SuperKillerRobots
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Disturbing article from ESPN on the Pirates.
Basically, the ownership is quite content to field miserable teams as long as they can generate the cash flow to make $20 million distributions to team owners.
This really makes you think when re-reading Mark Gaughan's article about the Bills ranking dead last in 2009 cap spending and 8th from last in terms of cash outlays.
From 1960 to 2010, Ralph Wilson's ownership interest in the Bills has grown by nearly 25% per year -- from $25,000 to a fair value of $900 million. This investment income far surpasses whatever current revenue is generated by big market cities from PSLs, luxury boxes, and other factors. Yet, rather than spend some of this money, the Bills -- like the Pirates -- seem content to generate profits rather than field a competitive team.
I got news for you: The only way he can use that $899,975,000.00 is if he sells the team or takesa loan out against it. It's all about cash flow, not team value. Your team could be valued at $1 trillion, but only bring in $100 million in revenues per year, which would put it well below what the Bills take in annually and there fore you would not be able to pay players, coaches, etc to the same extent the Bills can with their relatively low (for an NFL team) cash flow.
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If there is still a question at QB at the end of this year and they don't pick one in the 1st round next year - that's it. Either grab one with a top 5pick or trade up to get the guy you want. The QB search needs to finally end once and for all....
Assuming TE starts, I think he has to throw for 3500 yards, 10 more TDs than INTs, complete more than 64% of his passes, start and finish at least 14 games, and have the team in the playoff hunt down to the wire for the FO to not draft a QB in the first round. Brohm would have to show a lot of promise and play a lot, but unless he puts up those numbers as well, I doubt they don't take a QB next year.
It's hard for me to see any scenario in which a new QB is not drafted other than TE blowing up like no one could guess or anticipate.
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Potential? What "potential"? A Bills scout and Jauron saw potential but that's not enough for me. You say potential but I have not seen any in 2 years. Just because our pathetic scouting dept and tricky dick saw potential doesn't mean there is any. He's a back up OLB and special teamer at best. Get rid of him now and develop your own picks.
Good job BILLS and their scouts, another bust. I say cut him now and give his back up job to Coleman, who has man size and NFL strength to geter one. If I see maybe show boat, jump on piles, get knocked on his ass one more time I'll puke.
Not to be an ass, but I don't think the Bills care whether you see potential in any of their players or not (which is what I was talking about - not your opinion on him, or mine either for that matter). Also, Maybin is way bigger than Coleman, which was the biggest knock on him and probably the reason he wasn't drafted at all.
I'm all for cutting him if there is someone else that he would be taking a roster spot from, but that isn't the case this year, especially after Batten going on IR. They are going to keep 5 OLBs - Kelsey, Ellis, Torbor, Maybin, and Coleman and none of those guys have any serious competition. Next year when they lose Kelsey and possibly Torbor, they'll draft one or two OLBs and still keep Maybin as at least the fifth because there 'll be a clear 5 players better than everyone else, which will include Maybin. I think you do mor eharm than good if you cut him too quickly - he should get some opportunity to show what he can do over a few seasons.
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Since starters typically play the entire first half and in some cases part of the 3rd quarter in the 3rd preseason game, and typically play only a small portion of the final preseason game, the game this week will likely decide whatever starting jobs are still open. For the purposes of this discussion, I'm thinking about "who is going to be the starter on opening day", not "who is going to be the starter if/when everyone is healthy".
QB - I'm guessing Trent will play at least a quarter, but Brohm might get some reps with the first unit as well. It's either that or Gailey announces that Trent has won the starting job before the game even starts, and he gets all of the first team reps. I'm guessing the former.
WR - Chad Jackson will probably split 1st team reps with Steve Johnson. I'm putting my money on Jackson.
TE - Unfortunately, last man standing wins this job.
OL - doesn't appear to be any real competition here. If everyone had been healthy for the entire camp, Meredith might have been able to push Green. But since he's had to take most of his reps at LT, I don't see how the coaching staff can seriously evaluate how he hypothetically would perform at RT compared to Green.
