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(Full disclaimer: This is a long read. If I had more time, I would have written less. Skepticism is welcomed and encouraged, I'm not trying to preach to a choir nor posit speculation as fact -- the very nature of this topic demands speculation to some degree. Rather, I'm trying to start a conversation about a very serious subject that, no doubt, will be viewed by some as anything but. Discernment is the key, and to quote a far wiser man: 'it is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.' Let the conversation begin...) Introduction: Since at least July of 2016 (and I would argue since at least 2011) the Deep State has clearly, and loudly, been at war with itself. This war has bled through to the mainstream in various ways and stories from the coverage of Brexit, to Trump's victory and its ensuing fallout, to the proxy wars in Syria and the Ukraine, to the build up of forces in the South China Sea. We've seen bold assassinations, blatant false flags, extensive disinformation campaigns, and at least two attempted coups originating from within the IC of the United States -- all within just the past three months. As crazy as it's already been, recent weeks have seen a major uptick in the madness. There has been a clear and obvious escalation of this secret war, including the possible deployment of highly advanced, and highly secret, weaponry -- which would be a clear sign that the gloves have officially come off. And this appears to just be the opening salvo... Things are about to get a whole lot nastier. While this Deep State war is not being talked about in the mainstream media, nor is it acknowledged publicly by any heads of state, it is nonetheless the driving force of our current geopolitics and world events. Ignoring it, or denying its reality, binds us to a state of inaction and confusion. And inaction on this matter is death. Not just of the individual, but also of our principles. We are currently at a major crossroads as a civilization, not just as a country or system of government, but as a people. The way forward can only be found if we are operating from a place of truth and kindness, not disinformation and fear. Much of that truth has been meticulously hidden from us and can only be found by doing the work yourself. No one is going to do the work for you. Not the mainstream media, not the alternative media, certainly not your elected officials and representatives -- they all have skin in this secret and ongoing war whether they know it or not. It requires a great deal of discernment, time, and patience to sort the fiction from the truth. All of which are dwindling commodities in our modern world filled with electronic distractions. The aim of this thread is to cut through that disinformation and shine a light on the conflict going on behind the curtain. The powers that be have been stealing the planet out from under us for decades, slicing the pie up into smaller and smaller pieces between themselves. But now that there's no more pie left to slice, these factions have begun to turn on one another. War isn't coming. It's already here and will only escalate as we move through 2017. Despite this bleak declaration, there's actually a sliver of hope to be found. This infighting between factions of the Deep State has created an opening for us, the people, to finally retake control of our minds, cities, states, countries, and planet. But that requires us to realize the truth of our reality and the opportunity this conflict has presented us. We must stand together and loudly protest against those who wish to continue the decades of deceit and genocidal madness that's enriched the few at the expense of the many. Make no mistake, this is about "us versus them", but it's not about politics. It's not about republicans and democrats. It's not about race. It's not about creed or religion. It's about the light versus the darkness. This is as much of a spiritual battle as it is a physical one which is why bullets won't win this war, only love and truth shall prevail. Sounds cheesy and hippy-dippy, I know. But it doesn't make it any less accurate. You simply cannot get a positive from a negative. There will be a great temptation to view one side of this shadow war as the "good guys" and one side as the "bad guys". Tribalism runs deep and has been a tool of these factions for centuries to keep us divided and ignorant. The truth is both sides are working against our better interests. There aren't white hats and black hats within the Deep State. There is, however, a growing number of worker bees within the Deep State who have had enough of the status quo and are taking advantage of this infighting to distribute the truth to the masses. A last minute penance of sorts. These are the only heroes in this fight and even they are anti-heroes at best. None of what will follow is a condemnation of every single person in our cornerstone institutions or our national government, nor is it a call to burn the system down. It is merely a condemnation of the few giving the marching orders -- and those people are hardly publicly known and rarely operate out in the open. None of the following is meant to support the "west" or "the rest" or any such reductionist interpretation. My side is with humanity as a whole and the unfiltered truth as best we can discern it. The Players: Before we can really dig in, we must first better define the Deep State and which factions are warring with which. The mistake most people make when researching the Deep State's existence is