finn
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Posts posted by finn
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Gives you a sense of how long it's been since we've been in the playoffs. I was in grad school, fifteen pounds lighter and with all of my hair. My three year old is 18 now. I never got him interested in the Bills, mostly because they have been awful all his life.
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What was surprising to me about the way the pick happened was very Un-Steeler like. The Steelers hardly trade draft picks and let the draft come to them. If it was the Steelers, they are sitting and picking a Evans or Beckham at their slot or even trade down. Whaley having been in that system; it was surprising to see him do that. The Bills gambled a lot this season and lost. THe QB position, the RBs and the Offensive play calling sucked. It is a shame that we did not have a single 100-yard rushing from any RB the whole season.
Here's an appalling thought: Maybe Whaley made the Watkins move in order to show he is independent of the Pittsburgh system, sorta like George W. Bush invading Iraq to prove his masculinity. He's protected for now because it's hard to accurately judge a draft so soon. But as early as next April, the sheer recklessness of his gamble may dawn on most fans. It won't be the abstract "next year's first-round pick" that he gave up; it'll be a dream guard, an exciting QB prospect or a fantastic right tackle. And we'll say to each other, "Ok, we gave up this guy AND this other pick who dropped to the fourth round for Watkins, when Odell--Odell!--was there for the taking?"
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Our own Preston Brown surprised me. He's playing like a first rounder.
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1.) One is a veteran, journeyman who has had these issues his entire career. The other is a young, inexperienced QB who had these issues in college and has yet to develop or improve them.
2.) Marrone was supposed to bring a dynamic, innovative offense. They initially tried the uptempo thing at the start of last year but the poor OL, inexperienced QBs and then EJ injury made them pull the plug. As for this year, not sure Orton is really the right guy to be running an uptempo offense.
But this is exactly why at least one and maybe both of them blew it. They brought in a scheme without regard to who was playing QB. A no-huddle offense with Manuel and this OL? It was absurd, as the results showed. To be fair, they adjusted, but at best they are doing a mediocre job, not a good one. In other words, they are not actively contributing to losses (not consistently anyway), but neither are they contributing much to success. They're just doing a more or less competent job at this point. Which I suppose is saying something, given Jauron and the other nightmares we've had.
Let's not kid ourselves: we're doomed until we bring back Wade Phillips and beg his forgiveness.
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Your reasoning is preposterous and suggests you think fixing a football team is something that is very easy to do. Whaley, on the whole, has made some excellent personnel moves. Did he get the entire team fixed? Every position? Well clearly the answer is no. But based on what he has accomplished in a fairly short period of time, I have confidence the OL won't be left unaddressed. Will he make the right moves and decisions? We won't know until it gets done, of course. But I wouldn't bet against it, that's for sure.
Unless I am mistaken here, the RT position was the most glaring need at OL, according to most. Fortunately, that seems to have been addressed. It wasn't with the draft pick we all assumed would be the starter, but give Whaley credit for not stopping there. I'll give you Chris Williams was a questionable call, but I believe he was chosen to be a veteran stop-gap. A guy to get us through this season, but with a pretty big upside if he didn't crap out (he is after all a former 1st round pick, and started all 16 games last year). His salary is a non-issue (at leas to us fans) as the Bills weren't up against cap issues. His signing prevented nothing. But bottom line, when it comes to the G position, Whaley had a bad year.
The Bills only have two true guards on the roster (well more if you count the centers). Do you have any question Whaley will be addressing that position in the offseason? Do you think he will just sit back, another season, and figure, we're all set at guard? Or do you think, with fewer holes to fill this year, guard moves up in the priority list? Based on the mistakes last year, do you think he is (or our scouts are) incapable of acquiring talented guards? Or do you think they simply had a combination of some bad judgment and bad luck last year, that resulted in this mess?
Whaley strikes me as a guy who really goes after his priorities and tries hard not repeat mistakes. Guard HAS to be a priority this year. So I will be shocked if they don't attack that position aggressively. Some might say QB is a bigger priority, but it is a position that is a bit harder to attack in the same way as G. If the Bills don't sign a bunch of bodies (draft, FA, trade, whatever) I will have agree that Whaley didn't get it done. I'm not a big believer in "if they don't sign player X then they will be doomed" when it comes to guards (or any position to be honest). Nor do I think if not drafting a first rounder means you are ignoring the position. But I expect to see quite a bit of action at that position in the offseason.