WOLB - with Torbor possibly unable to go on opening day, looks like it's between Coleman and Maybin for this spot. I noticed Coleman getting some 1st team reps in the last game on 1st and 2nd down. I'm guessing that was after Torbor got hurt, and also guessing that's how it's going to be on opening day, assuming Torbor can't go.
SOLB - The coaches appear to be impressed with Ellis. Looks like he might have a chance to take this job from Kelsay.
CB - looks like it's going to start out this season the same way last season ended. Florence is the starter, and when they go nickel or dime, McKelvin plays the outside and Florence moves inside.
Returners - looks like they're going to start the season with McKelvin KR and Parrish PR. With the injuries at RB, they need Spiller to focus on that position for now.
QB - Trent's job to lose
WR - Steve Johnson's to lose - Jackson isn't going to get up to #2 - he'll be the 4th.
OL - Has been set since Gailey took over and Meredith has looked like a 5th round pick who got cut
JLB - I don't think either Maybin or Coleman are more than pass rushers at this point, so I would expect to see Ellis start on this side until Torbor comes back with Maybin/Coleman spelling in passing situations
SLB - Kelsey starts only because Ellis will be playing the Jack position week 1 in place of Torbor. He'll be starting at SLB by the end of the year
TE - too bad, but looks like Schouman gets cut and Stupar starts week 1
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I have my own time frame with Maybin but yours may be different.
At some point YOU have to cut your losses and move on...........
Personally, I give him this season and perhaps one more preseason to drastically improve, after that, SEE YA!
I am all for patience, but we need more from a #1 draft pick. It's money vs production
There is no right or wrong answer with a time frame to cut ties, it depends on your patience level.
Your opinion is important to me and I respect your thoughts on the matter.
GO BILLS!
-DIEHARD 1967
I think the obvious answer is at least after you've given him a chance to get on the field and do something.
I do think you have to give him at least this year and next year. If at that time there has been zero improvement (i.e. he's still playing primarily on ST and not getting into games on defense - even as a pass rush specialist), you'd have to look at cutting him. I think you have to give him as much time as you can because of his potential and also because we are going to need pass rushers. Personally, I'd keep him on the team as the 4th OLB until his contract comes up unless he is not playing at all on defense or we drafted someone markedly better. I do think an OLB will be drafted early next year in the draft (top 100 pick), but that still leaves us with 4 including Maybin (assuming Kelsey is not retained).
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Thanks for the quote and comment. Its a new defense, new coaches and new positions for them all so I imagine it wil be a pretty steep learning curve. I have to admit the improvement between week 1 and week 2 is remarkable, and I'm happy to see they acknowledge there is quite a way to go. Let's see if they keep improving.
The improvement really was something, wasn't it? Hopefully it keeps on going throughout the preseason and into the regualr season (and then into the playoffs...).
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Three guys have taken snaps at RT for the Bills this preseason, and this is what I've noticed so far:
- Kirk Chambers should be cut. The guy is not only a revolving door, but he was called for several penalties in the first game. Just not very good. Unfortunately we had to watch Brohm play with this guy getting killed at right tackle. Hopefully he gets a shot with better blocking in front of him.
- Cornell Green doesn't have very quick feet and it showed with the Colts speed rush. However, he looked great in run blocking situations. He's big and pretty athletic as well. If he stays injury free, he should be a serviceable starter for us.
- Kyle Calloway. This guy is a BEAST. I made sure to watch him in particular in both preseason games. Not only is the guy huge, but he's also quick and nasty. He finishes his blocks and buries defenders. Had a few miscues, but the outlook on him is very good. This guy will be a starter for a long time for us if he stays healthy. Great late round pick.
I agree - Chambers looks terrible and has looked terrible for two years in a row now. He did well that one year, but that was it. Maybe he's better at guard.