to assume it's monolithic in structure: one group of individuals behind the scenes working in concert to steer world events in their favor. This has never been true and has in fact been a tool used to keep people from taking this topic seriously. The Deep State is instead comprised of many competing factions whose interests often don't align other than their desire to remain in the shadows. The Deep State is better described as a mafia with different families, each with their own agenda, methods, and means. Put in the most simple form, the war we are witnessing today is an ideological one pitting the Unipolar Globalists against the Mulipolarists. Both of these ideological factions are themselves divided and comprised of a multitude of subsets with their own goals, and both of these factions are represented across multiple agencies, nations, and corporations around the globe. Trying to reduce them down to one nation, one ideology, one agency, or one controlling group would be a disservice to the truth and a waste of time. Since the early 1990s, if not the early 1940s, the Unipolarist Globalist faction (Globalists for sake of brevity) of this Deep State mafia has been firmly in control. That wasn't a huge problem for any of the other competing mafias comprising the Deep State since there were more than enough spoils to go around. With the Globalists in charge and the other factions reduced to the role of remora fish, there were still plenty of profits to be had as the world's wealth and resources were systematically condensed into fewer and fewer hands over the course of the 20th century. Yet, the pie can only be sliced so thin before some groups begin to feel left out. The Globalist agenda stripped the wealth from the lower and middle classes systematically around the world, the most recent thievery taking place with the crash of '07. The events of '07 not only angered the population as austerity measures were forced on much of Europe and America, but they also reduced the amount of the peoples' disposable income. Income that had previously been funneled to other factions of this Deep State mafia in the form of recreational gambling, drugs, and other such vices. Whether or not this dwindling pie was the motivation or whether it simply gave the other factions the opportunity to rebel against the Unipolarist ideology is anyone's guess at this time. However this war started, what is undeniable is that the Globalist faction is under severe attack from at least one other faction of the Deep State, if not multiple factions. December 2016 -- The gloves came off: As they've become increasingly more desperate, the Globalists have ratcheted up their war efforts and have been desperately trying to engineer a massive global kerfuffle to distract the general population and delay the inevitable. What we have witnessed over the past three weeks can be described as the Globalists' hail-mary to stave off annihilation. Three recent news items make this case quite convincingly: 1) The assassination of NATO's auditor general on December 16th, 2016: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/747259/NATO-Auditor-General-is-found-shot-dead-in-suspicious-circumstances 2) The assassination of Andrei Karlov on December 19th, 2016: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/745321/Fethullah-Gulen-Andrei-Karlov-russian-ambassador-assassination-turkey-ankara http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/745348/russian-ambassador-ankara-turkey-nato-secret-service-putin-Frants-Klintsevich 3) The downing of a Russian airliner on December 25th, 2016: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/black-sea-plane-crash-no-sign-explosion-tu-154-russian-n701116 On the surface these three events don't seem to be connected. But once you dig a bit deeper you will discover that in combination these three events represent a clear escalation of the Deep State's ongoing shadow war. Two of these stories, Karlov's assassination and the downing of Russian Tu-154, were reported widely in the western press. The death of Chandelon was hardly mentioned at all. So, that's where we'll start: Assassination #1... In order to understand the Globalist methods, you first have to come to grips with the fact that this faction has been using the US military and intelligence complexes as its shell since the end of WWII. That's not to say this is where this faction started, merely where it's resided for the past half century. A unipolar global order demands a military force capable of projecting power anywhere on the planet. Since 1991 (really since 1944), the US has been the only country with the means and industry to make that possible. Using the US military and IC as the tip of its spear, this Globalist faction has been funding and deploying terrorist operations against its enemies and allies alike since at least the 1950s, if not before. From Operation GLADIO to supporting the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, the evidence of this tactic is overwhelming and abundant. You can, in fact, trace the roots of modern jihadism back to the days between world wars wherein the Germans (pre-Nazism though the Nazis continued this work) were radicalizing young Muslims to attack British occupying forces in the ME. This tactic has been a valuable and often used tool in the Globalist toolkit and continues to this day. This, for obvious reasons, is also one of the most controversial elements of the Deep State because it undercuts nearly everything we're told is truth in our day to day lives here in the US. ISIS, AQ, the