actually come with a decent resume. Stop making it seem like we're blatantly going in the wrong direction at every turn.

[nostyle126]

I think the Bills draft just fine.

 

- Roscoe Parrish

[Clippers of Nfl]

soldier dude, its normal to be negative when the products not that good.

 

u buy a cd player that doesnt work, that actually scratches like 3 of your good cds. you're going to be happy that u will get a refund? no you will complain, be negative, and get your money back.

 

u want positive reinforcement. but sometimes we cant do that.

 

skip the posts or topics that dont amuze your interest. thats what i do. if a topic is boring, i skip it or go on to something else.

[billsfreak]

Another Bills fan on this board that can't read. I didn't say I enjoy the way things are being run. I just said that I am tired of all the negativity. I don't think it is productive or interesting at all. Fine, complain all you want, but to constantly whine about everything the team does or fails to do just gets old. I agree that people have a right to their opinions, just as I do. What I was saying is that this forum tends to be excessively negative and it gets boring.

For your information, I can read and very well, your post was as much whining as any other post that anyone else has posted on here. I too served my country in the Navy for almost 21 years, whatever that has to do with it, I wasn't questioning your character, unwillingness to serve your country, although it appears that you are still in the military mode telling people on this board what to do, when you have no authority over any of them. I don't even complain about everything, much less whine, if the Bills do something I agree with, I will be the first person on the board to say that I agree with the move whatever it might be. It is only a passion for the team that makes so many people upset about the way the team has been owned, run, managed, coached and played for over a decade. It is the American way to voice your opinion, and if I must, because of people like yourself and myself, along with hundreds of thousands of other Americans who have proudly served this great country we live in, we have the right to speak our mind-it is a free country.

[billsfreak]

I think the Bills draft just fine.

 

- Roscoe Parrish

I second that

-Mike Williams

[zazie]

I second that

-Mike Williams

Then its unanimous

 

John McCargo and Donte Whitner

[bladiebla]

Well look at it this way...

 

Last year when we did the o-line experiment about 70% said the same, let's give this a chance, TO is here, we'll be brilliant. I was one of those wearing pink colored glasses...

 

Now we hire an OC as HC that hasnt proven anything as HC in his past 7 year in college other then mediocrity, we're about to hire a RB coach as OC. Gaileys last year as OC in the NFL he posted a 2-14 record and his so called NFL HC experience was done with an extremely talented team more then 10 years ago which he didnt build himself. His college team he did build himself and that is something more to worry about. Reality is that the guy hasnt shown anything for the past 8 years.

 

On top of that Gailey announced he'll most likely hire a bunch of nonames as his assistants.

 

Thing is if we hired a guy with real HC experience we could have had Gailey as OC just as easy, the fact that Gailey didnt bring any staff with him shows he was as surprised as anyone he landed this job.

 

Then we finally get rid of John Guy which does seem to be something possitive however we don't have any replacement lined up... Again...

 

Dan Pees rumour can't be anything but false as the guy quit for personal reasons which turned out to be being diagnosed with cancer: http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/...ancer-in-summer

 

I'm sure hoping everything works out but given the evidence presented at this time it's looking rather gloom and doom with the only postive thing about it that we have at least a true football passion set in Gailey and Nix. If it does work out (which I honestly hope it does) it will be more a stroke of luck then wisdom. But for now it all seems to have way too much in common with the Fins Cameron hire. Next we'll draft a PR with our #1 pick because his family is awesome and has tremendous character...

[xsoldier54]

For your information, I can read and very well, your post was as much whining as any other post that anyone else has posted on here. I too served my country in the Navy for almost 21 years, whatever that has to do with it, I wasn't questioning your character, unwillingness to serve your country, although it appears that you are still in the military mode telling people on this board what to do, when you have no authority over any of them. I don't even complain about everything, much less whine, if the Bills do something I agree with, I will be the first person on the board to say that I agree with the move whatever it might be. It is only a passion for the team that makes so many people upset about the way the team has been owned, run, managed, coached and played for over a decade. It is the American way to voice your opinion, and if I must, because of people like yourself and myself, along with hundreds of thousands of other Americans who have proudly served this great country we live in, we have the right to speak our mind-it is a free country.

My reference to my military service was a response to an attack on my character by another poster who said that I was satisfied with mediocrity. I was merely pointing out that mediocrity is not part of my makeup. I respect the opinion of yourself and everyone else on this board. I just find much of it to be overly negative and unproductive and very boring. You are right, everyone has a right to their opinions, just as I do mine. I find many of the posters on this forum to be both illiterate and boring with their constant negativity and many of the nonsensical posts. They have the right to do so and I will be the first to defend that right. That doesn't mean that I have to agree with them or you for that matter.