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He's not going to be a pro-bowler, come on man. I would love for you to be right, but he doesn't fit the scheme at all. I'm hoping he's serviceable at NT and can eat up blocks like people twice his size, but pro bowl is a little too optimistic. I was impressed by his play last night, but remember, we played a lot of four-man fronts to combat the Indy 3WR sets.
I expect them to play a lot of 4 man fronts all year and don't think KW to the Pro Bowl is that far-fetched. On top of that, when they do play him at the nose, they play him as a 1 instead of a 0, so he's still playing one gap most of the time.
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Yes it did. Spiller broke one for an extremely exciting TD. My money says he will do it again before the season starts, and ticket sales will increase. There is much good in this. I want the Bills to stay in WNY, and they will not if there is no profit in doing so.
That said, they still need a LT, RT, QB, and DEs that can rush the passer before they can win enough games to make the playoffs. Still, Mr. Wilson told the truth. He talked about making the team "exciting" around draft time and did just that. And, it will translate itself into bigger profits.
This post is NOT meant to be sarcastic. I admire Mr. Wilson. He is to be admired for being a financial success, and I respect the fact that he defended our great country. The man kept the only NFL Team I care about in WNY and I am truly grateful for this. And, I am happier to have Spiller than another dumbass pick ala Whitner or McKelvin.
Here's to the hope that next year, the Bills will select players who can enhance the abilities of Spiller and make the Bills a viable, strong contending NFL team!
Meanwhile, congrats Mr. Wilson on selecting a very talented player. And congrats to us loyal fans who got a rare and well deserved victory last night.
GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You should really thank Jeff Littmann. He's one of the premier up-and-coming financial minds in the country right now - and it goe sbeyond what he has done with the Bills.
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that was a pleasant surprise!
Happy Thoughts:
- Brohm just FEELS like the better QB than Edwards. He looks comfortable out there and has a rocket arm.
- Spiller was truly electric. I think Marshawn and Fred will make excellent backups.
- Coaching seemed more coherent than last game
- Run D looked good, though I can't tell whether that was the D's doing or Indy's ineptitude.
Unhappy Thoughts:
- Edwards, despite the long pass to Lee seemed a bit skittish and made some meh-ish passes.
- Still no pass rush on defense.
- Special teams still looks as if it's taken some huge steps backward.
Overall, they looked like a real NFL team out there. Why is that? I don't know, but let's hope they continue to build and improve on that effort.
I liked parts of Brohm's game and didn't like others - basically the same way I felt about Trent. I think the one thing that gamed proved without a doubt is that, regardless fo the order, the 3 QBs on the roster to start the season will be Edwards, Brohm, and Brown. Fitzy's time here is done.
The OLBs are still a little shakey (to put it nicely), but I think our d-line is going to be on to watch. Even McCargo looke decent out there! Those guys look good and are capable of collapsing the pocket given the time. Obviously none of them are going to get more than 3 or 4 sacks this year at best, but I think they will break down the pocket at the 3 second point consistantly. If someone steps up and can rush the passer, this could be a dangerous pass defense. I think the run d will get sorted out as the guys learn their assignments better.
It's nice to see a Buffalo Bills team win a game without playing boring football. When was the last exciting game this team played in? Was it that last win over the Pats?
- Brohm just FEELS like the better QB than Edwards. He looks comfortable out there and has a rocket arm.
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Did anyone see him chase down 4th string QB Tim Brandstater with two minutes left, get in on the tackle, then start yelling at him? Seriously? You're an unproven, disappointing-thus-far 11th overall draft pick, and your jawing at someone who's guaranteed to not be on the team in two weeks? Give me a break.
What the hell does it matter what he does ont he field outside of playing football? Not that I'm trying to say he played lights out or anything like that - he was average as a player and disappointing for a 1st round pick, but I don't get the logic of his enthusiasm making him a bad player. Maybe it just makes him an easy target. It's like the people who hate D Whitner because we didn't take Ngata.
