Mike Zimmer For Head Coach

[BADOLBILZ]

I would not have a problem with Zimmer (or Grimm). I had heard (read somewhere?) that Zimmer was viewed by many as very much a young Parcells-type.

 

If we go the young coach route, however, we need a real NFL GM.

 

53 is not young. Shanahan is 57? Not saying Zimmer won't make a fine HC someday, but the Bills really need to stop wishing upon a star and actually hire someone based on qualifications.

[GG]

Yeah, and he was considered as a possible HC candidate at the time, just like Fewell is(was?) by some now. Neither of them is more than a good DB coach, IMO, and Gray has settled in at his level in Washington. Nowadays, if you can't come up with a defense that consistently puts pressure on the QB without getting torched in the secondary, you just aren't a good DC. You are bottom half of the league and bottom half coaches get cycled out. It's near blasphemy that Fewell even be considered based on his LOUSY defenses.

 

You mention GW and LeBeau, Dick LeBeau was brought in because JG couldn't REALLY get it done. When you think about it, the Bills at that point actually had 3 current/former DC's on staff that, at least statistically, had guided defenses to top 2 rankings in the NFL. Where did that get them? Home for the playoffs. It's an offensive minded, quarterback driven league and the Bills need to recognize it with their next hiring.

 

I don't know where you get the idea that Gray was considered a possible HC at the time. He often spoke about his goal as being the coach and received the obligatory Rooney interview, but it was clear that he was not up to the task, because none of the defenses he ran were his own.

 

As for getting an OC to run the team, there is no correlation either, because you're just as likely to a Linehan/Cameron disaster as you would with a DC promotion. Bottom line is will the former coordinator have the mental capacity to handle the job of running the team and be able to hire competent assistants that get the best out of the roster?

 

Don Corryell in his prime wouldn't be able to get production out of Losman/Edwards/Fitzpatrick.

[BADOLBILZ]

I don't know where you get the idea that Gray was considered a possible HC at the time. He often spoke about his goal as being the coach and received the obligatory Rooney interview, but it was clear that he was not up to the task, because none of the defenses he ran were his own.

 

As for getting an OC to run the team, there is no correlation either, because you're just as likely to a Linehan/Cameron disaster as you would with a DC promotion. Bottom line is will the former coordinator have the mental capacity to handle the job of running the team and be able to hire competent assistants that get the best out of the roster?

 

Don Corryell in his prime wouldn't be able to get production out of Losman/Edwards/Fitzpatrick.

 

Gray was considered just like Fewell has been. I know you consider yourself a historian, but if you can't acknowledge that you are just being contrarian.

 

As for your bottom line, you are right, but the past has shown us that Phillips, Williams and Jauron could NOT hire competent offensive coaches. Even a guy like Tony Dungy needed offense thrust upon him in Indy after his putrid offenses continually undermined his talented Tampa teams. Wade inherited Jason Garret in Dallas....he couldn't even get Marc Trestman to follow him instead of taking a dead end job in Arizona in 1998.

 

So you tell me, are we to feel comfortable that an out of the box, 53 year old candidate who is currently the DC for the CINCI BENGALS is going to not only choose the right assistants but be able to get them to hitch their career paths to his cart? Get real people. This method has failed repeatedly in Buffalo. See the coaching tree. Non existent. Talented young coaches will almost certainly follow winning coaches.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Someone help me out here, who is the assistant from Buffalo who started in Buffalo and went on to do much better later on? I'd say Jerry Glanville, but he came to Buffalo as an assistant after having already been a DC in Atlanta in the 1970's. Pete Carroll was an assistant briefly. I guess he is the only branch on the tree. A guy who couldn't win in the NFL. I can't remember if he was on Marv's staff, but if so, he is the only branch on that tree and that's a reach. Remember, Ted Marchibroda was a HC before Marv ever was, so he wasn't part of that lineage.