Straw man arguments. While you're at it, why not write, "Is he God? Is he immortal? Does he ride in chariots of fire?"
"RT was the most glaring need, according to most"? Most what? Most Jaguars fans? Doug Legursky and Colin Brown were the two worst guards in the LEAGUE last year. Their inept play was one of the biggest stories of last year's season. What does Whaley do? He signs a bust and a fifth round afterthought to fill the hole. But you think it's "preposterous" for me to not trust him this time around. You do know what the word means, right?
Here's what I think: I think neither Whaley and Marrone value the guard position highly. They seem to think any 300 pound warm body can handle the Suhs, Atkins and Watts of the league. They made the mistake twice now, even in the face of evidence that it was badly stalling their offense. What makes you think they won't do it a third time, especially since they have to spend money elsewhere. Why not go cheap again, slide Kujo over maybe, give Richardson another chance, save some bucks. That's not preposterous; that's their track record.
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"I have confidence this front office will address the OL issue. They have for the past two years. Some moves have turned out to be more successful than others, of course, But nobody can credibly claim the Bills have ignored the OL."
That's like saying at least the murderer didn't kill the WHOLE family. Give Whaley credit for other moves, but he earns an F for the offensive line, at least for guard, where it counted the most after last year's debacle. To fill a glaring hole he signs a known mediocrity (for a big salary) and drafts an afterthought in the fifth, who played like a bust. The predictable result: another year with the guard position pulling the team down.
And you have confidence he will do better this year because he didn't utterly ignore the OL?
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But they were right...both were there at 14
Can you imagine if they had signed Marino and Kelly? It would've been Montana and Young.
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Chris Williams signed a 4 year / $13.15 million contract with the Buffalo Bills, including a $3,500,000 signing bonus, $3,500,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $3,287,500.
his DEAD MONEY if cut after this season would be $2.6 mil
Malpractice. Especially considering the absolute debacle at guard the previous year. Whaley brings in some other team's bust and a fourth rounder as an afterthought. I posted some time ago that the collective wisdom of this board--collective, mind you--could do a better job than Whaley. Now I'm thinking any idiot with a fan magazine could do better.
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Chris Williams, Keith Rivers, E.J. Manuel... all busts. What do they have in common? Size, pedigree, athleticism. Because that trumps performance according to the Bills front office. (I won't say anything about Russell Wilson, I won't I won't!)
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If the Bills had won one more game, they'd be in the playoff hunt for real, and that would be sooo nice. If they had lost one more game they'd have a losing record and losses against the Packers and Patriots would have led to at least the possibility of a new coach and offensive coordinator. As it is, it's the worst case scenario: neither the playoffs nor a replacement for a coach hired because no one else would take a job with new ownership pending. So we're stuck with Marrone and (Can't) Hackett at least another year.
I don't favor constant coaching overhauls, but Marrone contributes nothing to winning, and Hackett has actually impeded the Bills' chances. My best scenario for coaching at this point: promote Schwartz to maintain continuity and bring in a big-gun offensive coordinator. But that seems like a pipe dream.
Why are we Bills fans again?
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Freddy churned out some yards after contact today though. He may be slow but he's strong.
And my #1 reason to get rid of this coaching staff is because of the misuse of players; no reason Mike Williams shouldn't be out there and no reason Goodwin isn't running fly routes off of play action and him and Sammy aren't running some screens a few times a game
And Urbick was benched half the year. That was criminal.
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I can't be the only one that doesn't care if our players make dirty hits as long as they're not penalized?
You're not the only one, nor are you only one who is despised.
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Give me a call on the 2014 D as the best in franchise history when they shut down an offense led by Rodgers, Manning, or Brady. Until then, the answer is NO for me.
I had the same thought, but consider that they really did play well against Brady this year, only Schwartz inexplicably rushed three lineman and had Duke Williams cover Gronkowski, which borders on criminal negligence on his part. If they pressured girly Brady like they have Vick and others, they would have shut him down, or so I thought. The other thing is, they did play him well otherwise, but once again the Bills offense was lame as could be. Consider this defense with the Bears '85 or Ravens 2012 offense and you'll see my point. They would be number one in every category.