What will be interesting is how Maybin develops on this team going forward and how quickly Nix looks to dump him if he doesn't improve, given that he wasn't one of his picks and isn't starting. I don't think expectations come into it for Maybin with this FO because they didn't take him in the draft and are probably just looking to see where they can fit him in. Maybe that says mroe about what they think of him than anything else - all these young players slotted to take over high profile jobs, witht he glaring exception of Maybin.
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Ellison is a goner.
With how bad our ST have been I'd b shocked if Ellison gets cut. He's one of the few people out there that look like they know what they're doing.
Surprise cuts:
Hardy
Fitz
Kelsey
Schouman
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I was curious about what Gailey said after the Jackson and Lynch injuries that we wouldn't be seeing a lot of the two back stuff and Spiller used as Gailey intended to use him and will use him when Lynch and/or Jackson get back.
My question is, why not?
Why have Spiller replace the RB position more than he has to, as well as deprive the other 10 guys on the field for the offense the chance to practice those plays and that style and that offense? I'm sure they will do a little of it, but I would much rather see Spiller play RB a portion of the time and have him play the Spiller position, with Bell or Simpson in the Jackson or Lynch role, and practice the hell out of that -- at least as much or more than Spiller just lined up at RB.
In other words, get Spiller in there in all the various formations and plays he wanted to just as if Lynch and Jackson were there, PLUS get Spiller more reps at straight RB in place of Jackson or Lynch.
The line and WRs and TE and QBs need practice on the offense we're going to actually run during the season.
Gailey sounded like he was scrapping that idea until the starters get back.
I was thinking the same thing. They should continue to practice the 2 RB sets.
But, I wonder how much they were actually going to use to 2 RB set in the preseason anyways, since I'd think you'd want to save it (or at least the best parts of it) for the first games of the season to get a jump on teams that haven't seen it yet.
I would rather see Spiller playing the Spiller position, but I think this might actualyl show us what to expect out of Spiller when he is actually running the ball. Of all the players that he's been compared to (Bush, Harvin), I think he might be the best true RB of the bunch (not to say he won't do the other things too, just that I think he could actually be a viable RB option).
I hope they're still practicing the 2 RB sets in the closed practices with Spiller in the Spiller position...
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I like the fact that he has FOUR three year olds.
That must have been one hell of a year! He got 4 chicks pregnant in 12 months.
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Oh yeah, the Evans fanboys are out in full force making excuse after excuse after excuse. Better this, better that...
Everything better but Evans.
Can SOMEONE please turn down the dumb in here? It's really too much....
It's bad enough the team stinks but when the fans fall madly in love with mediocrity, it's just gone real dumb. Much like the 'give Brohm a chance' fanboys. Boy we loves us some losers don't we??
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....
By the way, how much money does Megatron make compared to Lee?
Your post is crap and makes no sense. So unless everyone says that the entire team is terrible and everyone should be cut, they're "fanboys"? I get that people don't are down on the Bills, but why can't we talk about the players without being called dumb? Your sentiment is entirely legitimate, but why do you feel the need to Call people dumb for not towing your line? I got news for you, unless you're employed as a personnel evaluator for one of the 32 NFL teams, your opinion counts just as much as the OP, mine, or a horses ass.
By the way, Megatron averages less per year, but got a $20mm signing bonus (mostly because of his size). He has the frame to box out, but his hands are soft as metal.
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Really? That never happened either, huh?
Anyway, it may be an echo---Wilson repeats it every now and then. But even Chuck Schumer is having trouble getting behind it at this point. He must read Forbes.
Wilson, as far as I remember, never said anything about the Bills - he was talking about Buffalo.
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Ahh - kinda like the Black Rock and Hamlin Park sections of Buffalo
BS - I was just driving in the 5 blocks that constitute Black Rock yesterday.
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I agree. Take a look at the differences between that team and this team. The main difference in my opinion is that we were pretty aware that 2001 would be a rebuilding year after the 1990's and the last year of Wade Phillips as our head coach. 10 years later, it seems like we are starting again from square one.
I don't think I can consider it starting from square one unless we have a new QB in the picture. Made this is square 1.5 - or .5.