Taliban are our enemies after all, there's no way the United States IC and Military would ever be involved, direct or indirectly, in funding, training, and deploying these radical killers simply to further their own geopolitical agendas... At least until you examine the actual evidence: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/3774 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-saudi-defense-congress-idUSKCN11R2LU http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-saudi-security-idUSKCN11D2JQ http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/qatar-continuation-logistics-support-services-and-equipment http://www.reuters.com/article/us-qatar-usa-jets-idUSKCN1175GQ http://fortune.com/2016/03/28/u-s-arms-sales-gulf/ https://warontherocks.com/2016/10/what-a-real-review-of-u-s-military-assistance-to-saudi-arabia-would-say/ http://www.ibtimes.com/clinton-isis-funded-same-money-wikileaks-assange-says-saudi-arabia-qatar-giving-money-2441644 http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hillary-clinton-wikileaks-email-isis-saudi-arabia-qatar-us-allies-funding-barack-obama-knew-all-a7362071.html That's not to say, in any way shape or form, that the Globalists created these terrorist organizations. Merely that they have used them as disposable proxies to maintain control of their portion of the global pie. Sunni radical jihadists are the favorite tool of the Globalists because they're easy to manage and even easier to disavow. Through cut-outs in Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey, and Qatar (and others), the Globalist faction of the Deep State has funneled billions of dollars in weapons and technology to these groups for the explicit purpose of spreading terror across not just the ME but Europe and the US as well -- both to keep the multipolarists (in this case the Iranians and Russians specifically) in check as well as to keep the general populations of the west in a state of fear and confusion. And to keep the MiC dollars flowing into their coffers. It's a plan that's worked near flawlessly for the past 15 years... Until the Syrian debacle. What changed in Syria? Quite simply, the status quo of the Deep State changed as this silent war kicked off near the end of 2011. The Globalists were first denied a coup in the Ukraine in 2013. ( http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957) They then decided to double down on their efforts in Syria, increasing the funding of the foreign jihadists streaming across the borders into Syria. This was met by stiff resistance from the opposing factions (including multipolarists in Russia and Iran) who leaked evidence that Turkey and NATO members were in fact profiting off the backs of ISIS's rise in Iraq through cheap oil: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-releases-proof-turkey-is-smuggling-isis-oil-over-its-border-a6757651.html http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-isis-oil-trade-from-the-ground-up These Russian accusations came on the heels of Turkey shooting down a Russian jet not two weeks earlier: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34912581 In the immediate aftermath of these accusations, Turkey began to do a 180 with regards to its relationship with Russia. Why? If anything, it appeared that relations between the two nations were reaching a tipping point where direct conflict was inevitable. This was a dicey situation for multiple reasons, not the least of which was the Article 5 implications. The Globalists pushing for a direct conflict between Russia and the West seemed like they had complete control. So why did Turkey suddenly do an about face? Could it be Erdogan was given a better offer from a different player within the Deep State? It's speculation, but considering the chain of events that followed it suddenly has more teeth. Within 7 months, Erdogan would survive a "coup" attempt after which he used said coup to distance himself from the Globalists in the west. Erdogan claimed the west, and the US specifically, were behind the attempted coup and continue protecting its mastermind in Gulen. The veracity of these charges seem unlikely if you don't factor in the Deep State into your equation, as Erdogan is clearly nothing short of an authoritarian dictator at this point. His word alone should not be trusted. But like I said, this isn't about good guys versus bad guys. It's about competing ideologies between bad guys and worse guys. With Turkey pulling away from the Globalist sect, NATO was forced to evacuate nukes from their base in Incirlik. Erdogan cracked down hard on his own people and constitution, furthering this divide and fueling the narrative that he is nothing more than a power hungry despot. But thanks to the Russian accusations and scrutiny from the world press at large, the illegal oil shipments through Turkey suddenly stopped. This was a significant victory for the multipolarists as it cut off a vital pipeline of untraceable funding for the Globalists various terror networks in both the ME and Europe. The response from the Globalists was swift and severe. While Turkey moved into a closer orbit with Russia, the audacity of terrorist bombings jumped: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2016/06/timeline-attacks-turkey-160628223800183.html Some of this, undoubtedly, is the work of the Kurds and Erdogan's own forces as he attempts to centralize his own authority even more. But several, including the largest casualty counts in 2016, were credited to ISIS forces who were likely sending a message to Turkey on