 

Can't think of anyone, Dick. Unless you count Pete Metzelaars and Frank Reich who won a Super Bowl with Indy after playing here. That's another thing Ralph sucks at. Building an organizational heritage.

[Endless Ike]

I hear what everyone is saying about getting an offensive minded guy. But let's keep in mind it has been just as long since weve had a good defense.

 

we had one of the best defenses in the league in the middle of this decade...you've got to go back another 10 years to find when we had one of the best offenses in the league

[GG]

Gray was considered just like Fewell has been. I know you consider yourself a historian, but if you can't acknowledge that you are just being contrarian.

 

Gray was certainly considered, but I highly doubt that the consideration was beyond the token Rooney interview. I think that for people in the inner circle know how effective the DCs have been on the team. That's why Wade received serious consideration, as did Cottrell. But not Gray.

 

As for your bottom line, you are right, but the past has shown us that Phillips, Williams and Jauron could NOT hire competent offensive coaches. Even a guy like Tony Dungy needed offense thrust upon him in Indy after his putrid offenses continually undermined his talented Tampa teams. Wade inherited Jason Garret in Dallas....he couldn't even get Marc Trestman to follow him instead of taking a dead end job in Arizona in 1998.

 

So you tell me, are we to feel comfortable that an out of the box, 53 year old candidate who is currently the DC for the CINCI BENGALS is going to not only choose the right assistants but be able to get them to hitch their career paths to his cart? Get real people. This method has failed repeatedly in Buffalo. See the coaching tree. Non existent. Talented young coaches will almost certainly follow winning coaches.

 

It's hard to use Buffalo's history as an example because Buffalo's coaching history is a mess. Greggo was no better evaluator of assistants than Mularkey, who probably had the highest pedigree for an up and coming OC at the time. Levy was an old coot, but the offensive talent that he brought in early on was exemplary. People forget that the only reason that Marchibroda came to town was because Bobby Ross took the Georgia Tech job before camp started.

 

I'm not going to get hung up on age, because young guys can also fail with the best of them.

 

The main consideration of picking out the right one is guessing whether the coordinator will have the capacity to handle the full job. It's not that easy to spot, and that's why you have so many failures. On paper, you could not have found a more qualified candidate than Melvin Williams.

[BADOLBILZ]

Gray was certainly considered, but I highly doubt that the consideration was beyond the token Rooney interview. I think that for people in the inner circle know how effective the DCs have been on the team. That's why Wade received serious consideration, as did Cottrell. But not Gray.

 

 

 

It's hard to use Buffalo's history as an example because Buffalo's coaching history is a mess. Greggo was no better evaluator of assistants than Mularkey, who probably had the highest pedigree for an up and coming OC at the time. Levy was an old coot, but the offensive talent that he brought in early on was exemplary. People forget that the only reason that Marchibroda came to town was because Bobby Ross took the Georgia Tech job before camp started.

 

I'm not going to get hung up on age, because young guys can also fail with the best of them.

 

The main consideration of picking out the right one is guessing whether the coordinator will have the capacity to handle the full job. It's not that easy to spot, and that's why you have so many failures. On paper, you could not have found a more qualified candidate than Melvin Williams.

 

Mularkey was not a hot candidate when hired. The year before, he was on the list of coordinators on the up. But after some REALLY raunchy offensive football from the Steelers that season, he was, in fact, in danger of being fired by Cowher and they gladly let him go so they could promote Whisenhunt. Inconsistency is his calling card, and he has shown that at every stop.

 

As for picking the right one, that's one reason to favor coaches with winning histories or at the least guys who top young coaches will follow. Gregg Williams was NOT that guy. He was a bit of a darkhorse candidate coming in, and he OBVIOUSLY couldn't attract good assistants. Just another case of Donahoe outsmarting himself, thinking out of the box, despite obvious reasons not to(the good 3-4 Defense in place, for example).