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I watched Cincinnatti/ Broncos last night and one of the announcers was going on about the great number of quality wide receivers they had and the difficulty they would have deciding which ones to cut. Frankly we don't have enough starters and we don't have quality backups. I think the time may have come to drop the players who aren't either starters or potential starters and grab high quality players in position of need..(LT, QB, WR, Defensive front seven.) We can't really afford to have a roster full of guys you wouldn't want on the playing field (hell we're STARTING some players who shouldn't be on the playing field. Without tackles you'll have five or six running backs injured before too long. Time to look to the only personnel pool available to us and scavenge among the players to be let go.
Where the hell are we going to get "high quality players in position of need" at this time of the year!? And since when does having poor tackles have anything to do with RBs getting hurt? I'm pretty sure RBs get hit on every play - regardless of whether the tackles are any good or not. I don't think you're more likely to get hurt when hit in the backfield as compared to 20 yards past the LOS.
Another thing, why would you think players that have been cut by other teams - just weeks before the season - will they be able to pick up our offense/defense in time to contribute this year?
They could definitely use some more talent though - just like your post could use some more common sense.
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I second all three of your points, Cash:
- Good for Harris
- Like him a lot
- and would have preferred him over Ellison.
It used to be when guys left Buffalo their careers would sputter and it seemed like a good move.
However, that was prior to the "aughts" and guys like Williams, Bannon, Leonhard, Wire, Fletcher, etc.
The only one who I'd like to see here still is big Pat. The rest of those guys aren't that good. I can't believe that after all of those years of people beating on Coy Wire, he makes it into a post about players we should have kept instead of let go.
By the way, it doesn't matter who of Kelsey, Harris, Ellison, McCargo, etc we keep this year because all of them will be gone after the 2010 season. None of them fit the defense we are trying to run going forward and none of them are good enough now to be worthwhile keeping for situational 4-3 looks, with the possible exception of Kelsey (but the more I see Ellis play, the mroe I wonder if he'll get the ax this season).
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If there's one thing that pisses me off the most about this recent rash of newbies, it's their tendency to post stupid sh*t as if it's been confirmed (or at least hinted at) by the organization, only to open up the thread and realize it's pure BS speculation.
This particular thread didn't fool me or anything, but still, would it be so hard to title the thread "Would we sign Thigpen if cut?" or something?
OP joined before you SATM
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I am optimistic for the direction the team is going to be taking under Nix and Gailey but like any other realist I am deeply concerned about the LT and QB position. Our plan at LT is apparently to try to hit the lottery and turn another UDFA or 7th round pick into a probowl LT. Good luck with that. Really, good luck with that. I hope somebody steps up.
QB is even more or a gamble. I get that they want to give the guys they have a chance in a real system with real coaching but the cupboard looks pretty bare. Even if 1 of the three candidates can step up mentally I am not overly impressed with any of them physically. Brohm is probably the best thing we have from a physical perspective and might have the best of a group of mediocre arms.
That being said I just can't agree with Nix/Gailey about not bringing another to guy to compete at the QB position. I think we really screwed the pooch on Jason Campbell as he has already in an even worse situation in Washington outperformed the motley crue we have. Troy Smith is another guy that could come in to compete. What is the worst that could happen? He PROVES that he is better than the fodder we have. How could that be a bad thing? His team mates and seem to think that he is more than just a back up.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/...ed-than-bulger/
I agree with your assessment that we need an LT and QB and I also hope that someone we currently have on the team steps up and fills either or both of those positions. I also doubt it'll happen.
I don't agree with the sentiment you express towrads the end of your post however. I think the way they looked at the QB situation was that if there was someone available that was amrkedly better than what we have, they'd go for him (like McNabb). When that wasn't an option, they figured that there was no sense in wasting a draft pick on a player that wasn't the long term answer. I don't think any of the 3 QBs we have now are the answer, but I also don't think eithe rof the two players you specifically mention are the answer either. What's the worst that could happen? Well how about the guy we trade for doesn't make the team? How about he makes the team and is terrible and we still have to draft a QB next year? If you think that these two guys are long shots to be so good as to you don't have to draft a QB in 2011, then you do it. Otherwise, it's just another TO signing.