behalf of the Globalists and specifically their terrorists operations ongoing in Syria. Which brings us back to the assassination of Chandelon, NATO's Chief Auditor. His body was found on December 16th with a gunshot wound to the head. He had several weapons registered to his name, but the gun that killed him was not one of them. Plus, the gun that did him in was allegedly discovered in the glove compartment of the car rather than in his hand... which makes the cover story of a common suicide a bit tough to swallow for anyone possessing even the tiniest bit of critical thinking skills. So, why was this guy suicided and how does it connect to the other two stories I've highlighted? We can start to answer that question by looking into what else happened on that very day, December 16th. That was the day 44 made his very public threat to retaliate against Russia for the still unproven and highly divisive claims that the Russians "hacked" our election process. In 44's own words the US promised to take action "at a time and place of our own choosing." http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/15/obama-threatens-retaliation-against-russia-election-hacking/95501584/ Assassination #2... Three days later, the assassination of Ambassador Karlov occurs. Cut-outs in both the Russian government and Turkish governments (in the form of Ankara's mayor and a Russian Senator) immediately pointed the finger at NATO security services as being behind this brazen assassination in an attempt to undercut the growing relationship of Turkey and Russia. Other agencies in the region pointed the finger at ISIS (which, of course, is by extension pointing the finger at the west). Whether the Globalist faction of the Deep State was truly behind this murder will never be covered in the press. Though it's impossible to remove them as a prime suspect due to the timing (three days after 44 publicly threatened retaliation) and their known connection to ISIS itself. Turkey has recently stepped things up further, pinning it once again on Gulen -- pointing out he is still being protected by the US directly. Putin went as far as to release a public statement claiming the attack was designed to undercut the peace process in Syria while various corporate outlets ran wild with the story, speculating it was a false flag designed to bring on WW3. One op-ed even went to extremes to paint the murder as a boon to the west: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/745348/russian-ambassador-ankara-turkey-nato-secret-service-putin-Frants-Klintsevich http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/don-cry-russia-slain-envoy-putin-lackey-article-1.2917281 http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/19/europe/turkey-russian-ambassador-shot/ http://indianexpress.com/article/research/why-assassination-of-russian-ambassador-andrey-karlov-reminds-many-of-how-world-war-i-started-archduke-franz-ferdinand-4436837/ http://www.activistpost.com/2016/12/russian-ambassador-killed-three-days-after-obama-threat-who-is-responsible.html That the Globalists have been itching to engineer a shooting war between Russia and the US is not even a secret at this point. HRC's campaign was built around stopping the bloodshed in Syria by instituting No Fly Zones -- which could only be accomplished by taking out Russian anti-air sites on the ground in Syria (meaning US pilots dropping bombs on Russian troops). That detail wasn't examined by anyone in the mainstream media during the election of course, so firmly do the Globalists control those institutions. So the motivation for a false flag assassination designed to elicit a response from Russia or Turkey, which would then give the pretext for the war these Globalists have clearly been begging for, does hold water. But that alone isn't enough to convince anyone. Until you plug Chandelon's murder and the downing of TU-154 into your analysis. Both are connected... The timing of Chandelon's murder and Karlov's assassination are too close to be anything other than connected. The rule of thumb in intelligence circles is that nothing is a coincidence. Chandelon, who was responsible for internal auditing as well as in charge of external investigations into money laundering activities and terrorist financing, was one of the few who would be in position to "leak" information on exactly this sort of wet-work operation should it have gone sideways in Ankara. That he was taken off the board the same day 44 issued public threats and a mere three days before a major terrorist event, should be a red flashing warning light to those people paying attention. Of course the assassination of Karlov itself has all the hallmarks of a Deep State operation, reminiscent of '63 in Dallas as many have pointed out. The lone shooter makes a public (and scripted) admission of motive before being gunned down as he fled. It's of course rather convenient that the shooter was taken out before he could say anything more or be subjected to any sort of interrogation or trial. Whether the assassin was a simple patsy or in some way mind controlled (yup, you have to leave that possibility open when dealing with the Deep State), we'll now never know. Despite the efforts to provoke a response from Russia and/or Turkey, the Globalists found themselves floundering. Neither Turkey nor Russia were taking the bait, despite cut-outs from both nations pointing the finger clearly at the west. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/745348/russian-ambassador-ankara-turkey-nato-secret-service-putin-Frants-Klintsevich The Globalists needed to make an even bigger play at poking the bear... The crash of TU-154... What's most telling about the crash itself was the Russian response. Almost immediately after the crash, despite the state of the wreckage and numerous body parts of the jet's passengers (note some of the language used in the initial crash site reports), an explosion or anything terrorist related was instantly denied by the FSB and Putin himself -- hardly before the investigation had even begun let alone concluded. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_RUSSIA_MILITARY_PLANE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-12-25-06-26-38 http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/12/flight-recorder-plane-crash-tu-154-black-sea-161227062229857.html http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/25/europe/russian-plane-tu-154/ As stated previously, the Globalists are not just based in the west. They exist in the Kremlin as well. It seems clear to me, based on the immediacy of the FSB's pronouncement, that Russia was going out of its way to eliminate the west or any of its terror groups as suspects. At least publicly. This would be necessary if Putin were facing pressure from the Globalists in his own country. Any admission, or even hint of terrorist involvement or western influence, would make it near impossible for Putin to ignore. The hardliners within his own government would demand a response. But when a response is precisely what the Globalists are looking for, it was simply not an option. So the Russians spun it as quickly as they could through their chosen state sponsored media outlets like RT and Pravda. This would at the very least buy the opposing factions within the Deep State time to gather evidence. Above Top Secret Weaponry... But then there's this little gem which came out three days after Christmas and is, inarguably, the most speculative bit of information I'm presenting at this time: https://israelinewslive.org/radio-electronic-attack-russia-tu-154-december-25-2016/ The article claims that an advanced "Radio Electronic Weapon" was used to take down TU-154. Before you scoff at this notion let's remember what happened to the USS Donald Cook in the Black Sea in 2014: https://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html The Cook, a 4th generation missile cruiser equipped with the previously impregnable and superior AEIGIS combat system was allegedly taken off line by a single Russian jet deploying a new electronic weapon. This event shook the USN to its foundations because the entirety of its fleet and NATO's missile defense platforms in Europe rely upon AEIGIS to maintain its superiority over Russian technology. If one plane could cripple one of our more advanced surface ships, what would that mean for NATO's ever increasing deployment of its missile shield in Eastern Europe? Back to TU-154, this sort of weapon would certainly be able to cripple a passenger jet and cause it to crash. It would be many orders of magnitude more simple in fact when compared to taking the Cook offline. The main point is, this type of technology exists and is highly classified. When the highly classified goodies begin to be deployed by the Deep State against its own, that's when you know the gloves have come off and things are about to get really nasty. Whether this top secret weapon was deployed by Globalist forces within the US/NATO or Globalist forces within Russia itself is impossible to determine at this time. And admittedly, the entire notion that such a weapon was deployed at all is entirely speculative. But when you combine these three seemingly unconnected stories together a striking picture begins to emerge: Forces within the Deep State are working overtime to engineer a war between Russia and the West, so far they have been unsuccessful largely thanks to counter attacks launched by opposing Deep State factions. Wrapping it all up: The Russian response to both the assassination of Karlov and the downing of TU-154 have been telling. There has not been an overreaction at all, instead there has been a pause. My assumption is that this pause is designed to give the multipolarists time to gather evidence and rethink their strategy. If there were a chance that the courts in the west would prosecute these Globalist ringleaders, I think we would see a response in the form of a disclosure like we saw of Turkey's oil smuggling operation. There might be a release or disclosure of the evidence that ties these men and women to both ISIS, the assassinations of Karlov and Chandelon, as well as the downing of TU-154 in this scenario. But since there isn't a court in existence that has ever shown an interest in prosecuting these Deep State members, another response is more likely. Namely, an escalation of the shadow war that's already raging. It may come in the form of assassinations of some of these ringleaders (we'll see these as "accidents" in the press, or medical emergencies), but it's most certainly not going to be in the form of troops marching across borders. If that happens, then you'll know which side has won. To that end it's time to stop thinking in terms of state actors and time to start thinking on a deeper level about these events. Let's see them for what they are, a war of ideologies between factions of this Deep State. ... Which is why this little bill which slipped through the cracks over the Holidays should be worrisome to all of us: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-24/obama-signs-countering-disinformation-and-propaganda-act-law

