Thurman#1 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 As for the second argument, it's too bad that Marv, just a few weeks ago and over a year removed from the job, was still defending his efforts as GM of the Bills. No he wasn't. He was defending some of the people he brought in, and that is way different from defending himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Let's not let Guy and Modrak off the hook and why are they still employed? Don't get me wrong, Guy and Modrak need to go ASAP, but I think DJ had more say in personnel than people think. After all, he had personnel control in Chicago from 99-00, and probably assumed the job because the GM had been out of football for years and was in his 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Don't get me wrong, Guy and Modrak need to go ASAP, but I think DJ had more say in personnel than people think. After all, he had personnel control in Chicago from 99-00, and probably assumed the job because the GM had been out of football for years and was in his 80s. BillsVet, The reason he had more say on personnel is that the front office or illusionary front office didn't exist, at least in a conventional way. There was no defacto GM. Marv Levy was a congenial man who pursued a consensus on personnel decisions. So there should be no surprise that the HC on the field would wield an inordinate amount of influence on personnel decisions. The owner created an organizational structure which was nonsensical from a football operation standpoint, but made sense from a standpoint that there was no one person who could challenge the whims of the owner and his finance people, Littman and Oberdorf. Until someone who has had experience in a successful organization and has been involved in an organization which is structured primarily to evaluate football talent is brought in this team will continue to flounder. It is utterly absurd that the long time owner has to be convinced to bring in people with football expertise to run his football team. Ralph has owned the Bills for half a century. If the fading owner hasn't figured it out by now when will he ever do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mob16151 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Short-term success as token marketing move. I hope you were kidding about the success part. Cuz I dont remember no success. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Until someone who has had experience in a successful organization and has been involved in an organization which is structured primarily to evaluate football talent is brought in this team will continue to flounder. It is utterly absurd that the long time owner has to be convinced to bring in people with football expertise to run his football team. Ralph has owned the Bills for half a century. If the fading owner hasn't figured it out by now when will he ever do so? I don't disagree, and believe RW is increasingly going into a shell. Old men aren't the types that try new and exciting things, which gave us Levy as GM in 2006. That move has turned out to be bad for the franchise, but stems from the owner's distrust of anything he doesn't already know. Consensus is garbage. Give me a strong leader who knows personnel, but has the humility to listen to the people he hires. And no, TD didn't do that at all. I still maintain RW doesn't have many contacts in the NFL, and because of this I'm not optimistic any real power will be ceded to the next GM. These are trying times for non-casual and informed Bills fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbuffalobob Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 There's 1 more key evaluator forgotton... a$$es in seats. No tarps and 1, maybe 2 blackouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 The bottom line is, the Bills with the current organizational structure would be just as bad, if not worse if Marv Levy had never come back as a GM. Until changes are made at the top, nothing will change no matter who they bring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I don't disagree, and believe RW is increasingly going into a shell. Old men aren't the types that try new and exciting things, which gave us Levy as GM in 2006. That move has turned out to be bad for the franchise, but stems from the owner's distrust of anything he doesn't already know. Consensus is garbage. Give me a strong leader who knows personnel, but has the humility to listen to the people he hires. And no, TD didn't do that at all. I still maintain RW doesn't have many contacts in the NFL, and because of this I'm not optimistic any real power will be ceded to the next GM. These are trying times for non-casual and informed Bills fans. BillsVet, It is not a question of having an owner who is willing to be innovative or creative? It is a question of having an owner who is willing to exercise common sense and basic judgment. Getting a quality GM to run the football operation is not a radical thought. Every successful team has the same basic structure of a GM and front office which knows the football business. The owner has made over a quarter of a BILLION dollars during the past dismal 10 years. He also enjoys tinkering with his toy (franchise). The organizational structure is designed by him and for him. Having a marketing guru (Russ Brandon) run the football side of the business makes sense to Ralph. To me it is idiotic, especially when the franchise is competing with franchises run by football people such as Bill Parcells and Bill Billichick. As with you, I don't have a lot of confidence that the owner will make the major changes necessary to alter the direction that this franchise is heading. I'm sure there will be some cosmetic changes made by the owner and marketing man to keep the fan base hanging on to their faint hopes. But in my opinion there won't be much change on how the organization performs as long as the present owner is the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 No he wasn't. He was defending some of the people he brought in, and that is way different from defending himself. "Way different"? That is exactly what I was referring to. He was GM. That means it was his job to bring the right people into the building to turn this thing around. He said in no uncertain terms that he still believed in those people and defended the course he set and those people were still following. Jauron, Modrak, Guy, et.al. were doing a good job, just be patient. Which isn't "way different" in context in any way, shape or form at all. He was defending his decisions by defending the people he made his primary decisions about. So, if you went out and blew your inheritance on buying a real-estate investment that turned out to be a swamp and told anybody that would listen, "I still think the property is worth something and it's value will go up if I'm patient enough," you think people will be tricked into believing your idiotic purchase decision is unrelated to your present feelings about the property? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I hope you were kidding about the success part. Cuz I dont remember no success. lol Not really. In the short-term, Marv made many fans feel good about the Bills again. By reaching back to the past glory days, the Bills were marketing a mirage in 20/20 hindsight. Fans were fed up and angry with Tom Donahoe. Marv Levy was a familiar and calming face to put on the franchise. It turned out that Mike Mularkey hit the nail on the head, though. Marv was ill-equipped for the job and the structure then put in place has been a bad one that hasn't given the Bills a serious chance of competing. So there was a nice, warm honeymoon briefly. 4 years later, we can truly evaluate the direction the Bills were sent in back then. And, the results are dismal. The draft looks bad. The coach has been fired. No free agents remain with the team. And, the word is that the front office may undergo a total overhaul after this season. So, yes, over the long-term, you are right. It was a failure and the glow of that honeymoon is forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirty Year Fan Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Not really. In the short-term, Marv made many fans feel good about the Bills again. By reaching back to the past glory days, the Bills were marketing a mirage in 20/20 hindsight. Fans were fed up and angry with Tom Donahoe. Marv Levy was a familiar and calming face to put on the franchise. It turned out that Mike Mularkey hit the nail on the head, though. Marv was ill-equipped for the job and the structure then put in place has been a bad one that hasn't given the Bills a serious chance of competing. So there was a nice, warm honeymoon briefly. 4 years later, we can truly evaluate the direction the Bills were sent in back then. And, the results are dismal. The draft looks bad. The coach has been fired. No free agents remain with the team. And, the word is that the front office may undergo a total overhaul after this season. So, yes, over the long-term, you are right. It was a failure and the glow of that honeymoon is forgotten. Awesome Post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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