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I really don't understand all the Chan Galiey hype. Perhaps, its because Dick boy was so bad? He isn't doing anything "magical" here at camp. He is teaching and stressing fundamentals, letting guys compete, and building a mindset to winning. That's what most coaches do! It may equate to winning more games but a coach still has to have talent. Man for man that is where the Bills fall short. That far outweighs any of coach Galiey's so called "magical solutions." Yes, we have plenty to be optimistic about but lets not blatantly disregard all the other aspects of evaluating a football team. Coaching albeit is important it is only one aspect to winning. I want to see the team win games before I start hailing coach Gailey as some super human coach. That's my take on things...
No one has done that int his thread. People are just saying that his approach is what the team needs and I agree. I don't even think it's possible to say a coach is "super-human" until at least after his first season.
I get it that chances are the Bills don't win 7 games this year, but does that mean we can't at least entertain the idea that they might? We can't talk about how it could happen? Does the mere utterance of anything positive about the Bills mean that people don't know what they're talking about?
In your post above, you use the words/phrases "magical" (in quotes like someone used it before you and your quoting them), "get on my knees and blow the guy like so many of you are", "magical solutions" (again in quotes), and then "hailing Gailey as some super human coach", while no one in this thread has used any of those phrases or really even come close to doing so. You're trying to start a fight by yourself and you editorialize like FOX NEWS.
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It's a two-receiver/two-back set, with Spiller motioning out of the backfield to the slot receiver position. You've get a tight end in on the left side for pass protection and as a possible 4th/5th receiving option if he releases.
WR Evans
TE Matthews/Nelson/Stupar
LT ??
LG Levitre
C Hangartner
RG Wood
RT Green
WR S. Johnson
RB Jackson
RB Spiller
QB Edwards
The defense wants to use a safety to double on Evans. They'll leave a CB in one-on-one coverage on Johnson, and the other safety creeps into the box for run support or added QB pressure.
Spiller motions out to the slot. Now what does the D do? Slide the safety out of the box into coverage against Spiller? That gets rid of the 8-man front, takes pressure off Edwards, and opens up room for Jackson to run. Let a LB cover Spiller? I don't think so. Stack the box against a Freddie Jackson run? Wide open pass to Spiller or Johnson. Go single coverage against Evans? Touchdown.
And just imagine of S. Nelson could block in addition to catching...
Whaddya think?
That would be a great formation/personnel grouping. This whole line of thought is what gets me excited for this upcoming season. We finally have a coach that seems to be good enough at what he does not coach to his player's strengths instead of his own strengths. I hope it leads to him having players do things they are good at instead of trying to force players into playing out of position or just giving them responsibilities that they aren't entirely comfortable with executing. A lot of these guys aren't good in the NFL because they are put into positions they aren't at their best in. If the coach puts these guys into roles that they can execute, I think we have a shot to be decent this year - at least better than people expect. Regardless of how well they do, it should be interesting to watch them.
Chan Gailey admonishes a group of fans
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
OK - admit it, you were the main offender in that group of fans heckling Trent.
I think what Gailey did has nothing to do with trent Edwards and everythign to do with building a team mentality. He's teaching the players to back up their teammates. It's called team-building. It's trying to make the team believe that they are all in it together and have a common goal. No one gets left behind. This is one action that those players who make the team will look at when Gailey asks them to come through in a certain situation.
Furthermore, every fan does absolutely have a right to boo and heckle as far as I'm concerned, but there is nothing that is said anywhere that the players have to say one word to the fans (like you alluded to, it's not Russia or China), so I'd say the team's reaction (basically Gailey;s reaction) was absolutely warranted. Do you think you should be able to go to a free practice to interrupt the team while practising by berating a human being to their face while they sit there and take it? Of course not.