FEAR (end of a longer thread)

Sure are. It's fear mixed with weaponized ignorance. Bob still believes Russia/Trump was real -- "they just didn't find enough evidence to convict him". That's what they programmed him to think and believe, despite the absence of evidence and facts to support that position (and despite the fact that in order to believe that position in the first place requires a complete inversion of the entire system of justice in this country). Bob uses the tarmac as an apples to apples comparison, as an example, when it's anything but apples to apples. It's a poor comparison which demonstrates how little he understands about what is happening now and what happened then. He has no one but himself to blame for his continued ignorance though. No one.

This is historically false and revisionist. Slavery was intertwined with a host of other issues, but the majority of people fighting for the south did not own slaves, they never would own slaves. They also were not concerned about being “replaced” by freed black folk. There’s mountains of evidence to demonstrate this. Most Northerners were not fighting to end slavery, the abolitionist movement was quite controversial all the way through. It’s only in recent interpretations of history (pushed by dishonest historians w political agendas) which tries to frame the north as “fighting the good fight for all the right reasons while the south was fighting for all the wrong reasons.” The civil war was fought because the founders knew they could not address the issue of slavery in the revolution without tearing the whole alliance asunder. They delayed the inevitable to get past step one of the process: freeing themselves from the yolk of Britain. This is false. You keep citing the words of the elite/establishment/monied South, not who actually fought and died in the war. Why would any poor southerner fight for an institution that kept them destitute and assured they would never have upward mobility? The answer is they wouldn’t. The majority of Southerners were not driven to defend slavery, but to defend the ideals under which they fought the revolution for in the 18th century. Freedom from a central power. I disagree with those who say slavery played no role — it did. But only in the sense that it spoke directly to states rights and the fears of the Southerners (non slave holders) who saw the push by the north in economic terms — a threat to their way of life (not slavery), their economic history, and the rights they fought and died for several generations prior.