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This defense, with this coordinator and this personnel, may be the best the Bills have ever had, maybe one of the best the NFL has seen in recent years. This view might be a consensus if they didn't have one of the worst offenses the Bills have ever fielded. With a competent offense (and coordinator) doing its part--making third downs, scoring in the red zone, giving the defense a rest and a lead so they could really be aggressive--these Bills would be ranked with the '85 Bears. The line, the linebackers, the safeties are all excellent, and the corners are above average.
Am I wrong?
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Well we all know what the reaction would have been if Whaley/Nix didn't draft a QB in 2013 and stuck with Fitz.
As for Bortles I think he has looked good at times but he's not franchise quality yet. Which begs the question, would we as a fan base ever be patient enough with any QB to develop?
Do you mean patience for a project QB? Fans were patient with Kelly (who did have two years in the AFL), and i think they would have been patient with Dalton and Tannehill, both of whom have showed a lot more than Manuel. I have a pretty high opinion of Bills fans as a whole; they are pretty knowledgeable. For example, they know the value of a good offensive line, obviously far more than the current management. I'm not sure agree that fans would have reacted badly by keeping Fitz, if only because cutting him meant eating his huge salary for two years. I think cutting him only made Nix and Whaley's original mistake (signing him to a mega-contract) worse, as others have pointed out. Why pay Orton AND Fitz? No, I disagree with PTR. Even excusing him from the Fitz fiasco, I think Whaley has fumbled the QB situation here. And now he has fewer options than ever, with no first-round pick.
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"Know for sure" is a pretty high standard for any pick, let alone a quarterback. I just think--guess, believe, based on his overall performance so far--Bortles will be good. My beef with Whaley is that he panicked and picked Manuel, a project at best, a bust at worst, with a first-round pick that could have used for a player (guard, anyone?) or used in a deal for a very high pick the following year (Bortles). You can defend him by saying his job was on the line, but that's hardly a defense. He did not need to choose a qb in that weak class. He should have bided his time.
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Define "available." Whaley gave up the farm for a wide receiver. He could have done the same for Bortles, who I think will be terrific.
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Maybe we will fool the world and run off tackle.
I would need a change of underwear
Or how about--gasp--a play-action pass? Even one would shock everyone, including our own players.
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I want to see THIS defense against the top 3 QBs. I think this defense, with AW at safety and Bradham/Preston Brown will show differently against Pats.
We've already seen this defense against Brady. The players showed up; Schwartz did not. Rushing three against Brady and covering Gronkowski with a second-string safety. THAT'S going to work.
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I do think trading up at that price can be justified, even for a WR, but not in the most loaded draft for receivers in NFL history, and not when the team has no quarterback or line (or coaches who can help make up the difference instead of adding to it). The original poster is correct: the Bills messed up. They should have traded DOWN, picked up Beckam and picked up a quality guard. Instead, Whaley got cute. He fell in love with Watkins like the most sophomoric fantasy footballer and traded away a goldmine on the gamble that E.J. Manuel, Doug Marrone and one of the worst lines in the history of football would take us to the playoffs.
Here's the thing: Watkins is the real deal, and every time he shows it fans will applaud Whaley. But Beckam and Benjamin are also studs, and we could have had one of them AND our fourth round pick AND our first round next year. (Or Evans at a much less steep price.) So don't buy the line that if Watkins is great Whaley was right. He wasn't right. He was wrong. Even a HOF career from Watkins won't justify this blunder.
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I don't think the owners are rigging the game, but the game is not as fair as most people think. First, refs are in fact biased because they're human and are subject to the same pressures everyone else is. You can find a persuasive account of how in a book called Sportscasting. Second, some NFL refs may be corrupt. I'm not claiming it's true hands down, but corruption in the World Cup tournament is so endemic that you can't rule it out in the NFL. These NFL guys are not full-time refs, and like everyone else they're susceptible to blackmail and other persuasive measures. When huge money is on the table, integrity is not high on everyone's list of values. I'm sounding cynical, but I think the only factor holding back big-scale corruption is fear of losing the whole enchilada: big greed is trumping small greed. For now.
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It's a message board. 99% of all posts are conjecture and opinion.