 

I still contend that it's much more difficult to coach offensive football and manage the QB position than it is to be a top DC. If you can find a HC who either can do both OC and HC or identify someone who can OC, you are far, far ahead of the game. Then you just go out and find a good DC. Because of the sheer importance of the QB position, it's almost like offense is 1/2 of the game and ST and D are the other half. It may even be 60% of the game. It's definitely not even, especially with todays league emphasis on increasing offense.

[GG]

Mularkey was not a hot candidate when hired. The year before, he was on the list of coordinators on the up. But after some REALLY raunchy offensive football from the Steelers that season, he was, in fact, in danger of being fired by Cowher and they gladly let him go so they could promote Whisenhunt. Inconsistency is his calling card, and he has shown that at every stop.

 

As for picking the right one, that's one reason to favor coaches with winning histories or at the least guys who top young coaches will follow. Gregg Williams was NOT that guy. He was a bit of a darkhorse candidate coming in, and he OBVIOUSLY couldn't attract good assistants. Just another case of Donahoe outsmarting himself, thinking out of the box, despite obvious reasons not to(the good 3-4 Defense in place, for example).

 

I still contend that it's much more difficult to coach offensive football and manage the QB position than it is to be a top DC. If you can find a HC who either can do both OC and HC or identify someone who can OC, you are far, far ahead of the game. Then you just go out and find a good DC. Because of the sheer importance of the QB position, it's almost like offense is 1/2 of the game and ST and D are the other half. It may even be 60% of the game. It's definitely not even, especially with todays league emphasis on increasing offense.

 

You're using hindsight analysis to justify the good and the bad picks. But the decision is much tougher when you have to take a flyer on a new guy. It works on paper, but you don't know how the guy will perform when given the reigns. Kevin Gilbride was a master on offense and was great in bringing up QBs. Yet, Sean Payton was also nearly fired by Fassel. We can go on about successes and failures, but there's no denying that picking the right coach is more art than science. A lot also depends on who's already on the roster or if the coach is blessed with a good QB to build upon.

 

As an comparison aside, I was thinking about this yesterday - Lou Lamoriello will probably end up in HoF, because he's had the fortune that Marty fell in his lap. Doubtful that his boredom style of hockey would work if he had a rotation of Lalimes and Thibaults to build on.

[BADOLBILZ]

You're using hindsight analysis to justify the good and the bad picks. But the decision is much tougher when you have to take a flyer on a new guy. It works on paper, but you don't know how the guy will perform when given the reigns. Kevin Gilbride was a master on offense and was great in bringing up QBs. Yet, Sean Payton was also nearly fired by Fassel. We can go on about successes and failures, but there's no denying that picking the right coach is more art than science. A lot also depends on who's already on the roster or if the coach is blessed with a good QB to build upon.

 

As an comparison aside, I was thinking about this yesterday - Lou Lamoriello will probably end up in HoF, because he's had the fortune that Marty fell in his lap. Doubtful that his boredom style of hockey would work if he had a rotation of Lalimes and Thibaults to build on.

 

What you call hindsight I call past history. Learning from mistakes is important, as evidenced by the repeated mistakes the Bills have made the past decade.

 

I think it's important just HOW good a coordinator has been. The Bills.......they have chosen mediocrity or inconsistency. The brilliant GW was actually a middle of the pack coordinator except for his last season in Tennesee. The Titans were ranked around 15th in the NFL in total defense in the year of the Music City Miracle. The following season, they ranked high, but it was just ONE season at the apex of talent for that organization. Mularkey was inconsistent. Jauron was nothing special as a coordinator at all. That performance at coordinator really is HUGE. It shows that they can be excellent in at least that area. Past success lends credibility and gets players to buy in easier. Aside from being a branch of a great coaching tree, that's about all you can judge them on.

 

It is certainly an inexact science at least, but that's why you judge them on what they have done and who they have served under. In Payton's case, he got the blessed Parcells endorsement.