He led the Iranian backed insurgency into Iraq since the war began, he provided them with logistics, supplies, and intelligence. 2 out of every 3 IEDs on the ground which took out troops can be traced back to his hands (per boots on the ground in theater). We lost more Americans to the IRGC and its proxies than to AQ or ISIS. He also led the brutal crackdown on the Iranian people inside Iran the past two years (and longer). He also helped plan/fund the Benghazi operation. He also was heavily involved in the atrocities in Syria. Suleimani was the head of their IRGC, head of their intelligence services (defacto), as well as the "chosen" successor to the Mullahs should they fall. He was a MAJOR bad guy. Removing him from the board makes peace more likely, not less. He's not easily replaced because by his nature he was a paranoid SOB who had cut himself out a large swath of power -- and he didn't share well with others. This will help the protesters on the ground in both Iraq and Iran, it'll speed up the Mullah's exit. Will the Mullahs do something stupid in response? Maybe... if they can. But it'll be meek because we've been kicking their ass for three years with almost zero coverage of it in several theaters. Fear not. This was a good day for the world. Not a bad day.

Fear of the truth. Fear of being exposed as hypocrites. Fear of their coup being exposed to the public and being held responsible for the biggest scandal in US history. I'll keep going, thank you.

Fear. Gotta wonder how people on the left can continue to support this fear based approach to governance. But the ones here aren't big into thinking for themselves and thus are likely unaware of how weak, sad, and pathetic they look supporting these tactics.

It’s further proof of the fact that we are living in bifurcated realities. For the last two months, the country has been up in arms about the systemic abuse in our law enforcement apparatuses, crying about fascist police tactics — and yet, not a single one will stand and admit what happened here was the manifestation of those darkest fears. Abusive law enforcement and counter intelligence agencies, at the behest of the White House, sought to create false crimes and destroy multiple people’s lives in order to affect a POLITICAL outcome on the people. Not one of the people up in arms the last two months will even pause to consider how this matter fits into their greater cause. Not one. Two realities — one world. That’s not dangerous at all...

https://nypost.com/2020/05/06/faulty-coronavirus-kits-suspected-as-goat-and-fruit-test-positive-in-tanzania/ Faulty tests? Or ... something even worse? FEAR=control.

We have the power. Just have to fight through the fear.

You're full of it: They're pushing FEAR non stop over this drug. You're either blind, or being intentionally obtuse.

...How many people got sick from voting in Wisconsin again? (There was no spike, despite the hype and fear)

Yeah. Ignore the biggest scandal in the history of the county and focus on FEAR in order to help the criminals get away with what they did. Not to Trump, or Flynn — but to every American past and present. ***** off with that absolute garbage of a deflection.

The reaction was your logic in how they got that power. You said it was granted because of people's fears of DWI's which is blisteringly stupid.

Our rights don't exist because the state says so. They exist independent of the state itself. Thus, they cannot take them based on fear or current events. They must be given to them willingly. And that is done by manipulating the public into being too afraid to think beyond the moment. It's the oldest trick in the book, and it's on full display in our present crisis. Gotta be more brave than that.

Yes and no. I'm not a fan of the Patriot Act or mass surveillance in general, but the Patriot Act has been reformed many times since its inception, and there are still many layers required to get a FISA on an American citizen. But even with these protections in place, what we know for a fact is that the Obama Administration (and likely the Bush admin before them) were abusing the mass surveillance tools to spy on Obama's political opposition. He used these tools to spy on Congress ( https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/a-brief-history-of-the-cias-unpunished-spying-on-the-senate/384003/ ) , to spy on American citizens, to spy on his political enemies, and to spy on the media. If you've never seen this document, you should read it in full (with extra attention paid to pages 82-84). It lays it out in black and white. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf Apply that to contact tracing in our present situation. Or any of the crackdowns. It's the same formula: FEAR makes people do stupid things, like giving up their rights for security which cannot be promised.

I did answer them both. The government cannot force you to give up your rights based on fear, you have to do so willingly. As they did with the Patriot Act -- which was not designed to fight terrorism or stop it, but to extend the control of the state over the people. Full stop. FEAR is how they sell bad ideas like the one you're pushing. If you're not afraid, prove it and wise up.

We lost the fourth amendment to the Patriot Act, and still haven't gotten it back. All you need to do is look at the REAL story with ObamaGate to see how. Your fear does not give the state the right to take away my rights. Sorry. That's not how it works unless you have the spine of a jellyfish.

It might be if the data isn't complete or accurate. Making decisions based in fear is how more people end up dead or a bad problem gets much worse.

As I've said to 4mer many times throughout the last 2 years -- that's a completely valid fear to have. If you go just based on history and precedent alone, that is indeed the most likely outcome... ... Unless we are truly living in different times. If we are, and if the team around 45 is who I've been led to believe they are, then all those bets are off. But we'll see one way or the other soon enough. I'm still upset they pushed back from last fall to an election year as I thought that was an unnecessary gamble as who knows what could happen to derail it (cough - Covid - cough / black swan event), but sadly I don't get a say in their plans.