Our guard play has been terrible. Marrone insisted on moving a OT to OG who had never played before and has been terrible for eight weeks. Played a rookie 5th rounder who inarguably was not ready. Played another rookie OT who has been godawful since he started at OG at practice with the ones. Then plays Urbik who has been serviceable and voila he's serviceable if not decent.
That could be construed as being stubborn.
There is no known reason to not play Mike Williams. Whaley insisted MW has never been a problem and avoided the question when I asked him why he wasn't playing. We are lacking the one thing MW clearly does well and has proven too. Marrone even said I believe that he had a good week of practice.
There is reason to wonder if these two scenarios may reflect one another.
Why "stubborn"? Why not "inept" or "incompetent"? Between last year's left-guard debacle and this year's idiocy, I don't understand why Marrone gets any support at all. What's to like? Really, I ask in earnest. What has he done that any NFL position coach, chosen at random, could not do? At best, he's like Orton: he won't lose you games. But can't we do better than that? Imagine a coach that actually helped WIN games. Am I missing something?
Quit making sense!!!! Haters of marrone just wanna hate hate hate
That could be a reason and I'm not saying it's not the case, it's the repetition that is tiresome, like every 2 post in a same thread speaks of Marrone's stubbornness.
Let's explore another possible scenario with Urbik (totally applicable to Mike Williams case):
Lets go back to training camp, where all jobs are up for grabs, Urbik is not the greatest guy on practice, he is probably better than Pears and Richardson, but he doesn't have the fire or shows the fire to earn the spot on the starting team. Meanwhile the coach moves some of the parts and gives the job to those that earn it on the practice field.
Marrone sets Urbik asides and tells him that he's the better player but that before he gives the job to him he needs to see better effort, otherwise the guys busting their balls for it would not care if the guy horsing around or not caring gets the job, why have practice in the first place?
Urbik sees his teammates failing and tells to himself that he has been selfish and realizes that he has to go back and his attitude towards his role on the team changes.
Marrone wants his players to earn playing time.
I will copy and paste this one, every time people calls Marrone stubborn about not playing Urbik.
Do you really think scenario, even if true, absolves Marrone? Do you mean to say that it's worth playing a rookie not close to ready--and suffer badly for it--just to make a point about effort in training camp? Maybe you bench the better player for a game to make your point, but not half the season. A competent coach doesn't need to hurt the team badly to motivate players.
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I joined this thread too late. I don't have time to read 17 pages. So if somebody mentioned Mark Rypien before, excuse me. That guy was a statue, but Washington built a wall in front of him, and he got sacked 8 times all year. And throttled the Bills in the Super Bowl.
Put a wall in front of KO and see what happens.
I'm with you. I would give Orton the extension and go all in on the O-line, the only serious weakness on the team. Yes, it would be gamble, but what is the alternative? E.J. Manuel, Take Two? Another vet? A second round developmental project? With a strong running game and excellent protection, you don't need Orton at his absolute best to make the Bills a top-ten team, especially with this defense and wide receiver corps. They're ready now, in fact, except (a huge except) for what might be the worst line in franchise history. It's a stretch to hope that this coaching staff could pull together a line with what they have to work with (although I fantasize about a Hairston-Glenn-Wood-Urbick-Kujo scenario), but between free agency, the draft and maybe some development of the young guys, it's reasonable to think they might pull it off next year and go deep into the playoffs. But, yes, it starts with resigning Orton.
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I've had similar thoughts. Look at Gilmore's almost-break up of the pass in the endzone a few games ago. Does it really make sense to say, as many commentators did, that a great DB breaks that pass up and a not-great DB doesn't? Gilmore arm was between the receiver's arms--it was an extraordinary exhibition of athleticism on both players' parts. Now, maybe his not making the play and the WR making the play shapes how each of them develops from that point on, but I don't agree that Gilmore's failure to break up the pass makes him any less of a player than a DB who does break it up.
I think I'll be in the small minority on this one, however...
Where were you 15 years ago?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Gas was $1.22 a gallon. The Matrix was a big hit. Bill Clinton was president. On the Bills roster: Kamil Loud, Jerry Ostroksi, John Fina, Gabe Northern, Thurman Thomas... That was a long time ago, folks.