One of Trump's biggest flaws is his stream of consciousness style of speaking. It's so unlike anything the country has seen before from their politicians, let alone a president. Think back to every other POTUS press conference (regardless of occupant or party), they're all sanitized and handled. The moment a Clinton/Bush/Obama/Carter started to speak "off the cuff", there would be a handler right there to either usher them away from the press or (artfully) nudge them back on course. That doesn't happen with Trump. That is -- imo -- both a weakness and strength of Trump. It's a weakness because it makes it very easy for his political enemies (which every POTUS has) to clip seemingly damning sound-bytes and put them on blast for multiple news cycles until the public forgets the full context (if they ever knew it in the first place) and only remembers the damning words. It also is a weakness because the majority of centrists/independents/non-partisans (who are the majority in this country I still believe) who don't have time or the interest to follow the minutia of any news cycle, come away turned off or scared when they only see/hear Trump through the lens of these sound-bytes. But it's also a strength (imo) because as someone who values transparency, this kind of unfiltered access to the president's thought process is a breath of fresh air. It takes a bit of time and work to get used to his style, but once you do it becomes MUCH easier to understand what he's saying and why he's saying in the explosive way that he tends to do. He literally starts thoughts -- then stops in the middle of a sentence, changes topics (sometimes wildly) to use as an example of the point he was making (but had yet to land) -- then shifts back to original point/question without filling in the blank. But if you take the time to consider what he's actually saying in those breaks and leaps, it always tends to be less explosive/crazy than the jumbled version sounds at first blush. That's why, with Trump more than perhaps any other president, it's much more important to focus on the actual actions he takes over the words he says (or how those words are reported/circulated by the media). His actions, despite the hype and fear pushed by the messengers in our society, have been in line with an old fashioned centrist liberal much more so than a right wing authoritarian. Just my two cents.

What’s nasty, and really disgusting, is your lack of intellectual honesty, your lack of courage, and the fact you’re sucking up to the very people who’ve lied to you your whole life. You think that makes you “smart” because those people reinforce your (bad) ideas with praise as they slide knives into your back and take out your knees. You’ve proven that you’re a deeply stupid person. Take a bow, the. Go back to cowering in fear of inanimate objects until your masters summon you again.

You’re afraid of opening too soon — based on your morning posting of hysterics. You’re afraid of an inanimate object, a gun, because you’ve been programmed to be so. And you’ve spent (now) two days railing against guns while using home invasions as a reason to show why they’re unnecessary — which misses the point of the second amendment entirely (because your understanding of liberty, freedom, and what it takes to secure them is woefully shallow). Gee. It’s not like we JUST lived through an attempted back door coup of our OWN government’s making, and are, right now, living in a time when governors are stripping rights away from us under the promise of “security”. A smarter person, one not a victim of fear and MSM brainwashing, would understand now isn’t the time to make the case you’re trying to make because it’s NEVER looked so silly and shallow. But of course you’re just marching to the tune you’ve been programmed with without even realizing it... Sad way to live. But hilarious of you to share your lack of courage, reason, and logic with the class.

Your understanding of freedom, liberty, and what it cost to secure them is woefully shallow. You’re a victim of fear, and deeply programmed by those who wish to keep you subservient and dumb. And you’re showing, over and over in this thread, you lack the courage to think for yourself. Work on those issues first. Then we can refine your other shortcomings.

Still running from logic. Still pushing fear. Still protecting those who are enemies of humanity because he's too stupid and programmed to know better. Oops. From the ultra right leaning LA Times no less. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-stokes-assault-weapon-ban-20180301-story.html Again, keep pushing ignorance and fear of an inanimate object as if you're the smartest guy in the room. Then run away from your words, change screen names (again) and try it all again. Sad person, who's pushing the enemy's talking points without knowing it because he'd rather have his feelings validated than grapple with the truth.